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Post by hurryupandwait on Jun 30, 2016 7:09:58 GMT -5
I just read this thread and a few others. To the elder members on the board is there any way you can provide Intel on ODAR offices that are well run and others we should avoid, if offered a position. Basically which offices should we keep on the GAL and which should be removed.
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Post by Pixie on Jun 30, 2016 7:21:11 GMT -5
I just read this thread and a few others. To the elder members on the board is there any way you can provide Intel on ODAR offices that are well run and others we should avoid, if offered a position. Basically which offices should we keep on the GAL and which should be removed. Probably impossible to single out the good offices and the not so good offices. Make your decision based on the location, not the perceived quality of the office. What is a good office today, can become a not so good office tomorrow. A change in the staff, judges, or more importantly, management, can change the flavor of an office. I have seen it happen in several offices. It is easy to turn a good office into a less desirable office, but can take years to turn a bad office into good.
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 30, 2016 7:43:07 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is going to trash any office in an open forum. But....I will say that as a very general rule, the smaller the office the less problems it has. In another sense, the more crapland a location is, the better the office is. Again, in a very general sense. I know some excellent offices that are large but very well run.
Factors that play into quality of life, in order of impact, and based entirely on my own opinion:
Size of the file. In some offices the average size file may be 1000 pages. In others, 200. Yet, judges in each get the same total 2.5 to 3 hours on each case. From what I gather, larger metro areas with more healthcare options, specifically charity options, have larger files. Poorer, rural areas where it's hard for the destitute to get care, have smaller files. Sad, but true. Also, if the service area has a large VA medical facility....huge files. And VA medical records are the biggest PITA to review.
Quality of the writers. Some offices have outstanding writers, some have horrible ones. Most have a mix of the two. This really doesn't matter if the office is small or large, urban or rural. And, with so many cases being written outside the office this factor is becoming less of an issue. Still, if you have to spend a great percentage of your 2.5 to 3 hours in a case editing the decision...well, your life sucks.
Local management. If office management is well run, respects the role of ALJs, realizes everyone in the building is there to help the ALJs get cases out the door and stands up for its ALJs when higher ups come down on them, offering to help remove obstacles rather than just piling on the complaints...life is good. If not, miserable.
Office staff. Like the writers, this isn't controlled by size or location of the office. Some offices seem to focus the staff on hitting their "workup" numbers without regard for quality. Files have duplicates, things aren't exhibited, little to no detail entered other than "Ex 2F". Others, the staff is great. The file has no duplicates, everything is exhibited correctly, proffered when it needs to be etc. And, good notes that really help the alj are entered. Things like " See the TP opinion at page 3 of 2F" or "Ev of DAA in 5f p 5" or ""post onset earnings appear to be below SGA". A well put together file done by staff that know what they are doing and seeing and take the time to do it right is a help for the alj beyond compare.
Office culture. Some offices in ODAR the staff interacts like family. There are Holiday and birthday parties. Off campus get togethers to celebrate the end of the fiscal year, someone's promotion, etc. There's always fresh baked goods or something in the breakroom. People laugh and joke and interact well together. In some offices, the culture is more "this is a gov job and no one is going to ask me to do anything not in my job description and if I am offended by anything I am filing a grievance and an EEO complaint." Some offices only remember we have union stewards and LARs when there is a new contract to ratify. Others the union people have a revolving door on their office.
Rep Bar. Some rep bars are completely worthless. They come in, meet the claimant the day of the hearing, have never looked at the file, present 500 pages of evidence on the day of hearing, then sit there like a mute during the hearing expecting the ALJ to do all the questioning. Some reps are great. They know their case, know the law, put together pre-hearing briefs that are actually on point and do a great job narrowing the issues. A good rep is an immeasurable help. A bad one can ruin your day and hurt the claimant.
Regional Management. Some regions are just known to be micromanagers. A case gets a day past the benchmarks and there's an email. A hearing gets postponed, there's an email. Others, not so much. Some regions have at least unofficial policies regarding how the hearings are going to be scheduled (IE, week on, week off) others leave that entirely to the ALJs. Some regions aren't fond of allowing an alj to travel. Others don't seem to care.
