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Post by counselor95 on May 14, 2010 21:26:52 GMT -5
Now to speak to the point of this thread, some comments: In 2008, the agency simultaneously sent someone who lived in Fargo to be an ALJ in the deep south, and someone from (I think) Florida to Fargo. (Each lasted a year or less in the respective locations before transferring.)
There is no opportunity to voice a preference, other than all locations listed on the GAL. I was one of those who said they'd go everywhere but PR, and moved halfway across the country for this job. I am in a good office, with hard workers and even a DDS with M.D.s and Ph.D. psychologists. The city is quite nice and it has been interesting to explore another part of the US. The cost of living is lower than the biggest cities, and the commute almost nonexistent. It's been a good experience.
Historical perspective: the register was closed for five years or more prior to the May 2007 announcement, and no one was allowed to even test for the job except those with vet preference. The number of ALJs hired by SSA in 2007 through this year is unprecedented, to my knowledge, and can't be sustained. The Commissioner has said that after 2010, the only hires will be attrition. My understanding is that attrition has historically been about 60-70 per year. That could amount to one cert per year, with one training class scheduled. The training is too long and involved to do it piecemeal.
Before I applied, the best advice I got was from a HOCALJ who said that, since I didn't have vet preference, the single best thing I could do to increase my chances of getting an offer was to list as many offices as possible on the GAL.
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slick
Member
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde
Posts: 29
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Post by slick on May 16, 2010 10:36:27 GMT -5
A word of encouragement for those of you with few cities on the GAL and scores that you think aren't high enough:
I went through the application process starting in 2008, made the 2009 cert (with a score that at first I thought wasn't great, but which turned out to be considerably above the mean) with very few GAL cities because I wasn't willing to uproot myself and go anywhere. When the cert email came, my cities list had been whittled down even more by SSA because there weren't many openings where I wanted to go. I debated about whether to "rank" my remaining choices because there were some cities I preferred over others; I decided not to do so because I really wanted the position and didn't want to limit myself even more. As it turned out, lady luck was smiling and I got an offer for my number one choice.
While scores do matter, a great score won't necessarily guarantee a slot and a poor score (or what you think is a poor score) won't guarantee rejection. Geography plays a huge part.
Good luck to all
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slick
Member
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde
Posts: 29
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Post by slick on May 16, 2010 10:43:27 GMT -5
Just a follow up: I'm just trying to point out that even with only a few cities on the GAL, you may still get your dream job.
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Post by kxmulli on May 17, 2010 19:50:06 GMT -5
"If you have a good score and one of your cities is on the cert, you will almost certainly make it on the cert given they have to go down 300 or so names to satisfy the rule of 3. "
OK-I am confused. What does "they have to go down 300 or so names to satisfy the rule of 3" mean? Does that assume there are 100 vacancies? I can see how that's true nationally, but who will have 100 vacancies in the city/cities they prefer? Almost no one.
I have a pretty good score [top 5-10% per the reported scores on this blog] and listed a lot of cities. But I really want the one big city where I live on the west coast. Shall I delete the rest of the locations I first listed on the application?
And a note of hope to people in the Northeast: I work for an agency with non-ALJ administrative judges; last year 2 colleagues in 2 of the biggest cities in the northeast received offers in his/her home city, and only 1 of them was a really nice genius person with fantastic experience; so there's hope for decently qualified types in the northeast.
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Post by mostlyzombies on May 17, 2010 23:06:01 GMT -5
Along the same lines as kxmulli's post above:
Is there a risk of getting kicked off of the cert if you delete cities off of your GAL after you initially get your cert notification??
If you got on the cert because you were one of the top 3 scorers for a particular city, and then you remove that city from your GAL, then what do they do with you?
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Post by 71stretch on May 18, 2010 7:05:43 GMT -5
Along the same lines as kxmulli's post above: Is there a risk of getting kicked off of the cert if you delete cities off of your GAL after you initially get your cert notification?? If you got on the cert because you were one of the top 3 scorers for a particular city, and then you remove that city from your GAL, then what do they do with you? As was explained to me on another thread (or maybe this one?), you get on the cert at OPM just by your score, they don't look at GALs. The lists for the cities are made up at ODAR. So, you wouldn't come completely off the main cert list just because you eliminated one city.
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Post by Well on May 18, 2010 7:46:19 GMT -5
Along the same lines as kxmulli's post above: Is there a risk of getting kicked off of the cert if you delete cities off of your GAL after you initially get your cert notification?? If you got on the cert because you were one of the top 3 scorers for a particular city, and then you remove that city from your GAL, then what do they do with you? As was explained to me on another thread (or maybe this one?), you get on the cert at OPM just by your score, they don't look at GALs. The lists for the cities are made up at ODAR. So, you wouldn't come completely off the main cert list just because you eliminated one city. Maybe I'm dense this morning, but a straight 3X the number of positions cert would run the risk of not having three candidates for some locations once spots are starting to be filled.
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Post by chinook on May 18, 2010 8:53:31 GMT -5
OPM looks at your GAL. As I understand it, the agency will request a cert with lets say 50 cities. They will receive the top 150 names by score who have one of those cities on their GAL. Suppose I am sitting here with the highest score on the register but the only city I have on my GAL is "East Overshoe" However, the agency is not looking for an ALJ in East Overshoe. Then, my name is not placed on the cert. On the other side, I am sitting with a 65, middle of the pack. This time East Overshoe is on the cert. But we all know that East overshoe is the most popular location so 15 people with higher scores also have East Overshoe on their GAL. The agency gets a list with the top 150 names who have any one of the cities listed on their GAL. Let's say the lowest score of the 150 is 61. I will still be on the cert even though there are 15 people with higher scores for my only city. In fact, I might not ever really be considered because East Overshoe got filled early.
