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Post by valkyrie on May 12, 2010 12:41:07 GMT -5
While the scores are important, they are not the end of the game. Insiders and outsiders need to think very hard as to how they are going to approach the interview based upon their differing backgrounds. First of all, what looked good to the "professionals" at OPM may not look as good to hiring officials at ODAR. Second, those coming from outside the federal government need to recognize that it is a different culture from private practice. Third, ODAR has its own particular culture and history that a savvy candidate should be aware of. There are plenty of opinions flying around this board as to how ODAR is run, and how ODAR should be run. Obviously the most important opinion is the one belonging to the hiring official.
If you have a high score, please don't become overly confident, come across that way in the interview, and then go completely psycho and paranoid when you are left without a date.
If you are from outside the agency, please don't assume that you are sure to be screwed by an agency conspiracy. Since hiring restarted in 2007, more outsiders have been hired than insiders. Talk odds all you want, but your chances remain about 1 out of 3 at this stage.
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Post by bowser on May 12, 2010 12:56:38 GMT -5
Talk odds all you want, but your chances remain about 1 out of 3 at this stage. I appreciate your thoughts and don't mean to request overmuch precision WRT an imprecise process, but don't you mean 1/3 once you are on the cert? I didn't think anyone (outside OPM) knows how many people are on the register, and what the distribution of scores is.
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Post by maxlaw on May 12, 2010 12:57:01 GMT -5
I'm essentially repeating what I wrote in another thread, but I'll repeat it here: go read the Newbie FAQ (again). Val has that "newbie FAQ contributor" on her sig for good reason. Edit: that's a reply to Val's original post, Bowser and I cross-posted.
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Post by nonamouse on May 12, 2010 13:22:10 GMT -5
Well said Val.
Everyone please approach the hiring agency interviews with a congenial attitude and a pleasant expression on your face. The ALJs doing those interviews are trying to decide who they will allow into their ranks and potentially have to work with in their own office and the ALJ corps for the next 10-20 years or so. Regardless of whatever criteria the agency has officially set forth in their interviewer packets, the bottom line for anyone is that they might get someone in their own little piece of the world for better or worse for decades. If there is a hint of a prima donna attitude or a little too much eccentricity . . . IMO a candidate can flush their chances forever in those few minutes. I'm not trying to scare anyone. Just a kind word of warning that your brilliant legal mind and the highest OPM score ever seen may not save you if the interviewing ALJs would not want to put up with you in their office.
I've heard that in the past the agency interview was called the "please don't be crazy" interview. It is definitely more detailed than that now, but the "please don't be crazy" is still an unspoken 300 pound gorilla in the room. We have all seen some super poor attitudes demonstrated on this board that some of us believe may not have been completely hidden in the interviews of some very vocal and unsuccessful candidates for ODAR positions. Other agencies with a very small number of ALJs may be willing to overlook some of the personality "issues" that can wreak havoc in a hearing office with 10 or 15 ALJs and limited resources such as staff, hearing rooms and even available expert witnesses.
I have personally seen the storm that can be stirred up among an entire office staff and the ALJs by one self-important prima donna of an ALJ over the years. It is sad when one person can alienate themselves from all of their peers and yet everyone is stuck with the recurrent dramas/unpleasantness for years unless or until the person transfers or retires. IMO, no interviewer with an ounce of self-preservation would willingly inflict that upon his/her own office or any office in the agency when there are many 100s of eager and highly qualified people from which to choose.
