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Post by privateatty on May 14, 2010 7:56:48 GMT -5
Observer: I am still so confused about this process. If you are selected to interview, do you get to give any sort of ranking as to which cities you would prefer over others you chose on your GAL? I thought there was only one interview left, but your post says "if you do well on the interview for a particular location, you can be hired over someone with a lower score." This implied to me that we will be interviewed more than once. Can someone please help me out? Thanks. No. If you get on a SSA cert you will get a list of cities available for hires that you have indicated you would go to from your OPM GAL. There is no ranking as to GAL. There is an interview with OPM called a SI and then SSA will interview you if yoiu have a minimum score for same, which historically has been in the 55 to 60 range. BTW, myself and a whole lotta folks moved across the country for their jobs. Some jobs are worth it. Losing 100 lbs of stress and never being subject to a performance evaluation are perks not found elsewhere...
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Post by hurrywait on May 14, 2010 8:13:20 GMT -5
marylandattorney -
You can review your application at USAJOBS. It will show you exactly which cities you selected.
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Post by issuegirl on May 14, 2010 9:57:43 GMT -5
Thanks PrivateAttorney: I only listed four locations. I know I majorly limited myself, but I am essentially a single parent and need to be near a support system. So at this point, I expect that if none of the cities that I listed have openings, or if they do have openings but my score is not one of the highest of all those who listed that city on their GAL, then I won't get on the SSA Cert. Is that correct? If I do get on the Cert, and say all four of my locations are available, then I will interview, be able to give absolutely no indication of my preference, and whatever city I may or may not be selected for amongst those 4 is just the luck of the draw right?
The real reason that I wondered if we can indicate some sort of "preference" in our interview is because I am a fluent Spanish speaker, and am certain that this would be a huge advantage in some of the cities I chose on the GAL. I know that PR is probably the only one that REQUIRES Spanish speakers, but I do believe it is a major advantage in other places where Spanish is the primary language. Such places do exist in the U.S. I have worked for several federal law enforcement agencies, and I have seen firsthand that it is important to the public that the makeup of federal agencies are somewhat representative of the diversity of the location. I am not trying to get political, but I have sat in on Immigration hearings with interpreters and truly felt that the judge was not getting to hear that person's story because the interpreter was doing a poor job.
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Post by tricia on May 14, 2010 10:27:43 GMT -5
HR, you said: "I must admit I am surprised at the number of people who are willing to move half way across creation to take one of these jobs." I am one of the people who are willing to move half way, or all the way, for that matter, across creation for one of these jobs. I am in the southwest US, and yes, I would be very willing to hop in my Toyota and schlep across the country to Bangor, Maine (at my own expense since I am not now a federal employee). The reason is that I have been reading this board for three years, and I know that that can be the key to being chosen for one of these jobs. It also is true that my personal life allows this since my husband's career is somewhat portable and our children are grown. Many applicants have factors in their personal lives which do not allow that. Having said that, I did get a low score, so I probably won't get an interview this time. I just wanted to speak up for the anywhere-except-Puerto-Rico crowd.
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Post by issuegirl on May 14, 2010 10:48:27 GMT -5
Tricia: Someone I met told me that he knew several ALJ's that had gone through the process 10 times. That gave me some perspective on how hard people are willing to work to get these positions. I truly hope it works out for you this time.
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Post by californiagirl on May 14, 2010 11:35:08 GMT -5
Like Tricia, I, too, put down a wide range of availability (everywhere-except-Puerto Rico), and have a score that is a longshot. I do not expect to make the upcoming cert. However, I also believe that nothing ventured, nothing gained, and I have learned something from the process. I'll see what happens, and go from there. I wish everyone good luck!
