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Post by privateatty on Jul 1, 2016 17:00:29 GMT -5
With all of the other agencies that hire ALJs, I Actually, other than OMHA, the other Agencies fill very few attrition vacancies through hires of sitting Judges (but of course there are a few exceptions when they don't like the Certificate they get).
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Post by redryder on Jul 2, 2016 11:44:31 GMT -5
I was scrolling through this discussion and can understand why someone would give up the ALJ position. Part of that may come from the fact that very few of us have any prior experience as a sitting judge. Consequently I know I tended to think of the position, looking up from my position as support staff. Techs were getting the evidence, writers were reviewing the files and writing the decisions. All of the support staff were letting the judge know if there was a problem anywhere along the line and making suggestions for what needed to be done. What exactly did that ALJ do other than hold the hearings, scribble a few lines of instructions and sign the decision? Looked pretty cushy and easy. Now that I am on the other end and am the ALJ, the picture is not the same.
Techs are working up the files and ordering updated medical from the sources identified in the file. And they know my standing orders for experts at hearing. However, they cannot schedule those hearings until I give them my dates. When they are scheduling cases 90 days prior to the hearing, that means I am giving dates in July for hearings to be held in October. And that, my friends, puts a serious crimp in the idea that you come and go as you please. You are making long-term commitments to hold hearings.
The writers are doing their jobs. But not all writers, just like anyone else, are created equal. When I worked as a writer, I wrote for 1 judge only. I knew what he wanted and expected. Consequently, he could give very brief instructions and I was able to flesh them out. Now I have every writer in the office as well as writers in far away places doing the decisions. So I write decisions for the lowest common denominator--the brand new writer with little experience. For some, these instructions are overkill but again I have no idea who the writer will be.
I don't use the electronic bench book, but that doesn't mean I don't review the files. And no matter what tools I have at my disposal, I still have to decide what questions to ask that vocational expert and craft them to fit each case. Sure a lot of the questions end up being the same thing, until you have claimant missing part of his cranium. How about no jobs where a hard hat is required? That's not in the Dictionary of Occupational Titles or any Social Security guidelines. But you have to be adroit enough to handle these problems.
The job is a grind. My schedule is 5 days of hearings followed by 5 day at my desk. And more often than not, time on the weekend to try to catch up.
What makes my work life tolerable is the office I am blessed to work in. Good support from the technicians, the writers, my fellow judges and the managers. They understand when I need to blow off steam and when I need the encouragement to go on. Because in the midst of all of this, your other life happens too. You will have the sick spouse/child/relative/pet who needs extra time and makes extra demands on you. You have hobbies. You want to take trips and do other things.
In the end, it is a question of balance. And when things are out of balance, you have to decide what it takes to restore that equilibrium. For some, it is a matter of making minor adjustments. For others, it means changing careers.
If you are seeking the ALJ position and know someone who currently holds that job, I strongly suggest you ask if you can spend a day at his/her office and learn as much as you can about this job. If you are already an SSA employee, you have no excuse for not doing it. You will find the judges do a lot more than you imagined.
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Post by ok1956 on Jul 2, 2016 11:55:03 GMT -5
An added twist if you hold hearings by VTC for other offices. I have found that while the work-up our office does is pretty stellar (although I have yet to find any real "review" done by anyone other than me, which means don't expect an alert or notification about something special in the file), that is NOT true across the board. I had a hearing scheduled at the first of the year which, come to find out as I'm reviewing the file, included a request to withdraw hearing request that was over a year old. Very frustrating because had that request been granted when made, another claimant could have had that hearing spot.
I love the job - but I also love to be busy and I haven't been doing it long enough yet that I find it boring or tedious. But I'm a former judge and arbitrator so I have no problem making a decision and moving on. And I love the flexibility to use credit hours for a "mental health day" every other week and to telework at home. And I'm lucky, I work in a fabulous office, with great ALJs, HOD and support staff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 16:04:13 GMT -5
I office with OK1956 and echo her posts. She does point to a crucial difference between those offices that hold hearings more or less in person in the same locale with the same reps over and over again as opposed to offices like ours which I describe as a "Mikey" office. If you are old enough you will remember Mikey the Life cereal TV commercials in that the other kids give their cereal to Mikey to try first as "Mikey will eat anything."
Thus our very Mikey office gets anything and everything from other ODARs as, ... well, we will eat anything.
Our little office, currently just 4 ALJs total with no plans for hire at this time, is small but mighty. We were introduced by the Commissioner this past year as one of the top production offices in the nation, and we are well ahead of processing for this year. We cover hearings for multiple ODARS over 5 states. If your ODAR is behind, we may get your backlog shipped to us to put in on top of our already existing docket. You have a specific ALJ that just cannot get it together, his underproduction will come to us for our "volunteeering" to take over. Example, Judge I know you have a full docket already on Tuesday but can we squeeze two more in from this other ODAR in 15 minutes increments as they are long delayed cases? Or Judge I know you don't usually hold hearings on Monday, but can you do these 6 from XXX ODAR anyway that day?
Sure. That is what we do.
