Entry ALJ pay for current fed employees

[bowser]

The "Pay and Benefits" portion of the "Training and Benefits" sticky has the folowing information.

Per OPM rules, if you are a current federal employee, your starting salary as an ALJ will not be less than your current base salary (excluding locality pay).

I'm just trying to anticipate what this might mean for me should I be fortunate enough to get an offer. I am currently a federal employee. With locality pay, my current salary exceeds the AL3/A for any locality. But the base salary for my current grade/step is less than any AL3/A.

I guess I had been assuming that if I got an offer, it would be for at least what I am currently making - which would mean AL3B or even 3C in the locations for which I am being considered. But from that post it looks as tho I could be hired as an ALJ within my current locality, but offered a pay cut. Does anyone have any experience as to how this works out?

[barkley]

No experience, but suggest you go to the OPM web site. They have separate charts for the ALJ base pay and the ALJ locality pay.

www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/pdf/alj_loc.pdf

[bowser]

Yeah - I looked at those, but they do not answer the question I asked.

Let's say I am a GS14-8 in Boston (I'm not). My salary with locality is $130,364. The locality pay for AL3A in all but a few locations is less than $130k, so unless I were going to Hartford, NYC, Houston, LA, or SF, I would be hired in as an
AL3B.

BUT the sticky says "your current base salary (excluding locality pay)". And the base salary for a GS14-8 (excluding locality pay) is only $104,458. So if I were hired to be an ALJ in Boston, I would take a 1k pay cut to $129,667 as an AL3A. And, if I were hired in many locations, such as Columbus or Indy, I might be facing a $10k reduction or more.

I don't need anyone to convince me whether or not this is "fair" or "desirable", just curious what I might be hearing should I need to make a decision on whether or not to accept an offer.

[71stretch]

I think the difference is between "YOUR CURRENT BASE" salary and "the" base salary. If you exclude your current locality pay, then whatever number is left is YOUR current base, as opposed to "the" base.

[factfinder]

This is a rather important issue.

Some folks say you have to compare base to base - in other words, the base they pay you cannot be less than your current base. In which case, you still receive the locality on top pf the ALJ base and for most folks the result will be fine. Old Federal maxim is you do not lose pay.

However, if they interpret the rule (I believe incorrectly) to mean that your base is their ceiling than most folks would be better off not taking the job if they have a mortgage to pay. Would be interested to see what ALJ's with experience would say - those who were GS-15 step 6 - 10's.

[fletch40]

The ALJ salary goes up to AL-3/F, so in all likelihood, they will just place you at the nearest level (/A-/F) that's equal to or higher than your current salary. You don't have to start at the 3/A level.

And factfinder is correct, you take your current base salary (without locality pay) and then match to the base salary of the ALJ position in the new locality. Once you figure out what ALJ grade that puts you in, add the locality adjustment to find your total salary.

[bowser]

Jul 19, 2010 12:19:31 GMT -5 fletch40 said:

... in all likelihood, they will just place you at the nearest level (/A-/F) that's equal to or higher than your current salary.

This is what I assumed. Say I currently live in a big city and make $130k, I had assumed wherever I went as an ALJ I would make at least $130k. But I was thinking about questions I might have should I receive a call, and when I looked at the available info, I realized this might be a completely different wrinkle than I had anticipated.

Yeah, the ALJ allows for relatively rapid promotion, and yeah less money can have the same spending power in different localities, and I admit I may have been ignorant, but I just never thought I might be facing any sort of a salary reduction. Certainly not determinative one way or the other, but just kinda changed my thinking.

[Well]

Jul 19, 2010 11:32:52 GMT -5 bowser said:

Yeah - I looked at those, but they do not answer the question I asked.

Let's say I am a GS14-8 in Boston (I'm not). My salary with locality is $130,364. The locality pay for AL3A in all but a few locations is less than $130k, so unless I were going to Hartford, NYC, Houston, LA, or SF, I would be hired in as an
AL3B.

BUT the sticky says "your current base salary (excluding locality pay)". And the base salary for a GS14-8 (excluding locality pay) is only $104,458. So if I were hired to be an ALJ in Boston, I would take a 1k pay cut to $129,667 as an AL3A. And, if I were hired in many locations, such as Columbus or Indy, I might be facing a $10k reduction or more.

I don't need anyone to convince me whether or not this is "fair" or "desirable", just curious what I might be hearing should I need to make a decision on whether or not to accept an offer.

If you are hired in the same locality, then it is a serious problem that you *might* have a chance of getting some relief with.

But if you compare cost of living using Money Magazine's calculator, $130,364 in Boston is the equivalent of making $88,436 in Indianapolis or $93,415 in Columbus.

Now obviously if you have a non-mortgage debt load that won't support an $11,000 reduction in income or a mortgage you are upside down on then even with the lower cost of living its a bad deal but otherwise you come out ahead with the salary reduction in pure dollars and cents analysis.

[flatlander]

Jul 19, 2010 10:49:26 GMT -5 bowser said:

The "Pay and Benefits" portion of the "Training and Benefits" sticky has the folowing information.

Per OPM rules, if you are a current federal employee, your starting salary as an ALJ will not be less than your current base salary (excluding locality pay).