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Post by aljsouth on May 14, 2010 12:26:40 GMT -5
Thanks PrivateAttorney: I only listed four locations. I know I majorly limited myself, but I am essentially a single parent and need to be near a support system. So at this point, I expect that if none of the cities that I listed have openings, or if they do have openings but my score is not one of the highest of all those who listed that city on their GAL, then I won't get on the SSA Cert. Is that correct? If I do get on the Cert, and say all four of my locations are available, then I will interview, be able to give absolutely no indication of my preference, and whatever city I may or may not be selected for amongst those 4 is just the luck of the draw right? The real reason that I wondered if we can indicate some sort of "preference" in our interview is because I am a fluent Spanish speaker, and am certain that this would be a huge advantage in some of the cities I chose on the GAL. I know that PR is probably the only one that REQUIRES Spanish speakers, but I do believe it is a major advantage in other places where Spanish is the primary language. Such places do exist in the U.S. I have worked for several federal law enforcement agencies, and I have seen firsthand that it is important to the public that the makeup of federal agencies are somewhat representative of the diversity of the location. I am not trying to get political, but I have sat in on Immigration hearings with interpreters and truly felt that the judge was not getting to hear that person's story because the interpreter was doing a poor job. Puerto Rico is the only place SSA asks about Spanish. A decade ago they did not ask any candidates about language skills. While not fluent I can speak passable Spanish. I thought it might help in my selection to places like Tampa where there is lot of Spanish spoken. I was told it was not asked or considered for any location [now they do for PR as we all know]. So don't think it will give you a nod for certain locations. Now, if for some reason it comes up in your interview, make sure you let them know you are are fluent. Common sense may break out in Falls Church; but, I would not expect it.
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Post by issuegirl on May 14, 2010 14:35:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the insight ALJ South. This kind of reminds me of the process for transfers in the Army. You rank the places you want to go, but you never put the place you really want to go first because as a rule you are never given your first choice. Mind Games...
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Post by marylandattorney on May 14, 2010 15:42:08 GMT -5
Hurrywait:Thanks for the tip! However, I went to usajobs and logged in to my account. It does not seem to have stored my application for ALJ-which I filed online!
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Post by friarfan on May 14, 2010 15:49:28 GMT -5
I am still a little confused. I limited my GAL to a 2 hour drive from my house. Poor choice? Maybe, but right now my family is not in a position to relocate. Does that man I won't make the cert unless there is an opening in the locations I listed? What is an opening in one of those locations (through a later attrition or transfer) occurs? Am I out of luck then? Thanks again for your assistance.
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Post by Justice-Dude on May 14, 2010 15:51:36 GMT -5
Can 5-point or 10-point veterans expand the list of locations by resubmitting an updated application since veterans can apply even when the register is closed for the public? True or False?
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Post by chinook on May 14, 2010 15:58:54 GMT -5
Correct, you will not make the cert unless there is an opening in one of your cities. If an opening occurs later there will have to be a new cert.
Up above ALJSouth notes that the worst thing any candidate can do is to list only a few locations. That is true unless you are only willing to go to a few locations. If being an ALJ takes priority over everything else in your life than list every city. If however, for any number of reasons, you have a limitation where you will go, than list only those locations. For me, my GAL is limited. I understand how that limits my chance of becoming an ALJ but it works for me. Each person has a different objective. Do what is right for you. Some that will be listing every location for others it will be fewer all the way down to just one or two.
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Post by chinook on May 14, 2010 16:03:02 GMT -5
Five point veterans can not apply at any time only 10 point veterans can. I do not know if 10 point vets can change their GAL. I would expect not because you are now on the register and I am not sure you can re-take the exam (using the 10 point any time rule) every time they give it, hoping to up your score.
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Post by friarfan on May 14, 2010 16:07:13 GMT -5
Chinook If I do not make this cert due to my GAL limitations and there is a later opening at one of the loctions that IS on my GAL, what is the likelihood tere will be a new cert for that location??
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Post by equitablerlf on May 14, 2010 16:46:51 GMT -5
Friarfan - The certs for SSA tend to run large. Some of the smaller federal agencies run small certs, but usually only hire in the DC area. It also tends to mean the very high scorers. The scenario you are asking about does not generally occur for SSA, at least based on what I have observed on this board.
