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Post by Pixie on Jun 14, 2017 9:20:46 GMT -5
Is this 15 years of legal/post law school employment? I have been out of law school and in the same position for 9 years. Going back to college would mean all the mall jobs I held over the summer--and supervisor names I couldn't remember... I think your quoted message didn't work out as you intended. I doubt that it was Gary who asked the question. Quoting posters can be tricky, and often takes a bit of getting familiar with the process. * Pixie _____________ * Even though I was well outside the "quote" it still appears that Cookie said what I posted. Sometimes there is just nothing that can be done about it, especially if there is a screw up by one of the initial posters.
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Post by gary on Jun 14, 2017 9:30:37 GMT -5
cookie, the form requests you to: "List all employment dating back 15 years, starting with the current or most recent. Note any times of unemployment or gaps in employment. It is also important that your rating supervisor’s name, not a professional colleague’s, is listed. If you are currently self-employed, or you were at any time during the last 15 years, please complete as much information as you can and provide any additional information on page 5 or on a separate sheet if necessary."
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Post by jonsnow on Jun 14, 2017 9:37:37 GMT -5
And I assume there is a way to indicate if your only supervisor at a former place of employment is either no longer with us or is unavailable to be contacted due to other circumstances (let's say they are in prison).
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Post by gary on Jun 14, 2017 9:43:25 GMT -5
And I assume there is a way to indicate if your only supervisor at a former place of employment is either no longer with us or is unavailable to be contacted due to other circumstances (let's say they are in prison). I don't see a place on the form to put a former employer's prisoner number. The form does say: "If former Supervisor is not with this employer please provide current contact information. If you were self-employed, provide the name of an individual who can speak of your past performance history." There's also a blank page for additional employment history you might be able to use for an explanation if you need it.
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Post by jonsnow on Jun 14, 2017 9:47:50 GMT -5
And I assume there is a way to indicate if your only supervisor at a former place of employment is either no longer with us or is unavailable to be contacted due to other circumstances (let's say they are in prison). I don't see a place on the form to put a former employer's prisoner number. The form does say: "If former Supervisor is not with this employer please provide current contact information. If you were self-employed, provide the name of an individual who can speak of your past performance history." There's also a blank page for additional employment history you might be able to use for an explanation if you need it. Thanks.
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Post by mrmojo on Jun 14, 2017 9:58:23 GMT -5
And I assume there is a way to indicate if your only supervisor at a former place of employment is either no longer with us or is unavailable to be contacted due to other circumstances (let's say they are in prison). I don't see a place on the form to put a former employer's prisoner number. The form does say: "If former Supervisor is not with this employer please provide current contact information. If you were self-employed, provide the name of an individual who can speak of your past performance history." There's also a blank page for additional employment history you might be able to use for an explanation if you need it. This is a concern for me. Post-law school I had a number of short (2-3 month) document review positions. Not only do I not recall who my supervisors were, I was hardly there long enough for there to be any performance rating/etc. In addition, I don't even know who I would contact to try to find out who supervisors were at the time.
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Post by cookie on Jun 14, 2017 12:12:16 GMT -5
I think your quoted message didn't work out as you intended. I doubt that it was Gary who asked the question. Quoting posters can be tricky, and often takes a bit of getting familiar with the process. * Pixie _____________ * Even though I was well outside the "quote" it still appears that Cookie said what I posted. Sometimes there is just nothing that can be done about it, especially if there is a screw up by one of the initial posters. I apologize! There had been a string of Q&A and I was trying to clean it up, but made it inaccurate.
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Post by rp on Jun 14, 2017 13:14:32 GMT -5
cookie , the form requests you to: "List all employment dating back 15 years, starting with the current or most recent. Note any times of unemployment or gaps in employment. It is also important that your rating supervisor’s name, not a professional colleague’s, is listed. If you are currently self-employed, or you were at any time during the last 15 years, please complete as much information as you can and provide any additional information on page 5 or on a separate sheet if necessary." Ok gary -- I am sure you have already answered this -- but -- let's say your current supervisor is not someone you could count on to give you a good reference -- for whatever reason (fill in the blank -- the bottom line is -- even though you may get along with this person quite well -- you are just not certain you will get what you need from them) -- how would you handle that? Let's also say that there is another person that was your supervisor just before your current supervisor and is now a colleague and is ready willing and able to give you a glowing reference and that you have other supervisors going back 15 years to do the same. Thoughts?
