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Post by sleepy on Jul 14, 2010 8:27:09 GMT -5
What do I do if my spouse and I have decided that we simply can't live in any of the three cities for which I am being considered for an ALJ position? If I call SSA now and tell them that I would like to reduce my GAL to exclude the three cities for which I am being considered, will I revert to someone not on the cert? If so, would I not be better off to wait and see if I get an offer?
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Post by maxlaw on Jul 14, 2010 8:43:43 GMT -5
Are you saying that your GAL is only 3 cities, and you wouldn't go to any of them if hired? If that's the case, I'd strongly consider notifying ODAR so that you don't run the risk of being selected and declining, which I understand counts as a strike against you.
If you have other cities on your GAL, but want to remove the 3, it's more complicated. Common wisdom is that broader exposure increases your selection opportunity, but of course, you run the risk of being selected for a city to which you can not go. And remember, ODAR will go back to OPM and tell them to remove those cities from the GAL that they maintain. If you have a few other cities on your list, I think I'd just leave it be for now, but of course you know your own situation best.
If it makes a difference, I'm on this cert too.
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Post by flatlander on Jul 14, 2010 9:41:22 GMT -5
What do I do if my spouse and I have decided that we simply can't live in any of the three cities for which I am being considered for an ALJ position? If I call SSA now and tell them that I would like to reduce my GAL to exclude the three cities for which I am being considered, will I revert to someone not on the cert? If so, would I not be better off to wait and see if I get an offer? My understanding is that if SSA offers you a slot in East Metropolis, and you decline, the result is that SSA will not offer the slot to anyone this round. That would be a shame, especially if I was #2 on the SSA list for Metropolis. I would (selfishly) suggest you call SSA and ask them the question you asked here. The end result could be that SSA might be able to actually offer the East Metropolis slot to someone who will accept. Thus: 1) SSA can get an ALJ in Metropolis, and 2) My child could get a new pair of shoes.
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Post by iplawyer on Jul 14, 2010 9:46:06 GMT -5
It is my understanding that if SSA offers a position in a particular location to someone and is turned down, SSA doesn't go to its second-choice candidate for that location. Rather, that slot remains open until the next cert. So I would politely request that you tell SSA before it offers you a position and you decline it. Otherwise, you are, in effect, possibly taking a position away from someone who would want it (when you don't even want it). I'm sure that you wouldn't want that happening to you.
{Oops. Flatlander posted before I refreshed. But, yes, what he said.}
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oldschool
Full Member
Newbie FAQ Contributor
Posts: 101
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Post by oldschool on Jul 14, 2010 9:46:45 GMT -5
Or, you could revisit the issue with your spouse, and determine whether you could live in any of the three cities for long enough to obtain a transfer back to where you want to me. It may take a couple of years. It may well be that location is more important to you than the job itself and if so, everyone would respect that. However, keep in mind the possibility of a transfer, and if you want the job badly enough, consider a temporary, albeit inconvenient, relocation to be a foot in the door.
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Post by milagros on Jul 14, 2010 12:01:32 GMT -5
I am wondering if "sleepy" just posted about his "quandry" in order to stir things up. If so, it worked.
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Post by kxmulli on Jul 14, 2010 13:29:10 GMT -5
I have the same situation, and calling SSA would reduce my GAL to only one location open in my HUGE metro area. Are people saying that such a call constitutes turning down an offer so I could not get an offer from this cert?
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Post by 71stretch on Jul 14, 2010 13:34:43 GMT -5
It's not turning down an offer, no offer has been made. You aren't in the same situation. You at least would have one location left on this cert; sleepy, from what the post says, would have none, since sleepy and spouse don't want to move to any of the locations that are on this cert from the original GAL sleepy provided. If there is NO offer from this cert that sleepy would take, then yes, I would agree that the call to SSA should be made, so that sleepy DOESN'T turn down an actual offer of a job in a city sleepy doesn't want to move to. Turning down an actual offer would be a strike. Calling them ahead of time to further restrict a GAL would not.
As always, JMO.
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Post by mcb on Jul 14, 2010 18:00:35 GMT -5
It's not turning down an offer, no offer has been made. You aren't in the same situation. You at least would have one location left on this cert; sleepy, from what the post says, would have none, since sleepy and spouse don't want to move to any of the locations that are on this cert from the original GAL sleepy provided. If there is NO offer from this cert that sleepy would take, then yes, I would agree that the call to SSA should be made, so that sleepy DOESN'T turn down an actual offer of a job in a city sleepy doesn't want to move to. Turning down an actual offer would be a strike. Calling them ahead of time to further restrict a GAL would not. As always, JMO. And also deprive an offer to one of the other two persons selected for the position sleepy declines. Not to mention one less ALJ to address the backlog of claimants, waiting to have their claims adjudicated. You know, the "little guy" or "lady" who needs his/her claim heard and decided in a timely manner.
