Attorney Advisor Positions

[oscardog]

I want to start the march to becoming an ALJ. Based on recent posts it looks like a new cert will not happen until 2013. My practice is at a crossroads and becoming an AA seems like a good first step.

As several of you are getting fitted for black dresses, does that lead to a round of AA hiring? If so how does one prepare for hiring? There are no positions on usajobs.com so I hope to take any steps I can to become a good candidate. I am in region IV-- if that matters.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[jcse]

Yes, there will be openings. Create a Job Search agent on USAjobs. You will receive emails when an opening occurs. You can limit the agent to a particular region, but you will have better chances if you are willing to travel. Same goes for the march to ALJ. The job series for attorneys is 0905, or search "attorney advisor". Good luck.

[prescient]

Also, be sure to check the job boards of your local law schools. The trend during the past 2 years has been to primarily hire AAs not using USAjobs...

[oldschool]

oscardog, are you currently on the ALJ register? If not, it is not a sure thing. I do not know what the "new" ALJ hiring obstacle course will look like, but it is not a sure thing, regardless of the impressiveness of your qualifications. The AA job has a number of positive things going for it - flexiplace, no travel, 8 hour workday, paid federal holidays, benefits, etc., but it is not for everyone. After a few years of writing decisions you might get tired of the monotony. There is a chance you can advance to senior attorney or get into management if you do not make ALJ. I know of at least a couple of people who had outside experience but gambled and joined the agency to get noticed and were picked up as ALJs, so it can work. But those folks were already on the register. So you will need to consider whether the AA career progression is for you if you don't selected.

[coralshell]

As already mentioned USAJOBS is where these positions are frequently advertised. However, it seems like hearing offices have flexibility on how they hire attorney advisors. I typically tell attorneys who are interested in working for one or more hearing office(s) to contact each of the hearing office director(s) and inquire from the hearing office director how each of them solicit for and hire attorney advisors when needed. Alternatively, you can send a cover letter expressing your interest with a copy of your resume to each hearing office where you would like to work.

[booney58]

Don't want to rain on your parade, but: I am an AA in region IV. Yes, the job has good aspects e.g. flexiplace, flextime, not working ridiculous hours, etc. But writing decisions day after day, and having to do the job of ALJs who are either too lazy or too dumb to do it themselves, can get a bit tedious. It is also not easy to get promoted or transferred. Senior attorney positions are in very short supply; if you are willing to be a group supervisor, you might have better luck moving up to a GS-13. Also, the Agency pays lip service to the "quality over quantity" concept, but in my office the pressure to put out more and more decisions is unrelenting. In short, if you show up, work hard, and take pride in your work, chances are you will simply be taken advantage of, and passed over for promotion time and time again until you either file an EEOC complaint or leave the Agency.

Any questions?

[arkstfan]

Don't take it to become an ALJ. I can introduce you to several who had very good scores who have been on several certs and still haven't received the call.

Like much of the legal profession now, it is factory work. If you are working at foreclosure or debt collection or personal injury firm, you are probably already doing factory work.

If you want recognition for your work, you will end up unhappy and probably bitter.

I enjoyed the work, reading the files was interesting, I came to work between 6:30 and 8:30 depending on what was going on at home. Hoarded credit hours and grabbed all the overtime I could. I left a prestige job with a state agency that I really found challenging and enjoyable, but being an AA meant more money (my state is tight on salaries) and more flexibility than I had even when I was in private practice.

AA is one of the best attorney jobs out there if your life revolves around what happens outside of your job. It's nice to be able to log long hours M-Th and then take off early on Friday to go help at a local food bank or come in early every day so you can pick the kids up from school.

But you have to be able to get your work satisfaction from knowing you dug through a record and found the key item that may help the decision withstand appeal and you have to turn off your inclination to armchair quarterback every decision the judges make.

[maquereau]

I largely agree with arkstfan. I also came into ODAR and took an AA position after several years in private practice. After awhile I made SA, which then helped me to make the ALJ position. It can be done, though there is no guarantee of course. Despite the pressure to produce, which, trust me, is felt not only by AAs, I really focused on trying to produce quality drafts/decisions. I was never at the top of the production chart, but pretty much almost never had anything returned to me for editing either. I think that approach helped me more. I had plenty of complaints about ALJs when I was writing draft decisions, and now that I'm signing the decisions I've got plenty of complaints about the writing. It's the nature of our jobs here. All that being said, you can have a really good quality of life working for SSA. I'm glad I did what I did.

[counsel]

I think the best preparation for the ALJ process is trial work. Trial experience is often best found in criminal work. Personally, I think being a prosecutor or public defender teaches the time management and litigation skills important to being a successful Judge.

[oldschool]

Trial work is excellent preparation for being an ALJ in general. I was a civil litigator and I must have taken over 500 depositions through the years. That process, I think, most closely mirrors the testimony in SSA hearings because the questioning is a little more free-wheeling.