So, while I wont say on a public forum which offices I have heard about that I would never, ever, ever, ever, be willing to go to....I will say that the above factors are generally what make the difference and you can sort of figure most of them out with a little research here and about the area.
Funk
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misha
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Post by misha on Jun 30, 2016 7:48:20 GMT -5
Dear Colleagues, it is nearing my 3d anniversary as an ALJ and I am sorry to write that I am really disillusioned. I am looking for another job so that one of you may take my place. It is no wonder so many are retiring. Like you, I waited, agonized, and was mortified, after not being selected in 2008. By fluke, I was called in 2012. By then, I had given up. Realize that your Higher Power works in mysterious ways. For those not selected in this round, do not despair, but realize, it is NOT, I repeat NOT, the dream job you imagine.. I need to tell you, after 3 yrs. w/ this agency as an ALJ (and I was an insider), I am horribly disillusioned. I feel I just can't do it anymore under Bice and EBP. This system is broken..it is just not working. I applaud the Offices who have rejected EBP, but these are a minority. SSA demands we comply w/ EBP. SSA and ODAR are not on the same wavelength. If you care about the claimants and care about handling the cases with the highest degree of professional responsibility, you may come to realize that it is not going to happen at ODAR. You will likely be handling these cases on your own, bogged down with burdensome clerical responsibilities, typing your own instructions, and harassed by a management that is insensitive to your plight and who will be constantly pressuring you to hear more cases, while monitoring your overdue statuses. Good luck to all. Karaj: This is one of the best and most honest posts that I have ever read in this forum. I know one judge who took early retirement after a few years on the job for the reasons cited above. He initially intended to do the job for the next 15 or so years and age-out gracefully. I also have a friend, currently on the bench for a few years, and I cannot help but wonder if you are that friend! She says the exact same things. She was once a senior attorney. That said, your profile pic is not her style. I left ODAR as a decision writer after two years due, in part, to a highly dysfunctional office with a very bad reputation in the region. It ranked on the bottom of the list nationwide with respect to processing time and production numbers- and I certainly saw why. I cannot help but wonder if I should have simply put in for a transfer rather than returning to private practice. The neighboring ODAR only required a 10 to 15-minute longer commute, and it was a much more harmonious place to be. In retrospect, I regret not putting in for a transfer. (I should add that another Senior Attorney friend was equally frustrated with that particular office. Unlike me, she did put in for a transfer. It came within months and she was much happier at the other office.)
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Post by juniata on Jun 30, 2016 10:14:32 GMT -5
I agree with everything Funky posted. The level of support and general office culture varies widely.
That said, one of the main benefits of this job is the transfer policy. If you are in a dysfunctional office, you will be able to transfer to a better office if your family circumstances allow. As Misha noted, in many areas there are multiple offices and while transferring may require a bit more a drive, the increase in mental stability could make the additional time in the car worth it. After the first year, telework also kicks in which helps reduce the effect of a longer commute.
As to knowing which offices are "good" and "bad," I don't think anyone should trash any office on this forum. If you have a specific office you are considering, you can ask for private messages about that office and may get a response. If you have limited mobility and no close transfer options if the office is not a good fit, I understand wanting to ask questions in advance.
If you do not have constraints on your ability to move, I would recommend going anywhere the agency gives you an offer, and then start looking for your ideal transfer office. Once you are inside the agency, it is pretty easy to get information about the culture of other offices. You will have people from all over the country in your training class, and with the mobility allowed through the transfer process, you will likely either know someone in offices you are considering, or your classmates will know someone in their offices who has worked in those offices in the past. Over half the SSA ALJs I know have transferred offices at least once. You may also get lucky and love your office. My classmates who were initially assigned to the "crapland" offices seemed to have only good things to say about their offices.
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misha
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Post by misha on Jun 30, 2016 11:29:10 GMT -5
What Juniata said.
I would hate to see a good ALJ disappear after all that training and hard work. I suppose the final question regards whether the problems that you are having and your overall sense of discouragement are particular to that office, or is your dissatisfaction related to the job itself- the latter not being remedied by a transfer, of course.
It is probably a mix of both, in which case put the specific negatives directly related to your office on one side of the scale and then place the negatives as they relate to the system at large on the other side of the scale. How far does the weight go down on either side? Are the negatives particular to your office likely to lessen, if not entirely disappear, if you transfer? Sometimes the solution can be that easy.