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Post by gary on Jun 14, 2017 13:32:18 GMT -5
cookie , the form requests you to: "List all employment dating back 15 years, starting with the current or most recent. Note any times of unemployment or gaps in employment. It is also important that your rating supervisor’s name, not a professional colleague’s, is listed. If you are currently self-employed, or you were at any time during the last 15 years, please complete as much information as you can and provide any additional information on page 5 or on a separate sheet if necessary." Ok gary -- I am sure you have already answered this -- but -- let's say your current supervisor is not someone you could count on to give you a good reference -- for whatever reason (fill in the blank -- the bottom line is -- even though you may get along with this person quite well -- you are just not certain you will get what you need from them) -- how would you handle that? Let's also say that there is another person that was your supervisor just before your current supervisor and is now a colleague and is ready willing and able to give you a glowing reference and that you have other supervisors going back 15 years to do the same. Thoughts? You may tell SSA not to contact your current supervisor. If you do that they want you to provide your most recent performance appraisal. You can list the colleague as a personal reference if you want.
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Post by rp on Jun 14, 2017 13:34:32 GMT -5
Ok gary -- I am sure you have already answered this -- but -- let's say your current supervisor is not someone you could count on to give you a good reference -- for whatever reason (fill in the blank -- the bottom line is -- even though you may get along with this person quite well -- you are just not certain you will get what you need from them) -- how would you handle that? Let's also say that there is another person that was your supervisor just before your current supervisor and is now a colleague and is ready willing and able to give you a glowing reference and that you have other supervisors going back 15 years to do the same. Thoughts? You may tell SSA not to contact your current supervisor. If you do that they want you to provide your most recent performance appraisal. You can list the colleague as a personal reference if you want. Many thanks -- now follow up question -- sorry! My "most recent performance appraisal" was done by my last supervisor and is 2 years old. Because I am at the top of the pay grade -- apparently those are no longer done (not a good idea IMHO). So do I give them that one? Thanks again gary for putting up with us all. *Edit -- and especially me.
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Post by gary on Jun 14, 2017 13:40:46 GMT -5
You may tell SSA not to contact your current supervisor. If you do that they want you to provide your most recent performance appraisal. You can list the colleague as a personal reference if you want. Many thanks -- now follow up question -- sorry! My "most recent performance appraisal" was done by my last supervisor and is 2 years old. Because I am at the top of the pay grade -- apparently those are no longer done (not a good idea IMHO). So do I give them that one? Thanks again gary for putting up with us all. *Edit -- and especially me. That part of the form (with prettier formatting) reads: "Can we contact your current Supervisor? Yes No If "No", please provide your most recent performance appraisal. Performance Appraisal included? Yes No" It doesn't seem to limit how old that appraisal is.
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Post by rp on Jun 14, 2017 13:43:55 GMT -5
Many thanks -- now follow up question -- sorry! My "most recent performance appraisal" was done by my last supervisor and is 2 years old. Because I am at the top of the pay grade -- apparently those are no longer done (not a good idea IMHO). So do I give them that one? Thanks again gary for putting up with us all. *Edit -- and especially me. That part of the form (with prettier formatting) reads: "Can we contact your current Supervisor? Yes No If "No", please provide your most recent performance appraisal. Performance Appraisal included? Yes No" It doesn't seem to limit how old that appraisal is. Again - my thanks.
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Post by backtoeden on Jun 14, 2017 16:08:19 GMT -5
My "supervisor" from a firm I worked at for a brief period of time is retired and there is no contact info listed in the bar directory. The form has a place for an alternate rater, but I only worked there for a period of months, and I was never rated. No one there can really speak about my skills, and the most anyone there would do is verify dates of employment.
