3 strikes and you are not out

[allrise]

My buddy had a high 80's score and had been on many certs. By checking with those who had obtained prior selection info through discovery, it appeared that buddy was 3 striked. Yesterday buddy got the call. (and I did not.)

[hopeful92]

Would you mind explaining 3 strike?

[71stretch]

There are a lot of threads on that subject already that you can find with a search on strike or struck. There have been others who thought that they had been three struck, and then subsequently got a call. The agency is not REQUIRED to not further consider anyone who has been specifically considered for three positions and not chosen. So, that status can change. The fact that there is a new group of people at the top in ODAR may make a difference, too.

[bygrace4life]

Very encouraging. Did buddy get a promotion or add some relevant new experience between making the first cert and recent selection?

[allrise]

Buddy was already high up and a star of another Federal agency. Nothing changed.

[alj]

Observer53 is exactly right; the agency is not required to eliminate from consideration those who have been passed over three times. Many judges have been considered four or five times and and received a subsequent appointment. And some, as we all know, have been considered three times, and no more.

There is still a small bit of hope for some of you who haven't gotten the call as the agency evidently is going to fill the declinations from the current certificate. It is only a small hope as there aren't many declinations this time around. Out of 114 positions (I believe that is the correct number), only a few have declined.

[71stretch]

That would probably explain the late call that "Volunteer" got this morning. It's always made sense to fill the declinations from the current cert, but they have not done so in the recent past, at least that we could tell. There was one late offer last time that was reported here... don't know the story behind that one.

[hopeful92]

i did search and found discussions on 3 strikes but could you direct me to definition of 3 strikes? Thanks very much. Appreciate it.......

[71stretch]

If you are actually among the top three scores for any city on a given cert, and thereby given consideration for appointment, and are not given an offer, that's a strike. You can be three struck off one cert, if you are in the top three for at least three cities, given bona fide consideration, and are not taken. I'll find the CFR reg for you... someone posted it here.

I can't seem to find the recent post with the regulation and the CFR cite, but here is part of the legalese: If you aren't in the top three, you aren't given bona fide consideration, so there's no strike:


Bona Fide Consideration. An applicant receives bona fide consideration when his or her name is within the group of three eligible candidates referred to the selecting official on a certificate list and a legal appointment is made from the certificate. Each eligible candidate is entitled to three bona fide considerations for the same appointment before he or she can be eliminated from consideration.

(emphasis mine)

"same appointment" means as an ALJ for a given agency.

[barkley]

I think there is some confusion here. (Gosh is that an understatement - who really understands this process!) There is a difference between (1) being considered three times and not hired and (2) being "three striked."

SSA has to consider the top three scores for each slot. If they have multiple slots, a top score just has to be considered three times, even if they are elgible for 30 slots being filled. The big mystery is how SSA decides which slots to fill first, as that order can impact which names/scores come out on top for consideration.

There are some canidates, for reasons unknown, SSA decided that forevermore they did not want to select. These folks were considered three times. Even though OPM forwards their names on subsequent certs, SSA does not have to consider them because they have been considered three times for an ALJ position and they do not have to consider them again. These people have been "three striked" and they are out.

There are other candidates who were considered three times (or more) on a cert and not picked. Later, when OPM forwarded their names again, they were considered and selected. You can't really say these people have been "three striked" because although they have not been selected, SSA is still willing to consider them.

The key thing is just because you are on multiple certs and just because you have not been picked yet, does not mean you have been "three striked."

[71stretch]

Of course, being on multiple certs and not having been picked yet does not mean one has been "three striked".

But, a "three strike" does not mean that a person CANNOT be considered by the agency on a future cert. It's not a mandatory elimination; they are not, as you say permanently, "out". If the agency decides, for whatever reason (like a whole new set of people making the selections, just for instance) to select someone who would fit the definition of having been three struck, they can, and they have.

The rule's clearly NOT mandatory:

5 CFR § 332.405 Three considerations for appointment.
An appointing officer is not required to consider an eligible who has been considered by him for three separate appointments from the same or different certificates for the same position.

(emphasis added)

[hopeful92]

If I have been on two certswith more than 3 cities and passed over and hypothetically they open up exam again and am still on register is it advisable to retake exam again due to 3 strike rule? Thans so much. This is confusing! Also anyone think there will be another cert with current register?

[71stretch]

There will be a "supplemental cert" relatively shortly, from everything that has been said here, to fill vacancies that have come up since February.

There's no way to know for sure whether you have been actually "considered" so far, or whether you were just a space filler to have three applicants for every opening (for 120 theoretical openings, you have to have a cert list of at least 360 names, plus some extras). If you were just a space filler, you haven't been three struck yet.

If the register is "refreshed" with new applications, you can reapply, change your GAL to add more cities, or both. Reapplying has raised most people's scores, which theoretically improves your chances, particularly with other agencies should you get a really high score on retest. A wider GAL can help, too, but as others have said on other threads, don't put a city in your GAL that you would not want to live in for quite a while (or until retirement) as transfers will be harder to get in the future.

[hopeful92]

How many certs were there after 2008 and what were the months? Thanks!

[71stretch]

May 13, 2011 18:16:15 GMT -5 hopeful92 said:

How many certs were there after 2008 and what were the months? Thanks!

Here's the timeline thread, which if you read through it I think covers what you need to know:

www.aljdiscussion.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1511