I wish I did such an analysis before leaving my job at ODAR. The scale would have told me to transfer.
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Jun 30, 2016 12:49:01 GMT -5
What Juniata said. I would hate to see a good ALJ disappear after all that training and hard work. I suppose the final question regards whether the problems that you are having and your overall sense of discouragement are particular to that office, or is your dissatisfaction related to the job itself- the latter not being remedied by a transfer, of course. It is probably a mix of both, in which case put the specific negatives directly related to your office on one side of the scale and then place the negatives as they relate to the system at large on the other side of the scale. How far does the weight go down on either side? Are the negatives particular to your office likely to lessen, if not entirely disappear, if you transfer? Sometimes the solution can be that easy. I wish I did such an analysis before leaving my job at ODAR. The scale would have told me to transfer. Well I am a newbie so can't comment on the value of the ALJ gig. In the early dawn of my career I was a law clerk for an agency - then left for approx 25 years of private practice - then returned to be a fed about 7 or so years ago. There are definite advantages to being a fed. Obviously the ALJ salary is nice - but it is all the additional financial benefits that can not also be over looked and often is by those comparing salary in public sector to private. Many private law firms of relative size have good health insurance and a 401k. But is there matching into that 401k? - gov't TSP does have matching (% depends on when you start fed service), additionally there is the amount paid into the gov't annuity. When you retire from federal service you have 3 sources of income, ss payment, tsp payment and gov't annuity. Not too many private sector jobs have that. Plus you get to keep your health insurance plan - paying employee rates. There is a longterm disability plan you can buy... ok that speaks to retirement. While you are in the gov't - your choice of insurance plans is - frankly overwhelming... it is not just here is the plan we as a company decided we could afford- deal with it. There is a whole thread dealing with benefits - so I won't go into each benefit here. My point is that there are some nice benefits that are rarely matched in the private legal sector. The other thing going for the fed ALJ gig (actually for most fed jobs) - is job security. I can personally tell you law firms are not guaranteeing any job security even if you are a partner. There is no pressure to rain make in the Gov't. Sure there is pressure to get your work done and apparently a case quota.... folks there is pressure in the private sector as well. What seems very attractive to me from the outside is that as between ODAR and OMHA it seems relatively easy to transfer and there are so many location choices! I have 2 college age kids - in this age of mobility I expect as they move on with their adult lives they may not remain in their hometown - so this job will let me potentially move nearby or perhaps pick a "cool" spot that they love to visit. Bored with disability cases? Keep an open eye for ALJ slots in other agencies that follow a more adversarial model or that cover an area of law that you enjoy. Like anything, job satisfaction is something that we each need to step up to the plate and be responsible for individually. I would also point out that it is often better to focus on the positive things we are dealing with then the negative.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 30, 2016 16:07:05 GMT -5
Dear Colleagues, it is nearing my 3d anniversary as an ALJ and I am sorry to write that I am really disillusioned. I am looking for another job so that one of you may take my place. It is no wonder so many are retiring. Like you, I waited, agonized, and was mortified, after not being selected in 2008. By fluke, I was called in 2012. By then, I had given up. Realize that your Higher Power works in mysterious ways. For those not selected in this round, do not despair, but realize, it is NOT, I repeat NOT, the dream job you imagine.. I need to tell you, after 3 yrs. w/ this agency as an ALJ (and I was an insider), I am horribly disillusioned. I feel I just can't do it anymore under Bice and EBP. This system is broken..it is just not working. I applaud the Offices who have rejected EBP, but these are a minority. SSA demands we comply w/ EBP. SSA and ODAR are not on the same wavelength. If you care about the claimants and care about handling the cases with the highest degree of professional responsibility, you may come to realize that it is not going to happen at ODAR. You will likely be handling these cases on your own, bogged down with burdensome clerical responsibilities, typing your own instructions, and harassed by a management that is insensitive to your plight and who will be constantly pressuring you to hear more cases, while monitoring your overdue statuses. Good luck to all. Karaj: This is one of the best and most honest posts that I have ever read in this forum. I know one judge who took early retirement after a few years on the job for the reasons cited above. He initially intended to do the job for the next 15 or so years and age-out gracefully. I also have a friend, currently on the bench for a few years, and I cannot help but wonder if you are that friend! She says the exact same things. She was once a senior attorney. That said, your profile pic is not her style. I left ODAR as a decision writer after two years due, in part, to a highly dysfunctional office with a very bad reputation in the region. It ranked on the bottom of the list nationwide with respect to processing time and production numbers- and I certainly saw why. I cannot help but wonder if I should have simply put in for a transfer rather than returning to private practice. The neighboring ODAR only required a 10 to 15-minute longer commute, and it was a much more harmonious place to be. In retrospect, I regret not putting in for a transfer. (I should add that another Senior Attorney friend was equally frustrated with that particular office. Unlike me, she did put in for a transfer. It came within months and she was much happier at the other office.) Maybe they should transfer to another Agency. They can be as different as law firm A and law firm B doing criminal law versus patents. I remember karaj well and her difficulties. She always struck me as a very good and capable Judge--one who is compassionate and kind. However, I also think that the procedural grind she talks about coupled with the realities of heartbreak and destitution that is the daily transcript must, at some point, be truly difficult for her. I wish her happiness.
