scores and interview

[privateatty]

As I understand it there are 150 openings and over 400 to be interviewed.

Further under the CFR, they must take one of the three top scorers for that ALJ opening in the applicable locale that is on the new SSA master list. What if the SSA folks decide that they really want you after your interview but you are not one of the three high scorers? Say you are number 6 or 7. Can they still reach down and take you?

This is a question I have not seen answered and would apply to arguably 200 or more people...

THX!javascript:add("%20:)")
Smiley

[deadwood]

IMHO, if the SSA folks want you, regardless of your ranking, they will find a way to make it happen.

[jagghagg]

Actually, I think the infamous "Rule of Three" has been discussed here and there. Having been a CPL attorney in the federal government for about 20 years, I can tell you it is a tough one to get around. I recall Pixie indicating it cannot be done legally and I would agree with her. Deadwood indicates that if they want you, they can get you and - that too - has merit because most any selection process can be manipulated to a point.

Rule of 3: Candidates referred on OPM certificates are ranked by score and veterans preference. Normally, at least three candidates are referred, with additional candidates if more than one vacancy is being filled. For selection, the rule of three applies. This means that selection must be made from the top three candidates on the certificate, keeping in mind that you cannot bypass a candidate with Veterans Preference to select a candidate with no preference, unless the supervisor can adequately justify doing so on security or suitability grounds. Most candidates on an OPM certificate do not have prior Federal service/experience, but such would not be true, it seems, regarding the certificate we are all on now.

*** I do wonder, however, if the Rule of 3 and not by-passing a Vet with Preference really applies here since anyone who got the 5-point or 10-point preference already HAS that built into their scores.....

[pm]

privateatty said:

As I understand it there are 150 openings and over 400 to be interviewed.

Further under the CFR, they must take one of the three top scorers for that ALJ opening in the applicable locale that is on the new SSA master list. What if the SSA folks decide that they really want you after your interview but you are not one of the three high scorers? Say you are number 6 or 7. Can they still reach down and take you?

This is a question I have not seen answered and would apply to arguably 200 or more people...

THX!javascript:add("%20:)")
Smiley

The top three is not necessarily a fixed threesome. As soon as they offer a job to one of those top three, there is a new top three, ad infinitum.

And if they want you for a particular city, it's easy to put you there. They just offer positions in other cities to the people above you. That's the disadvantage sometimes to listing too many cities. If you really want a particular city, but have listed 10 cities, your odds of getting that one city you really want are very low, unless it's very unpopular. That's why ODAR wants you to list as many cities as possible. It helps them filll positions more easily.

[aljsouth]

pm said:

privateatty said:

As I understand it there are 150 openings and over 400 to be interviewed.

Further under the CFR, they must take one of the three top scorers for that ALJ opening in the applicable locale that is on the new SSA master list. What if the SSA folks decide that they really want you after your interview but you are not one of the three high scorers? Say you are number 6 or 7. Can they still reach down and take you?

This is a question I have not seen answered and would apply to arguably 200 or more people...

THX!javascript:add("%20:)")
Smiley

The top three is not necessarily a fixed threesome. As soon as they offer a job to one of those top three, there is a new top three, ad infinitum.

And if they want you for a particular city, it's easy to put you there. They just offer positions in other cities to the people above you. That's the disadvantage sometimes to listing too many cities. If you really want a particular city, but have listed 10 cities, your odds of getting that one city you really want are very low, unless it's very unpopular. That's why ODAR wants you to list as many cities as possible. It helps them filll positions more easily.

Yes ODAR can fiddle to some exent. But listing many sites helps the candidate If you list a site and get a job at one of those sites, then you cannot complain. Yes it may inadvertently help ODAR to whittle away candidates at site X to reach its favorite, but you are being hired for the job you applied for.

[Pixie]

pm: The first paragraph of your post is confusing us. Everyone should think of it in terms of one office, one vacancy-- three names. One office, two vacancies--six names. Of course with multiple offices iin the mix, different dynamics are involved.

If a vacancy is filled, there is no going back to OPM for more names. The Certificate of eligibles remains as it was sent to the agency. More names aren't sent over to fill in the vacancies that invariably arise when an appointment is made.

And ODAR really doesn't care how many locations are listed by the candidate, unless it is someone it would like to reach. Neither does OPM. It has enough names to fill certificates several times over for even the most unpopular locations in the country.

As an educated guess--I haven't seen the list in several years--I would say that there are probably at least thirty names each on the geographical preference lists for Billings, Montana, Fargo, North Dakota and Middlesboro, Kentucky. Not that these are "bad" locations, but that they are a bit out of the way from everything else. Even so, there is an abundance of candidates willing to accept an appointment in those locations.

And, yes, you are exactly right about how Falls Church can reach a candidate it wants to bring on board. Falls Church views this process as not much better than a roll of the dice. Anything that can be done to shorten the odds, will be done. Pix.

[jobane]

Pixie or anyone else, does that mean this is the last of the certificates sent out this round?

[deltajudge]

A dollar will go a long way in Middlesboro, KY, but you will have travel a ways to spend it. Why OHA put an office there is beyond comprehension.

[patience]

This question is in reference to pixie's remark. I interpret her comment to be that OPM refers one name over for only one office. Therefore, if you delist that office, then you won't be considered for any other office. Is that correct? If so, it appears the best approach would be to not delist any office. For some reason, I was under the impression that one name could be on several office lists, depending on that person's score.