Because most people have more than one city on their cert, the agency has flexibility and is not likely to hit a city without 3 people available for it.
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Post by 71stretch on May 18, 2010 9:26:23 GMT -5
OPM looks at your GAL. As I understand it, the agency will request a cert with lets say 50 cities. They will receive the top 150 names by score who have one of those cities on their GAL. Suppose I am sitting here with the highest score on the register but the only city I have on my GAL is "East Overshoe" However, the agency is not looking for an ALJ in East Overshoe. Then, my name is not placed on the cert. On the other side, I am sitting with a 65, middle of the pack. This time East Overshoe is on the cert. But we all know that East overshoe is the most popular location so 15 people with higher scores also have East Overshoe on their GAL. The agency gets a list with the top 150 names who have any one of the cities listed on their GAL. Let's say the lowest score of the 150 is 61. I will still be on the cert even though there are 15 people with higher scores for my only city. In fact, I might not ever really be considered because East Overshoe got filled early. Because most people have more than one city on their cert, the agency has flexibility and is not likely to hit a city without 3 people available for it. This scenario conflicts with workdrone's last post on the "How low will the 5/10 cert go" thread, so I'm still not sure how it really works. I guess us newbies will all find out soon enough!
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Post by bowser on May 18, 2010 9:40:00 GMT -5
The agency gets a list with the top 150 names who have any one of the cities listed on their GAL. ... Because most people have more than one city on their cert, the agency has flexibility and is not likely to hit a city without 3 people available for it. This is pretty much the way I assumed it went, but there still is plenty of room for the process to go different ways, isn't there? Let's say Joe is the highest scorer, and said he'd go anywhere. How is he entered on the list? As the highest scorer of the 3 who chose the most popular location, or the least popular? Let's say I'm the 4th highest scorer on the register, and said I'd only go to East Overshoe. The 3 folk above me said they'd go to either East or West Overshoe. SSA is hiring for both locations. If one or more of the top 3 get put on the cert for W. Overshoe, I get on for East. But if they are all put on for East, I'm SOL. It just seems that the manner in which these types of decisions are resolved for each person near the top of the register can have implications on whether every person lower on the register makes the cert.
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Post by okeydokey on May 18, 2010 10:19:22 GMT -5
When a particular location comes into play is the $64,000 question.
I have no idea.
However, in the past, offers have generally gone out by region. That is, they start in Region I in the northeast to the south, then to the west, then to the southwest, then to the Rocky Mountain states, then to the west, then end in the northwest, Region X.
SSA may follow this pattern in making selections. Then again, it might not. I don't think there is a rule mandating how they choose.
The only rule is that, if there is a veteran on the list, no-one lower on the list than the veteran may be chosen without passover justification.
It is possible that SSA manipulates the lists by finding places that have three veterans, choosing one, and going to down the places where veterans are on the list until the veterans on the cert are exhausted (each veteran gets three shots). This would give a decided advantage to a chosen non-veteran with a lower score (because that person could be chosen over a higher non-veteran scorer without justification). I have no knowledge that SSA has been doing this, but it is possible.
Also, there may be locations with a great need but relatively few applicants. Those locations could be bumped up. Again, I have no knowledge that SSA has been doing this, but it is possible.
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Post by lostinspace on May 18, 2010 16:45:44 GMT -5
Can anyone enlighten me as to the amount of travel required? I know some offices do not travel at all, some travel sometimes, some lots.
Might folks with knowledge about the travel requirements for the job post some information? I guess the most valuable information would be which offices require more than one week per month of travel?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by aljsouth on May 18, 2010 19:02:11 GMT -5
Can anyone enlighten me as to the amount of travel required? I know some offices do not travel at all, some travel sometimes, some lots. Might folks with knowledge about the travel requirements for the job post some information? I guess the most valuable information would be which offices require more than one week per month of travel? Thanks in advance. That really varies a great deal. Since I know the south the best here are some examples. Usually the bigger cities have less travel; but not always. For example, Shreveport, La is in a small town in Western Louisiana. Yet for some unfathomable reason Falls Church has realigned PERMANENTLY a chunk of Michigan (yes, Michigan, because it is soooo close to Louisiana) to that office. Normally you would expect to travel to some parts of Louisiana, but now now you have to go to Michigan. Yes, the remote site they cover has no VTC. One would expect an office in a larger city to not travel or not travel much. This is usually the case, but not always. New Orleans has been Permanently assigned Meridian, Mississippi, which is almost on the Alabama line in central Mississippi. Still, the rule still is mostly valid. If you go to Atlanta Downtown, you won't travel. Of course, the time you spend each day going to and from work will amount to a lot of travel. Also if you are lucky enough to land in a site with VTC in its remote sites, you won't have to travel at all. Hattiesburg and Jackson, MS , though in smaller towns have this set up. Birmingham has only one travel site, Tusculoosa, which is a day trip away. Judges there do not go often. Memphis, TN has two remote sites, Jackson, TN and Dyersburg, TN. Both have VTC. Most of the work is in Memphis. In Miami they FORCE you to go once a year to the keys Somebody has to do it. Otherwise you stay in Miami. I think you get the idea. There is no resource to claify the travel needed for Hearing Offices. A lot of remote sites does usually mean this, but I think this is available only on the intranet, i.e. you have to work at SSA to get it. Good Luck
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