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Post by bayou on Jun 30, 2016 16:09:31 GMT -5
I just read this thread and a few others. To the elder members on the board is there any way you can provide Intel on ODAR offices that are well run and others we should avoid, if offered a position. Basically which offices should we keep on the GAL and which should be removed. Given how difficult it is to get an ALJ job, isn't this a transfer question rather than an accept the job question? If the location is an acceptable location to you, it seems that you should be willing to accept the job regardless of the office culture. Now, if you are looking to transfer, then this issue is a big deal.
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Post by phoenixrakkasan on Jun 30, 2016 16:26:58 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is going to trash any office in an open forum. But....I will say that as a very general rule, the smaller the office the less problems it has. In another sense, the more crapland a location is, the better the office is. Again, in a very general sense. I know some excellent offices that are large but very well run. Factors that play into quality of life, in order of impact, and based entirely on my own opinion: Size of the file. In some offices the average size file may be 1000 pages. In others, 200. Yet, judges in each get the same total 2.5 to 3 hours on each case. From what I gather, larger metro areas with more healthcare options, specifically charity options, have larger files. Poorer, rural areas where it's hard for the destitute to get care, have smaller files. Sad, but true. Also, if the service area has a large VA medical facility....huge files. And VA medical records are the biggest PITA to review. Quality of the writers. Some offices have outstanding writers, some have horrible ones. Most have a mix of the two. This really doesn't matter if the office is small or large, urban or rural. And, with so many cases being written outside the office this factor is becoming less of an issue. Still, if you have to spend a great percentage of your 2.5 to 3 hours in a case editing the decision...well, your life sucks. Local management. If office management is well run, respects the role of ALJs, realizes everyone in the building is there to help the ALJs get cases out the door and stands up for its ALJs when higher ups come down on them, offering to help remove obstacles rather than just piling on the complaints...life is good. If not, miserable. Office staff. Like the writers, this isn't controlled by size or location of the office. Some offices seem to focus the staff on hitting their "workup" numbers without regard for quality. Files have duplicates, things aren't exhibited, little to no detail entered other than "Ex 2F". Others, the staff is great. The file has no duplicates, everything is exhibited correctly, proffered when it needs to be etc. And, good notes that really help the alj are entered. Things like " See the TP opinion at page 3 of 2F" or "Ev of DAA in 5f p 5" or ""post onset earnings appear to be below SGA". A well put together file done by staff that know what they are doing and seeing and take the time to do it right is a help for the alj beyond compare. Office culture. Some offices in ODAR the staff interacts like family. There are Holiday and birthday parties. Off campus get togethers to celebrate the end of the fiscal year, someone's promotion, etc. There's always fresh baked goods or something in the breakroom. People laugh and joke and interact well together. In some offices, the culture is more "this is a gov job and no one is going to ask me to do anything not in my job description and if I am offended by anything I am filing a grievance and an EEO complaint." Some offices only remember we have union stewards and LARs when there is a new contract to ratify. Others the union people have a revolving door on their office. Rep Bar. Some rep bars are completely worthless. They come in, meet the claimant the day of the hearing, have never looked at the file, present 500 pages of evidence on the day of hearing, then sit there like a mute during the hearing expecting the ALJ to do all the questioning. Some reps are great. They know their case, know the law, put together pre-hearing briefs that are actually on point and do a great job narrowing the issues. A good rep is an immeasurable help. A bad one can ruin your day and hurt the claimant. Regional Management. Some regions are just known to be micromanagers. A case gets a day past the benchmarks and there's an email. A hearing gets postponed, there's an email. Others, not so much. Some regions have at least unofficial policies regarding how the hearings are going to be scheduled (IE, week on, week off) others leave that entirely to the ALJs. Some regions aren't fond of allowing an alj to travel. Others don't seem to care. So, while I wont say on a public forum which offices I have heard about that I would never, ever, ever, ever, be willing to go to....I will say that the above factors are generally what make the difference and you can sort of figure most of them out with a little research here and about the area. Funk Posts like these should serve as an opportunity to examine any decision to retire from the Board. Needing time off and emotional detachment, does not require the severance of all Board interaction. Mr. Brown did not quit when facing adversity. Why should one with Funk do otherwise?