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Post by odarite on Jul 14, 2010 19:52:38 GMT -5
more than call, I would send an email to Mr. Gehlken saying that you are withdrawing from consideration on this certificate, or removing cities x, y and z from your availability. Call? anyone can call and say they are you. An email is more attributable! And this for all the reasons others have said. If you know now you will not accept a particular offer, you may be depriving another person of a job offer. NOT an ethically defensible position.
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Post by privateatty on Jul 14, 2010 20:00:14 GMT -5
more than call, I would send an email to Mr. Gehlken saying that you are withdrawing from consideration on this certificate, or removing cities x, y and z from your availability. Call? anyone can call and say they are you. An email is more attributable! And this for all the reasons others have said. If you know now you will not accept a particular offer, you may be depriving another person of a job offer. NOT an ethically defensible position. I have been equivocating on the ethics of this one. And the Golden Rule. Amen odarite--and it ain't the first time, Judge.
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Post by bucksfan on Jul 14, 2010 22:24:05 GMT -5
Sleepy asked "If so, would I not be better off to wait and see if I get an offer?" Why would she be better off to wait? I don't get it. I'm new to this, so maybe someone with more information can comment, but I don't see why you wouldn't call now, given the fact SSA won't go to the next potential hire on the list. On the other hand, why doesn't SSA just go to the next person on the list if someone declines an offer? Every other employer does that.
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Post by george007 on Jul 15, 2010 7:10:24 GMT -5
Interesting to me that folks are screaming "UNETHICAL!" and "GIVE ME THE JOB HURRY UP AND SAY YOU'RE NOT GOING!" and generally freaking out when it's obvious to me that this sleepy person (who hasn't written anything else yet...) is probably just stirring the pot. He/she did a good job, don't you think?
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Post by diverdown on Jul 15, 2010 7:53:52 GMT -5
george007, I agree with you completely. He/she did string the board along. If you go through the old posts, those that decided not to take an offer because of some reason or another, i.e. State judgeship, partnership at a large firm, kids, etc..., the next person on the list of 3 for that location and position was called with an offer. Again, hopefully, history will repeat itself.
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Post by 71stretch on Jul 15, 2010 8:55:29 GMT -5
I've seen posts both ways here on what happens currently if an offer is declined....that it stays open for the next cert or maybe gets filled in the interim with a transfer, AND that it is made to the next person up for that location. Does anyone really know for sure which is the case?
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Post by diverdown on Jul 15, 2010 9:07:26 GMT -5
observer53, probably all of the above. No one has any rhyme or reason on how things are done during ALJ draft week (similar to NFL draft I guess). Fill with free agents, go to first round, go to second round, go to third round, wait till next year to fill spot. I wonder if NFL owners are the ones doing the ALJ selections.
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Post by flatlander on Jul 15, 2010 10:40:48 GMT -5
Interesting to me that folks are screaming "UNETHICAL!" and "GIVE ME THE JOB HURRY UP AND SAY YOU'RE NOT GOING!" and generally freaking out when it's obvious to me that this sleepy person (who hasn't written anything else yet...) is probably just stirring the pot. He/she did a good job, don't you think? Yes... A good job either way. I, for one, am thankful for the distraction. I have been very patient with this process, but now that everything but the pickin' is done ... as Inigo Montoya says: "I hate waiting."
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Post by 71stretch on Jul 15, 2010 11:16:18 GMT -5
observer53, probably all of the above. No one has any rhyme or reason on how things are done during ALJ draft week (similar to NFL draft I guess). Fill with free agents, go to first round, go to second round, go to third round, wait till next year to fill spot. I wonder if NFL owners are the ones doing the ALJ selections. I guess "wait till next year" for SSA would be roughly analogous to "player to be named later" in professional sports.
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Post by privateatty on Jul 15, 2010 17:09:31 GMT -5
There have been past posts on this. I can't recall how long ago but it had to have been a year or more. The information at the time (and it had the veneer of authenticity) was that once a slot was offered and declined, well, that was a different huddle at a different time. The rate of declination historically was rather small. Then came the housing crisis and things appeared to have changed, although there has been no hard information here. Gosh knows some part of the Agency is dealing with real estate that won't move and that may well be a factor in the budget--as some folks have had their homes' sales subsidized by Prudential and the Agency. Obviously, some folks can't sell--although that was a better '08-'09 argument than '10.
These posts have also ignored the mechanics of the three strike rule which requires that all three considerees be in play for any location. IOW, substitution does not play into that game.
On the other hand, given the size of this cert it would make sense that they would want to fill them. However, Puzzle Palace does things their own way and arguing what makes sense is futile.
One final note, the chief chooser has left the Palace...
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Post by deltajudge on Jul 15, 2010 17:43:10 GMT -5
8-)A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, old cliche, but apropos in this instance. Take the offer, then you will have flexibility later. Without it, you are out in the cold, with no appointment.
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