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Post by 71stretch on May 12, 2010 13:53:07 GMT -5
Well said Val. Everyone please approach the hiring agency interviews with a congenial attitude and a pleasant expression on your face. The ALJs doing those interviews are trying to decide who they will allow into their ranks and potentially have to work with in their own office and the ALJ corps for the next 10-20 years or so. Regardless of whatever criteria the agency has officially set forth in their interviewer packets, the bottom line for anyone is that they might get someone in their own little piece of the world for better or worse for decades. If there is a hint of a prima donna attitude or a little too much eccentricity . . . IMO a candidate can flush their chances forever in those few minutes. I'm not trying to scare anyone. Just a kind word of warning that your brilliant legal mind and the highest OPM score ever seen may not save you if the interviewing ALJs would not want to put up with you in their office. I've heard that in the past the agency interview was called the "please don't be crazy" interview. It is definitely more detailed than that now, but the "please don't be crazy" is still an unspoken 300 pound gorilla in the room. We have all seen some super poor attitudes demonstrated on this board that some of us believe may not have been completely hidden in the interviews of some very vocal and unsuccessful candidates for ODAR positions. Other agencies with a very small number of ALJs may be willing to overlook some of the personality "issues" that can wreak havoc in a hearing office with 10 or 15 ALJs and limited resources such as staff, hearing rooms and even available expert witnesses. I have personally seen the storm that can be stirred up among an entire office staff and the ALJs by one self-important prima donna of an ALJ over the years. It is sad when one person can alienate themselves from all of their peers and yet everyone is stuck with the recurrent dramas/unpleasantness for years unless or until the person transfers or retires. IMO, no interviewer with an ounce of self-preservation would willingly inflict that upon his/her own office or any office in the agency when there are many 100s of eager and highly qualified people from which to choose. This is such a good post. I've been a state agency ALJ for 20 years, and know all too well what good advice this is.
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Post by afgirl on May 12, 2010 14:04:09 GMT -5
In addition to killing yourself in the interview, you still have to get past your background check. Your references can also kill you. I will go find the post of what to say to your references and ping it back to the top. I know someone with a high score, who did well in the interview, but was killed by "helpful" references.
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Post by carrickfergus on May 12, 2010 14:22:06 GMT -5
Nonamouse - exactly right on.
Also, be sure to sincerely thank the interviewers, and let them know you appreciate their time and attention when the interview is over.
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Post by Orly on May 12, 2010 15:57:44 GMT -5
Well said! Please don't get the prima donna syndrome.
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Post by tigerfan on May 12, 2010 18:48:51 GMT -5
Nonamouse is right on! when the interview is over the interviewers will ask each other "would you want this person in your office/region. Better hope for a double yes. And as Orly said avoid getting the Prima Donna syndrome or the I'm looking for a place to retire virus.
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Post by issuegirl on May 12, 2010 22:45:28 GMT -5
Speaking of counting chickens, here is my dilemma. I am trying to plan a very important trip with my Mom this summer. I had planned on going the latter part of June through early July. Assuming best case scenario that I am selected to interview, and interviews are completed by June 16, (there is only one more interview, right?) would it be safe to buy plane tickets for June 20 - July 8, or is there something that will happen between the end of the interview and the start of training that I would need to be available for? The trip is going to be to Europe to do a pilgramage, so I will most likely be unavailable and unable to check email often. Any thought anyone, please? Thanks.
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Post by odarite on May 13, 2010 5:31:59 GMT -5
issuegirl, don't let this process consume your actual life! Buy your tickets, enjoy your pilgrimage. But to avoid fretting yourself past enjoyment, take the following steps: set an away message on any email account. Europe is full of internet cafes where you can check your email now and again. It usually takes several weeks for the agency to "work the list" once the interviews are done before offers go out. But you can always have a trusted friend/relative/colleague monitor your answering machine/voice mail and get a European cell phone for your trip so you won't be completely out of touch. (The cell phone will come in handy for your actual trip, so that if as expected they don't call while you were gone, you will still be glad you had it.) Bottom line is, as has been pointed out before, you still only have a one in three chance (more or less) of a job offer even if you are on the cert, so live your life on the assumption you won't get the call and you will be much happier!