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Post by foghorn on Jun 30, 2016 17:55:45 GMT -5
Karaj refered to "Bice" and "EBT" as things that made ODAR less attractive. What are they?
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 30, 2016 18:00:01 GMT -5
Bice is the chief judge. Ocalj.
EBP is the electronic business process.
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Post by montyburns on Jun 30, 2016 20:00:26 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is going to trash any office in an open forum. But....I will say that as a very general rule, the smaller the office the less problems it has. In another sense, the more crapland a location is, the better the office is. Again, in a very general sense. I know some excellent offices that are large but very well run. Factors that play into quality of life, in order of impact, and based entirely on my own opinion: Size of the file. In some offices the average size file may be 1000 pages. In others, 200. Yet, judges in each get the same total 2.5 to 3 hours on each case. From what I gather, larger metro areas with more healthcare options, specifically charity options, have larger files. Poorer, rural areas where it's hard for the destitute to get care, have smaller files. Sad, but true. Also, if the service area has a large VA medical facility....huge files. And VA medical records are the biggest PITA to review. Quality of the writers. Some offices have outstanding writers, some have horrible ones. Most have a mix of the two. This really doesn't matter if the office is small or large, urban or rural. And, with so many cases being written outside the office this factor is becoming less of an issue. Still, if you have to spend a great percentage of your 2.5 to 3 hours in a case editing the decision...well, your life sucks. Local management. If office management is well run, respects the role of ALJs, realizes everyone in the building is there to help the ALJs get cases out the door and stands up for its ALJs when higher ups come down on them, offering to help remove obstacles rather than just piling on the complaints...life is good. If not, miserable. Office staff. Like the writers, this isn't controlled by size or location of the office. Some offices seem to focus the staff on hitting their "workup" numbers without regard for quality. Files have duplicates, things aren't exhibited, little to no detail entered other than "Ex 2F". Others, the staff is great. The file has no duplicates, everything is exhibited correctly, proffered when it needs to be etc. And, good notes that really help the alj are entered. Things like " See the TP opinion at page 3 of 2F" or "Ev of DAA in 5f p 5" or ""post onset earnings appear to be below SGA". A well put together file done by staff that know what they are doing and seeing and take the time to do it right is a help for the alj beyond compare. Office culture. Some offices in ODAR the staff interacts like family. There are Holiday and birthday parties. Off campus get togethers to celebrate the end of the fiscal year, someone's promotion, etc. There's always fresh baked goods or something in the breakroom. People laugh and joke and interact well together. In some offices, the culture is more "this is a gov job and no one is going to ask me to do anything not in my job description and if I am offended by anything I am filing a grievance and an EEO complaint." Some offices only remember we have union stewards and LARs when there is a new contract to ratify. Others the union people have a revolving door on their office. Rep Bar. Some rep bars are completely worthless. They come in, meet the claimant the day of the hearing, have never looked at the file, present 500 pages of evidence on the day of hearing, then sit there like a mute during the hearing expecting the ALJ to do all the questioning. Some reps are great. They know their case, know the law, put together pre-hearing briefs that are actually on point and do a great job narrowing the issues. A good rep is an immeasurable help. A bad one can ruin your day and hurt the claimant. Regional Management. Some regions are just known to be micromanagers. A case gets a day past the benchmarks and there's an email. A hearing gets postponed, there's an email. Others, not so much. Some regions have at least unofficial policies regarding how the hearings are going to be scheduled (IE, week on, week off) others leave that entirely to the ALJs. Some regions aren't fond of allowing an alj to travel. Others don't seem to care. So, while I wont say on a public forum which offices I have heard about that I would never, ever, ever, ever, be willing to go to....I will say that the above factors are generally what make the difference and you can sort of figure most of them out with a little research here and about the area. Funk Posts like these should serve as an opportunity to examine any decision to retire from the Board. Needing time off and emotional detachment, does not require the severance of all Board interaction. Mr. Brown did not quit when facing adversity. Why should one with Funk do otherwise? Normally I would agree, everyone loves Funk, and his advice is pretty much second to none. However, Funk said he has had this forum as his homepage on all his devices for three years. This is disturbing and strongly suggests that he needs a break.