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Post by 71stretch on May 14, 2010 17:08:49 GMT -5
Does that have something to do with the extensive training involved? If vacancies do occur at various times and various locations for various reasons, do they simply let them sit vacant until there are enough vacancies to fill to make it worthwhile holding the training?
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Post by misclady on May 14, 2010 17:41:16 GMT -5
SSA will allow the vacancies to remain open for various reasons and various lengths of time. Sometimes they will fill it with a transfer (assuming there is someone who has requested it and is currently willing to go when asked). Sometimes it remains open until the next cert.
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Post by southeastalj on May 14, 2010 18:13:38 GMT -5
I know mine is the minority position but I truly believe that, presuming you have a good score and at least some places on the certificate, having a limited GAL is not that much of a hindrance when the Agency is doing such large scale hiring. I'm in a fairly large office and with the various rounds of hiring have seen 8 new judges come through in the last couple years. Half of them had GAL's that were very narrow (3 of them listed only our office). And before someone suggests they must have all worked for the agency and been hand-picked, only one judge placed in our office had any prior agency experience and actually is the only one who had to move half way across the country.
If you have a good score and one of your cities is on the cert, you will almost certainly make it on the cert given they have to go down 300 or so names to satisfy the rule of 3. As the agency "slots" people to satisfy the rules, you can only be put in one place while others can be put anywhere. because the cert has to be so large, folks who put down everywhere are almost guaranteeing themselves they will be considered for cities that are less popular.
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Post by hurrywait on May 14, 2010 19:13:07 GMT -5
I also know a ALJ that had a score that was less than 80, but only listed one city and in a major metro area. He actually got offered the job once and turned it down. On the next cert, he was offered the position again and accepted. The dynamics change a bit when you have a high score. But you have to pick your GAL before you know your score. Plus if you make the cert, you can alway reduce your GAL. I would say initially, selecting a wide GAL would be better.
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Post by counselor95 on May 14, 2010 21:07:12 GMT -5
Thanks PrivateAttorney: I only listed four locations. I know I majorly limited myself, but I am essentially a single parent and need to be near a support system. So at this point, I expect that if none of the cities that I listed have openings, or if they do have openings but my score is not one of the highest of all those who listed that city on their GAL, then I won't get on the SSA Cert. Is that correct? If I do get on the Cert, and say all four of my locations are available, then I will interview, be able to give absolutely no indication of my preference, and whatever city I may or may not be selected for amongst those 4 is just the luck of the draw right? The real reason that I wondered if we can indicate some sort of "preference" in our interview is because I am a fluent Spanish speaker, and am certain that this would be a huge advantage in some of the cities I chose on the GAL. I know that PR is probably the only one that REQUIRES Spanish speakers, but I do believe it is a major advantage in other places where Spanish is the primary language. Such places do exist in the U.S. I have worked for several federal law enforcement agencies, and I have seen firsthand that it is important to the public that the makeup of federal agencies are somewhat representative of the diversity of the location. I am not trying to get political, but I have sat in on Immigration hearings with interpreters and truly felt that the judge was not getting to hear that person's story because the interpreter was doing a poor job. Puerto Rico is the only place SSA asks about Spanish. A decade ago they did not ask any candidates about language skills. While not fluent I can speak passable Spanish. I thought it might help in my selection to places like Tampa where there is lot of Spanish spoken. I was told it was not asked or considered for any location [now they do for PR as we all know]. So don't think it will give you a nod for certain locations. Now, if for some reason it comes up in your interview, make sure you let them know you are are fluent. Common sense may break out in Falls Church; but, I would not expect it. Everywhere but Puerto Rico: It would be a bad idea for an ALJ to speak Spanish at the hearing and/or interpret for himself/herself, in lieu of an official interpreter, because that would interject the ALJ into an active participatory role with possible misinterpretations. The role of the ALJ is to hear the evidence as presented; ALJs (like juries) are not to investigate or look beyond what is presented in the file and the hearing. Believe me, there's enough to do without taking on yet another role! ;D
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