I was thinking I would list someone else outside of the firm who can speak to my capabilities as an attorney during that time. Would this be an acceptable substitute?
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Post by legalbythesea on Jul 12, 2017 20:21:14 GMT -5
Dear ___: Thank you so much for agreeing to be a reference for me. My understanding is that the Social Security Administration contracts with an organization to call the references. You can either talk to them by telephone, or they can e-mail you the questions and you can e-mail back your answers. I learned that the following are the questions that were asked of references last time SSA hired ALJs. Of course I want you to answer candidly and truthfully. However, as a reminder, I've known you since ____...... (fill in with any details that will help your reference answer the questions.)) How long have you known the candidate? What is the type and frequency of your association?. Based on your knowledge, is the applicant a respected member of the legal community? Why? How would you describe his/her expertise and professional qualifications? What in your opinion are his/her strengths and weaknesses? {{Note: this is a trick question!! You don't really have to say I have any weaknesses}} What is your understanding of the applicant's typical workload? What percent of the applicant's work schedule would you estimate is spent in the court room? How would you describe his/her interaction with others? Does the applicant display adherence to professional standards of conduct, reliability and diligence to discharge their professional responsibility? SSA is looking for an applicant who is ethical, hardworking and knowledgeable about the law and procedure. In your opinion, does the applicant have this capability? The position of Administrative Law Judge requires applicant be capable of managing and adjudicating up to 700 cases per year. In your opinion, does applicant have this capability? Would you recommend this applicant for a position as an Administrative Law Judge? Why/Why not? Is there any other information which would be helpful to SSA in making a decision on the applicant's qualifications? I understand that the people contracted to do reference checks simply record the answers, and probably would not be able to answer your questions, such as what does the "700 cases per year" mean. I've learned that sometimes people respond to this type of question, "If anyone can do that heavy of a caseload, ___ can", or "____ is very diligent, and is sure to get the job done." I used a version of this, although altered a bit, for a few references, because it seemed like a good idea. Now I am having self doubts about whether references might find this advice offensive in some way since it almost suggests that they couldn't figure out on their own how to respond to a reference check. Does anyone else feel this way about this? Or is it a case of my over analysis?
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Post by rp on Jul 12, 2017 20:23:23 GMT -5
Dear ___: Thank you so much for agreeing to be a reference for me. My understanding is that the Social Security Administration contracts with an organization to call the references. You can either talk to them by telephone, or they can e-mail you the questions and you can e-mail back your answers. I learned that the following are the questions that were asked of references last time SSA hired ALJs. Of course I want you to answer candidly and truthfully. However, as a reminder, I've known you since ____...... (fill in with any details that will help your reference answer the questions.)) How long have you known the candidate? What is the type and frequency of your association?. Based on your knowledge, is the applicant a respected member of the legal community? Why? How would you describe his/her expertise and professional qualifications? What in your opinion are his/her strengths and weaknesses? {{Note: this is a trick question!! You don't really have to say I have any weaknesses}} What is your understanding of the applicant's typical workload? What percent of the applicant's work schedule would you estimate is spent in the court room? How would you describe his/her interaction with others? Does the applicant display adherence to professional standards of conduct, reliability and diligence to discharge their professional responsibility? SSA is looking for an applicant who is ethical, hardworking and knowledgeable about the law and procedure. In your opinion, does the applicant have this capability? The position of Administrative Law Judge requires applicant be capable of managing and adjudicating up to 700 cases per year. In your opinion, does applicant have this capability? Would you recommend this applicant for a position as an Administrative Law Judge? Why/Why not? Is there any other information which would be helpful to SSA in making a decision on the applicant's qualifications? I understand that the people contracted to do reference checks simply record the answers, and probably would not be able to answer your questions, such as what does the "700 cases per year" mean. I've learned that sometimes people respond to this type of question, "If anyone can do that heavy of a caseload, ___ can", or "____ is very diligent, and is sure to get the job done." I used a version of this, although altered a bit, for a few references, because it seemed like a good idea. Now I am having self doubts about whether references might find this advice offensive in some way since it almost suggests that they couldn't figure out on their own how to respond to a reference check. Does anyone else feel this way about this? Or is it a case of my over analysis? Over analysis! I sent a similar thing to all my references yesterday. To a person -- they all said thanks. And three of them are federal judges. Just sayin.....They want to help you....so whatever they need to do to help you is what they will do. If not -- I would seriously question whether you should list them.