I'm just trying to anticipate what this might mean for me should I be fortunate enough to get an offer. I am currently a federal employee. With locality pay, my current salary exceeds the AL3/A for any locality. But the base salary for my current grade/step is less than any AL3/A.

I guess I had been assuming that if I got an offer, it would be for at least what I am currently making - which would mean AL3B or even 3C in the locations for which I am being considered. But from that post it looks as tho I could be hired as an ALJ within my current locality, but offered a pay cut. Does anyone have any experience as to how this works out?

Here's further explanation regarding what fletch713 said, and the method to calculate ...

5 CFR 930.205 covers ALJ pay.
ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=ba8a02eee08ef6a2f4c1e240a17162d2&rgn=div8&view=text&node=5:2.0.1.1.41.2.159.5&idno=5

It says:
"(f) Upon appointment to a position at AL–3, an administrative law judge may be paid at the minimum rate A, unless the administrative law judge is eligible for the higher rate B, C, D, E, or F because of prior service or superior qualifications, as provided in paragraphs (f)(1) and (f)(2) of this section.

(f)(1) An agency may offer an administrative law judge applicant with prior Federal service a higher than minimum rate up to the lowest rate of basic pay that equals or exceeds the applicant's highest previous Federal rate of basic pay, not to exceed the maximum rate F."

Thus, the comparison is GS "Basic pay" to ALJ "Basic pay."

With this understanding, though I don't have experience (yet), I can tell you how to make your salary calculation:

For you present United States government GS employees who wish to determine your new ALJ salary:

1) Determine your current base salary (excluding locality pay) by finding your GS grade and step here:
www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/html/gs.asp

2) Compare it to the base salary of for ALJs:
www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/html/alj.asp

3) Choose the first base ALJ salary rate on the (#2) chart that is higher than your GS base salary level (#1 chart). This will be either the AL-3A rate, AL-3B, AL-3C, or AL-3D, depending on your current grade and step).

4) Find your new location and AL-3? rate to find your new salary in this ALJ salary with locality pay chart:
www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/html/alj_loc.asp

For example, for a GS14, step 8 (Boston, or any other location is irrelevant), look at the #1 chart for your base salary ($104,458), compare it to the #2 chart for the first higher ALJ base salary. For your Boston GS-14 step 8, it will be ALJ level AL-3B, base salary $111,800). Then find the total salary, including locality pay, for AL-3B it into your new location on chart 4.

If you take an ALJ position in the same locality, you will not get a smaller salary. Period.

However, (please correct me if you have any experience other than as stated here), it is definitely possible to actually have a temporary decrease in total pay (basic pay plus locality pay) if you are a senior GS14 or GS15 and move from a location with a very high locality pay to one with a significantly lower locality pay. I imagine this is not a problem for the majority of applicants, though I do not know. In any event, my eyeball assessment is that the problem would only last one year, and you would be much better off in the following years.

Here's hoping you have to worry about it.

[Well]

So unless you are GS-14 steps 8, 9, or 10 or GS-15 steps 3-10 a current Federal employee enters at AL-3/A.

GS-14 steps 8-10 and GS-15 steps 3-4 enter at AL-3/B

GS-15 steps 5, 6, 7 enter at AL-3/C

GS-15 steps 8, 9 enter at AL-3/D

GS-15 step 10 enters at AL-3/E

[bowser]

Thanks, flatlander. I had been skipping step #2, and insted of looking at the ALJ base table, going right from GS base to ALJ locality - which suggested a greater possible drop (in actual dollars if not spending power) than I had anticipated.

Just overthinking things and otherwise driving myself crazy in the silence here...

[71stretch]

Jul 19, 2010 14:23:59 GMT -5 bowser said:

Thanks, flatlander.
Just overthinking things and otherwise driving myself crazy in the silence here...

As a former supervisor (and SSA job reference ) of mine was fond of saying in response to that phrase, "that's not a drive, it's a short putt!"

Tick, tock . . . so close and yet so far.

[oldschool]

Also, at your current position, can you expect to make about 40 percent or so more than you are now, as is the case with ALJ pay?

[workdrone]

Jul 19, 2010 13:48:09 GMT -5 flatlander said:

If you take an ALJ position in the same locality, you will not get a smaller salary. Period.

However, (please correct me if you have any experience other than as stated here), it is definitely possible to actually have a temporary decrease in total pay (basic pay plus locality pay) if you are a senior GS14 or GS15 and move from a location with a very high locality pay to one with a significantly lower locality pay. I imagine this is not a problem for the majority of applicants, though I do not know. In any event, my eyeball assessment is that the problem would only last one year, and you would be much better off in the following years.

Well done. Your analysis is correct. The big thing about ALJ pay is that you go from 118k to 165k in 7 years, going from 3A - 3D in the first 3 years, and 3E and 3F are two years a step after that. And this progression could be even quicker if you live in a high locality pay area and/or get a management step bump along the way.

Here's the detailed pay table: www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/html/alj_loc.asp

Compared to the pay progression on the GS schedule (something that takes like 18 years from step 1 to step 10), ALJ pay progression is something befitting a senior level employee.

Good luck!

[iapplied]

Thanks bowser for asking this question more clearly than I did! Thanks to all who provided answers.

There's so much to consider before taking this job! I'm glad they are giving us three days to respond if we get the offer.

[gopack927]

Flatlander and Well did a good job of answering the question so clearly - nicely done!