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Post by privateatty on May 13, 2010 12:08:09 GMT -5
issuegirl, don't let this process consume your actual life! Buy your tickets, enjoy your pilgrimage. But to avoid fretting yourself past enjoyment, take the following steps: set an away message on any email account. Europe is full of internet cafes where you can check your email now and again. It usually takes several weeks for the agency to "work the list" once the interviews are done before offers go out. But you can always have a trusted friend/relative/colleague monitor your answering machine/voice mail and get a European cell phone for your trip so you won't be completely out of touch. (The cell phone will come in handy for your actual trip, so that if as expected they don't call while you were gone, you will still be glad you had it.) Bottom line is, as has been pointed out before, you still only have a one in three chance (more or less) of a job offer even if you are on the cert, so live your life on the assumption you won't get the call and you will be much happier! Some of the best advice I've seen in 2 1/2 years on this Board.
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Post by issuegirl on May 13, 2010 12:24:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the good advice. I was wanting to know how quickly offers come out after the interview and you answered that question as well.
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Post by counsel on May 17, 2010 11:12:24 GMT -5
All excellent advice. The one thing I would add is that because the questions are somewhat uniform, you may need to bring up and address any potential red flags or unusual circumstances in your file. Also, by the time I made it to the SSA interview I was so stressed about the process and geographic choices that I did not feel good about the interview. I prepared by thinking about how I would answer the questions which, from the boards, it seemed likely they would ask. So, read the boards, prepare, but also, relax!
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Post by 71stretch on May 17, 2010 12:16:18 GMT -5
All excellent advice. The one thing I would add is that because the questions are somewhat uniform, you may need to bring up and address any potential red flags or unusual circumstances in your file. Also, by the time I made it to the SSA interview I was so stressed about the process and geographic choices that I did not feel good about the interview. I prepared by thinking about how I would answer the questions which, from the boards, it seemed likely they would ask. So, read the boards, prepare, but also, relax! What would constitute "red flags"? Things that might come up on the background check, or? ?
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Post by counsel on May 17, 2010 13:59:44 GMT -5
All excellent advice. The one thing I would add is that because the questions are somewhat uniform, you may need to bring up and address any potential red flags or unusual circumstances in your file. Also, by the time I made it to the SSA interview I was so stressed about the process and geographic choices that I did not feel good about the interview. I prepared by thinking about how I would answer the questions which, from the boards, it seemed likely they would ask. So, read the boards, prepare, but also, relax! What would constitute "red flags"? Things that might come up on the background check, or? ? I wrote an article critical of the agency and changed jobs frequently -- both things I assume any employer would want to know more about and both fairly obvious as they were listed on my resume. Both were handled with quick explanations to the panel, and that seemed to work fine.
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Post by 71stretch on May 17, 2010 14:27:40 GMT -5
What would constitute "red flags"? Things that might come up on the background check, or? ? I know there is a credit check but I have heard the claim that as long as it does not include Federal, state, or local tax debts or other debts in arrears to governmental entities that a poor credit report is not a killer. The person who told me that was an ALJ who had a private practice go belly-up when his home-run PI case ended up being a long fly-out. Sad story, great phrase to sum it up. Thanks!
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biker
Full Member
Posts: 40
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Post by biker on May 17, 2010 16:48:17 GMT -5
Unless you have some huge skeletons in your closet I wouldn't worry too much. A good friend of mine had some serious issues with debts stemming from a divorce; he had no problem. As long as you have a good explanation for such things they don't seem to get too upset. My security interview wasn't held until I had been working for about 3 months; the interviewer stated it shouldn't take too long because my background was pretty "boring". Sort of hurt my feelings in a way.
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Post by imiram1372 on May 18, 2010 8:17:23 GMT -5
This has been a great thread and I want to thank everyone for their great advice. I just had a question about the location of interview. If one is lucky enough to get on the cert and invited for an interview, does the location of the interview depend on where one may be placed because of their GAL selections or are all the interviews all in D.C.? Sorry if this question has been asked and answered before.
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Post by okeydokey on May 18, 2010 8:53:44 GMT -5
The D.C. area is the only place for interviews to be an ALJ with SSA. At least I have not heard of one outside of D.C.
It is theoretically possible for an interview to be somewhere else, but I think it extremely unlikely.
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