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Post by legalbythesea on Jul 12, 2017 20:31:11 GMT -5
I used a version of this, although altered a bit, for a few references, because it seemed like a good idea. Now I am having self doubts about whether references might find this advice offensive in some way since it almost suggests that they couldn't figure out on their own how to respond to a reference check. Does anyone else feel this way about this? Or is it a case of my over analysis? Over analysis! I sent a similar thing to all my references yesterday. To a person -- they all said thanks. And three of them are federal judges. Just sayin.....They want to help you....so whatever they need to do to help you is what they will do. If not -- I would seriously question whether you should list them. That's great to hear! I received radio silence so far. But as long as they respond if contacted I suppose that's all that counts.
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Post by gary on Jul 12, 2017 20:31:39 GMT -5
I used a version of this, although altered a bit, for a few references, because it seemed like a good idea. Now I am having self doubts about whether references might find this advice offensive in some way since it almost suggests that they couldn't figure out on their own how to respond to a reference check. Does anyone else feel this way about this? Or is it a case of my over analysis? Over analysis! I sent a similar thing to all my references yesterday. To a person -- they all said thanks. And three of them are federal judges. Just sayin.....They want to help you....so whatever they need to do to help you is what they will do. If not -- I would seriously question whether you should list them. I let all my references know I had what I understood were the questions references are asked. I asked them if they wanted me to send them. Most wanted them. Some declined. I figured especially with the judges it was best to give them the choice rather than just send them.
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Post by rp on Jul 12, 2017 20:36:53 GMT -5
Over analysis! I sent a similar thing to all my references yesterday. To a person -- they all said thanks. And three of them are federal judges. Just sayin.....They want to help you....so whatever they need to do to help you is what they will do. If not -- I would seriously question whether you should list them. I let all my references know I had what I understood were the questions references are asked. I asked them if they wanted me to send them. Most wanted them. Some declined. I figured especially with the judges it was best to give them the choice rather than just send them. gary has a good point. I didn't ask though -- I just told them I would send it to them so they had an idea what the issues were so I didn't give them a choice. All were extremely supportive. I had one say -- tongue in cheek -- "well when asked if there he has any weaknesses I say -- he can't always hit a single when there is a runner in scoring position -- but I will do it your way this time." The long and the short of it is -- I think they will be fine if they support you. I will say -- I have followed up with all of them to make sure they got them and ask them if they had any questions. So -- if you are feeling anxious about the radio silence -- call them and ask.
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Post by corvette1963 on Jul 13, 2017 8:41:46 GMT -5
I need some advice. One of my former supervisors who I worked for from 3/2007-8/2008 in an agency said that she doesn't really recall much about my work and could be a "general reference" about my ethics and professionalism but probably not my best reference. The reason I left the agency is that she is really not a nice person and can be very harsh and critical. Suffice to say that all my supervisors for the past 15 years (with her being the exception) will give me glowing recommendations for all the questions and I have 3 ODAR judges (one being a Chief) in my corner. I was honest with her and asked if she felt comfortable recommending me for an ALJ and her response was that she "probably wouldn't be my best reference." I'm thinking "WTF". She is no longer with that agency and even my senior rater (the Commissioner) has left (although I could probably find her but time is running out). HELP!
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Post by msp on Jul 13, 2017 9:35:56 GMT -5
It sounds like you've got all of the pieces in place for positive recommendations. One person out of that group who won't give a glowing report shouldn't sink you.
Give the hiring folks the benefit of the doubt to see the big picture. No doubt you're anxious, as am I, having made this set of cents. But try not to lose the forest for the trees and you'll be just fine.
Now get in there and crush that interview!
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