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 30, 2016 22:37:48 GMT -5
Posts like these should serve as an opportunity to examine any decision to retire from the Board. Needing time off and emotional detachment, does not require the severance of all Board interaction. Mr. Brown did not quit when facing adversity. Why should one with Funk do otherwise? Normally I would agree, everyone loves Funk, and his advice is pretty much second to none. However, Funk said he has had this forum as his homepage on all his devices for three years. This is disturbing and strongly suggests that he needs a break. Disturbing? I think you and I are here for different reasons if you think that is disturbing. I feel for Funk's level of burnout and will respect his decision whether it is to hang it up all together, take a break, or just keep posting but I am not sure everyone really gets the sense of community that some of us feel here. Its not just a place to exchange information its a place to connect with a select group of people that gets "it". I am swamped with figuring the job out and I am not here as much as I used to be. That is probably as it should be but I don't know where I could find the kind neighborhood feel I get here in an online space. Feeling that connection isn't disturbing.
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misha
Full Member
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Post by misha on Jun 30, 2016 22:57:51 GMT -5
Just had a funny thought that I probably should not post before retiring for the night. And yet, I will....
"Meanwhile, on some remote beach in Mexico, a jobless Karaj is happily sipping on a Long Island Ice Tea.... She has no Internet access. For that, she is glad."
As for me, summer vacation starts tomorrow at noon. One week of unplugged bliss. Peace out, ALJ Discussion Board. Until July 11......
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Post by Pixie on Jun 30, 2016 23:02:54 GMT -5
Just had a funny thought that I probably should not post before retiring for the night. And yet, I will.... "Meanwhile, on some remote beach in Mexico, a jobless Karaj is happily sipping on a Long Island Ice Tea.... She has no Internet access. For that, she is glad." As for me, summer vacation starts tomorrow at noon. One week of unplugged bliss. Peace out, ALJ Discussion Board. Until July 11...... Enjoy your time off misha. The board will be here when you get back. Pixie.
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 30, 2016 23:03:17 GMT -5
Just had a funny thought that I probably should not post before retiring for the night. And yet, I will.... "Meanwhile, on some remote beach in Mexico, a jobless Karaj is happily sipping on a Long Island Ice Tea.... She has no Internet access. For that, she is glad." As for me, summer vacation starts tomorrow at noon. One week of unplugged bliss. Peace out, ALJ Discussion Board. Until July 11...... Way down here......
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Post by Pixie on Jun 30, 2016 23:06:08 GMT -5
I don't think she has been online since October or November of 20015.
Getting to Forum Elder is a mechanical function; it is part of what the board does. I have no power over it. Pixie.
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Post by hurryupandwait on Jul 1, 2016 5:13:42 GMT -5
Thank you to all the elder members for the inside Intel and tips on ODAR offices and how they differ. Invaluable information.
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Post by Baymax on Jul 1, 2016 15:54:51 GMT -5
With all of the other agencies that hire ALJs, I would have thought that Karaj may have sought employment as an ALJ at a different agency... But to each his/her own. I think it's obvious that being an ALJ - particularly at ODAR - would be a completely different experience for each individual, and likely different than anything anyone has done before (even as a state ALJ). And each person will adapt and fit into their position differently, some for the better, some not. I for one, am looking forward to it, if/when I get the call.
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