[arkstfan]

May 10, 2012 11:22:15 GMT -5 oldschool said:

Trial work is excellent preparation for being an ALJ in general. I was a civil litigator and I must have taken over 500 depositions through the years. That process, I think, most closely mirrors the testimony in SSA hearings because the questioning is a little more free-wheeling.

Good point about depo questioning. From time to time a rep will ask something that grabs my interest and I'll jump in and follow that trail before giving the witness back and a lot of time with questions about medications the rep is far more helpful than the claimant who remembers he takes like six different pills but can't tell you much other than one is for blood pressure, one is for pain, etc.

I tend to compare being an ALJ to a prosecutor in misdemeanor court. High volume and little chance to get every piece of evidence you would really want to have.

[karaj]

I've never worked for OGC, but they came to our office to do training. I think you will be doing litigation but basically, it will be preparing cases to be heard in DCT and Circuit court. You will be preparing briefs, but the final court brief may be done by a US atty. I heard SSA attorneys sit in on the trials but do not argue. These cases are actually argued by the US Attorney's office. OGC also works on handling internal matters for SSA, such as assisting the IG in fraud cases and in litigating EEO cases by employees against the agency.

[purrfect]

interesting thread. I came to ODAR as an AA, and was lucky to be advanced to SAA (Senior Attorney Advisor) after my 1st year. Now, we have a number of excellent AAs, but no SAA openings - and although quite a number of the SAAs were called for the 2nd ALJ interview, none of us got offers - and the AAs had been hoping a few of us would advance, to leave room for them.

After working for a non-profit for over 7 years, doing only AIDS disability, I was in private practice for 3 years doing volume disability (all kinds). That gave me the exposure with the ALJs in my region, resulting in the inquiry whether I'd be interested in an AA position. Since my private practice job required driving often 500 miles a week, and I was reduced to reading case files every weekend, in order stay on top of 20-30 hearings a week, I thought seriously about this. I had been approached by several ALJs in the same office - all of whom I respected. I knew the change would mean a significant pay cut. I made the decision, however, to make the leap. I transitioned perhaps weeks before the 2008 fiscal melt-down - which did affect my old firm on the financial bottom line. It turns out I would likely have NOT received bonuses (an incredible new concept to someone with a practice history devoted to legal aid work), and I may have been asked to take a pay cut, to retain my old position (based on some of the news that filtered back to me, after the fact).

I took the AA / SAA job as a transition to an ALJ position - this is not a wise move, mentally. If you have the expectation that this simply will be a brief stepping stone to something else, then you will not appeciate the benefits the job does offer - no matter how good - because you keep waiting for that next step to make itself available to you.

That being said, I am glad I made this move. The financial security is very important right now. I ended up losing my rent-control housing 2 years after I changed jobs, and had to move out of the county to find affordable, safe housing, where I could keep my pets. That move would not have been possible without the flexiplace and flex-time options of a federal position. Such a move would have been impossible in my prior position, despite the higher salary. I also should add that for about 5 1/2 of my over 7 years with the AIDS organization (as well as for all 3 1/2 of my prior 3 1/2 years of legal aid work before the AIDS job), I knew my position might be eliminated in 6-12 months, due to funding concerns. So, job security is a very important "perk" for me.

Finally, the ALJS and HOCALs of this office, during my tenure to date, have repeatedly said that ODAR likes to hire from within, because of the higher familiarity with the administrative law. I do know private practice attys who've been hired as ALJs, but I also have seen AAs and SAAs move up.

Understand that if you choose to transition from a private practice to an AA position, you are looking forward to some nice benefits (such as job security, as we may be on the brink of another economic melt-down, QE-3, dissolution of the Euro-zone, etc.), but if you will have this job for 3-10 years, will you be happy? Consider you may face a 50% or more pay cut, and remember that while you will have step increases, federal Cost of Living Adjustments currently are frozen. Consider also that you will spend most of your time writing denials. Many ALJs will do bench decisions on the grants. Many (if not most) of the denials assigned to you will be correct. Even as a seated ALJ, you have to turn down many cases. Private reps do not always think about this, because they look for fine-line detail / error to take the case up on appeal (and at least recover EAJA fees, if not a reversal for payment of benefits). That can make the practice profitable, and can make the litigator feel successful. That distinction is not available to you as an AA or SAA.

Personally, I miss the clients immensely, even all of those whom I had to advise to withdraw (and there were a lot of them, unfortunately). Now, I look forward to the unworked cases I am able to review, for a possible grant (DWR)- but it does not mean I can pay them. I relish the cases where I find missed evidence, convincing the ALJ that a denial should be a paid case. In 4 years, I've had about 8 of those. I also have had 1-2 cases where I had to advise the ALJ that the grant had to be a denial, usually because of a missed DLI problem. I see MANY MANY denials which are appropriate, and this means I spend most of my day helping ODAR turn people down. When the day is over, I drive 90 minutes home, to my own home (and my first home), my cats, and my garden (which includes multiple fruit trees, 8 fruit-bearing blueberry bushes, and my 2nd season of home-grown vegetables).