[jobane]

I am also wondering if this is the last of the names sent out for the certificate..either for location or score.

[Pixie]

deltajudge said:

A dollar will go a long way in Middlesboro, KY, but you will have travel a ways to spend it. Why OHA put an office there is beyond comprehension.

Middlesboro is going to be pretty much allowed to wither on the vine. Judges have been transferred out with no replacements being sent in. The current plan is to let Knoxville start hearing the Middlesboro cases.

There has been a problem in the office that is too complex to fix. It is the type of situation that is just easier to work around. Pix.

[Pixie]

patience said:

This question is in reference to pixie's remark. I interpret her comment to be that OPM refers one name over for only one office. Therefore, if you delist that office, then you won't be considered for any other office. Is that correct? If so, it appears the best approach would be to not delist any office. For some reason, I was under the impression that one name could be on several office lists, depending on that person's score.

Now I am the one doing the confusing! A candidate's name may appear on the certificate for one location or multiple locations. OPM determines the top three scores for each location for which a certificate is requested. It then sends the names, the scores and the locations to SSA personnel, which arranges the names according to locations and scores.

As to whether this will be the only certificate this time around, see my post earlier on this topic. Short answer is, I don't know for sure, but I think all of the 150 names will come from this certificate with the first class on March 17, 2008. All of this is subject to change, with the budget being the biggest unanswered question.

Let's try and stay on topic. I did get a little sidetracked with my response to the Middlesboro message above. After I posted the response, I realized that the topic was not "Middlesboro" but rather "Scores and Interviews." So let's stay on topic. This thread will be long enough as it is. Pix.

[judicature]

Are you informed which cities you are interviewing for in advance of the interview?

[aljsouth]

judicature said:

Are you informed which cities you are interviewing for in advance of the interview?

You are interviewing for the sites you listed and in which SSA has id'ed an opening. Check your FEAI. You are interviewing for all those sites.

[lurker]

aljsouth said:

You are interviewing for the sites you listed and in which SSA has id'ed an opening. Check your FEAI. You are interviewing for all those sites.

What's confusing is that we all appear to have gotten the same FEAI, which lists 71 sites. In my case, I listed 36 cities, only 9 of which are on the FEAI. Am I interviewing for the 9 cities or for whichever cities I check when I return the FEAI?

[snowman]

Thank you, Lurker. That is my question, too.

[jagghagg]

powerties said:

As I understand it, OPM's rules prevented you from adding or deleting cities to your completed paperwork at OPM (presumably because they do not want to be bothered). Now that the ministerial functions are largely out of OPM and in the hands of SSA, you can change cities by adding or subtracting. I have not seen anyone cite any specific rule that prohibits SSA from deciding that it wants to exercise that flexibily in this hiring round.

ALJSouth posted, in another thread on adding and deleting from the FEAI -

"OPM has already forwarded to you the Federal Employment Availability Inquiry (FEAI) which lists the locations where we are currently recruiting that match the locations you have on file at OPM. You have the option of declining all locations by stating this on the FEAI. You may also indicate an interest in all or some of the locations by placing an “X” only after the location(s) in which you would accept if an ALJ position were offered to you. Please consider this very carefully because you may be required to travel to areas outside your duty station. In addition, you will be expected to remain employed at that location for at least two years. Even after the conclusion of two years, the likelihood of moving to another location is quite limited since reassignments are made based upon the workload needs of the agency."


It seems candidates will not be allowed to add sites; only remove them. This is consistent with how we were treated in 2001. If you think about it, this is fair. I distinctly remember putting x's by all the sites I had selected. The only difference now is that we turned in the form at the SSA interview. Someone told me to put more than one x by my favorite. I doubt it helped, but I did get it. It is an unpopular destination and I suspect that helped more than my multiple x's.

Good luck to all, if you end up in this unpopular site I may be your mentor."

*************************************************

I tend to think (from my experience as a Personnel attorney and from the experienced posters on this board) that they will NOT allow additions and not deletions - basically that is how I interpret the rule AND because that would tend to reduce the "weeding" process (the "one-free-turn-down" rule.) The more you are stuck with what you now perceive as a bad location choice, the more likely you are to turn it down and that will weed down the list for them.

Why yes, - yes I am jaded.

So (my opinion only) they are only allowing you to expand your choices.

[jagghagg]

lurker said:

What's confusing is that we all appear to have gotten the same FEAI, which lists 71 sites. In my case, I listed 36 cities, only 9 of which are on the FEAI. Am I interviewing for the 9 cities or for whichever cities I check when I return the FEAI?

When I spoke to SSA today, I was told you cannot (repeat, CANNOT) add cities for which you have not previously indicated a preference. The list contains all the cities for which positions are being filled. You may indicate a continued preference for any of the cities you had so indicated before. That is done by marking the city with an "X." You may also "de-list" a previously indicated preference by NOT putting an "X" by that city. (So, for example, anyone still willing to go anywhere, will mark ALL listed cities on the FEAI. But say someone said they would go anywhere but NOW circumstances have changed and they won't go to Cleveland - or some other place - then that person would mark ALL cities EXCEPT Cleveland.) So, for me, there are only FIVE of my previously-annotated cities. I am no longer willing to go to TWO of them, so there will be THREE X's on my FEAI that I fax back.)

I'm sure this is all as clear as mud.......

[jagghagg]

JTFB - do you need the documents ? If so, send me a note with your e-mail and I will get them to you.