... and I am wondering when / if ever I may be selected as an ALJ (which, I know, would mean possible relocation, and loss of flexi-place for the 1st year - meaning that my driving would double, even if I am lucky to get an opening in my current office)...

[alj2009]

Hi all, I wasn't sure where to post this, so I took a chance and put it here. I have a paralegal friend where I work who is looking to make a job change. I was wondering if anyone could advise me what to advise him as to how or where to start a job search at SSA or other federal agency. He is very experienced.

Thanks to anyone, everyone.

[arkstfan]

Sept 21, 2012 10:41:25 GMT -5 alj2009 said:

Hi all, I wasn't sure where to post this, so I took a chance and put it here. I have a paralegal friend where I work who is looking to make a job change. I was wondering if anyone could advise me what to advise him as to how or where to start a job search at SSA or other federal agency. He is very experienced.

Thanks to anyone, everyone.

To my knowledge SSA will not hire a paralegal in the so-called paralegal positions (also called non-attorney writer) unless they are already with the agency as a clerk. USAJOBS is the place to start.

[eyre44]

Sept 28, 2012 17:00:19 GMT -5 arkstfan said:

To my knowledge SSA will not hire a paralegal in the so-called paralegal positions (also called non-attorney writer) unless they are already with the agency as a clerk. USAJOBS is the place to start.

Actually, that's not true. At least two non agency paralegals have been hired into my office in the last year (through job postings on USAJOBS). One wasn't even a government employee before being hired. Now how common it is, that I can't say. I spent a lot of time in another region that had not hired any paralegals, agency or non agency, in more than 10 years.

[usnjudge]

Concur with Eyre44. IMHO>>> Me thinks another urban legend..."only insiders get hired" - or equally inaccurate, "to the exclusion of more highly qualified candidates, there is an absolute preference for insiders when SSA/ODAR positions are advertised". I think there is a natural tendancy to put the habeus grabus on an insider but that I believe is only one factor among a vast array of relevant hiring requirements. I am living proof. In my short time with the agency, I've seen many others hired from outside the agency - and within, some being "promoted". I sincerely believe the agency is looking for the best possible folks to meet their statutory responsibility. Do they succeed? I guess the debate could/would be open and without end.

[southernmiss]

I have been an AA, a SA, and now an ALJ. This is strictly opinion.

The AA job is the most boring and frustrating. It's ok for a few years, but after that, you become brain dead. Even trying to produce a decent decision from lousy or incorrect instructions gets old (at one time, it was a challenge). I have advised all new attorneys over the years that it has benefits: little stress, no overhead, no malpractice insurance, paid vacations, retirement, etc. It is also very secure when security is no longer evident in most of corporate America or in private practice. The bad news is you hardly ever had a chance at promotion. That is changing, but only if you have other experience to add to your resume or have been with agency long enough to get a good reputation, both in terms of production and being a team player.

The SA position is really a good one. It used to allow us to make Decisions as well as write. There was very little interference, in my office, with my product, so I really enjoyed the autonomy. I also learned new things and it wasn't so boring. I understand that there is little actual reviewing and Decision Making going on now, so it may not be as attractive.

As a new ALJ, I see things in a different perspective. There is more pressure in this job insofar as numbers are concerned. I believe I have heard that we are supposed to spend a TOTAL of 2 1/2 hours per case-from the initial review, to the hearing, to writing instructions, to correcting and signing. Trust me, that is not enough time. I am conscientious and, having had experience as a writer, I try to give good instructions. But, I really don't have the time to review the case as I did as a writer. So, I probably seem a lot dumber to my writers than I am.

The bottom line is this-if you want security rather than challenge, take the AA position. Do not count on anything else. If it comes along, take it. As one of my friends once put it, she did her job but found other outlets for her interests and challenges.

You will never be really rich, but you will never be poor.

[philliesfan]

I agree with southernmiss, but there are a couple of other perks with the AA job. After two years you can work at home two days a week and if you chose, with the permission of management, you can do other legal work as long as it is not on agency time and is not a conflict of interest.

You can also look to get into management as a Group Supervisor or apply for openings in Headquarters in Falls Church. Several high level Headquarters people, including the Chair of the Appeals Council, began their careers as AAs.

[bartleby]

Not to bust anyone's balloon or anything, but, we had two attorney-advisors fired within two weeks of their two year anniversary, one for incompetence, and one for not meeting numerical standards. The consensus of the Judges in the office was that the low producing attorney was the best writer in the office. I don't think the security of the position is there any longer. I would have to think long and hard before taking that job.. Sorry, but it is what it is and it ain't what it used to be.