And when covering cases from multiple other ODARs, we see it all in office. And as ok1956 aptly points out many times it just ain't pretty what we see and receive. (We do have particular ODAR offices that we are very familiar with and just cringe when we know we are going to cover their dockets). It is not uncommon for us to receive other office cases where, as ok1956 points out, apparently, getting cases files up to current speed is not a high priority in tht other office. E.g., it is not uncommon for us to receive other office cases where for the not just the past month but for the past 6 to 12 months and longer that exhibits have not been updated, earning records have not been run, the claimant/rep have not been contacted, needed CE/ME exams have not been done, etc. The worst is when we "volunteer" to cover a docket for another office on an emergency basis (as in less than 5 days notice before the docket starts) and we do so, only to find out that these are paper files, several thousands of pages each case and no they have not been updated in the past year.
Or as in such a volunteer docket I had the other week, the sending office apparently "forgot" to send out proper notices of hearings to the VEs, claimants and reps for the whole docket. Getting those, sipping coffee and staring at a large TV monitor showing a while a poor little hearing reporter (not her fault) several hundreds of miles away scrambling on her phone to find anyone at all anywhere who may know what is going on as the clocks ticks away the docket, is simply watching a SNAFU evolve into a full fledged FUBAR.
It is what it is. We do what is necessary, we get the job done and move on.
What exactly goes on and what exactly do they do in some of these other offices, we do wonder aloud more than once in our little Mikey office.
Thus for the newbies and for the ALJ above who after hire became disillusioned with the whole scenario, take the advisories in these posts to heart. The job is NOT a LAW and Order TV style court proceeding. You do NOT get a wood paneled office with a couch and coffee table and side chamber room. You do NOT get a bailiff, and clerks and law clerks et all to assist and serve you. You do NOT get to point at others and be all "judgey".
You do get a nice government office with government computers. You do get a small hearing room that you may sit in with other persons or you may well be there all by your lonesome day after day if you are doing video hearings. You do get to work a minimum of 8 hours per day, but 10-11 hour days are more the norm with additional weekend work at home. You do get to work at home. You do get fantastic benefits. You do get fantastic leave/credit/holidays. You do get to read worldwide posts on just how horrible and miserable a person and idiot you are on DisabilityJudges. You will be bored beyond boredom until the ##@! hits the fan.
And you will be listening over and over to people life stories that the everyone else in the world had said do NOT give these people any help.
And then the United States of America, the world's most powerful entity, looks at you and says, "Well, Judge, it is up to you. You alone tell us what to do."
And if you do your job correctly you will very likely be handing out, with full authority of the United States of America, 15? 17? 20? Millions of dollars on a weekly average.
Very few if any other Federal Judges in the United States have been handed that power and authority or respect.
You will either love it or not.
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Post by banks on Jul 2, 2016 16:37:20 GMT -5
If someone has waited over a year to get a hearing, then you at least owe them the courtesy of looking at him/her, IMO.
Again, I was not there so I don't know what happened. But, yes, I do think it is important to convey the impression that you are paying attention.
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Post by privateatty on Jul 2, 2016 19:30:39 GMT -5
If someone has waited over a year to get a hearing, then you at least owe them the courtesy of looking at him/her, IMO. Again, I was not there so I don't know what happened. But, yes, I do think it is important to convey the impression that you are paying attention. Paying attention by whose standards? The Judge did not establish the record and address the parties? The only avenue of not doing a disservice to the Corps is to pay the requisite level of eye contact? Did any party feel that they were not accorded due process?
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Post by hopefalj on Jul 2, 2016 19:47:49 GMT -5
"And if you do your job correctly you will very likely be handing out, with full authority of the United States of America, 15? 17? 20? Millions of dollars on a weekly average." Jeez, I sure hope not. Even Daugherty might wince at those numbers. Methinks your estimated lifetime benefits may be running a tad high since the last reported estimate was $300k lifetime per award. If you're awarding 50+ favorables a week, I'm not sure you're doing the job correctly.
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Post by banks on Jul 2, 2016 20:28:44 GMT -5
If someone has waited over a year to get a hearing, then you at least owe them the courtesy of looking at him/her, IMO. Again, I was not there so I don't know what happened. But, yes, I do think it is important to convey the impression that you are paying attention. Paying attention by whose standards? The Judge did not establish the record and address the parties? The only avenue of not doing a disservice to the Corps is to pay the requisite level of eye contact? Did any party feel that they were not accorded due process? Well, I guess this could be an SJT scenario. I think that it is important that litigants/claimants feel that they have been heard. If it means looking at them and appearing interested in their story, I don't think that's too much to ask. That's my perspective and apparently you have another.
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noone
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Post by noone on Jul 2, 2016 22:54:35 GMT -5
Dear Colleagues, it is nearing my 3d anniversary as an ALJ and I am sorry to write that I am really disillusioned. I am looking for another job so that one of you may take my place. It is no wonder so many are retiring. Like you, I waited, agonized, and was mortified, after not being selected in 2008. By fluke, I was called in 2012. By then, I had given up. Realize that your Higher Power works in mysterious ways. For those not selected in this round, do not despair, but realize, it is NOT, I repeat NOT, the dream job you imagine.. I need to tell you, after 3 yrs. w/ this agency as an ALJ (and I was an insider), I am horribly disillusioned. I feel I just can't do it anymore under Bice and EBP. This system is broken..it is just not working. I applaud the Offices who have rejected EBP, but these are a minority. SSA demands we comply w/ EBP. SSA and ODAR are not on the same wavelength. If you care about the claimants and care about handling the cases with the highest degree of professional responsibility, you may come to realize that it is not going to happen at ODAR. You will likely be handling these cases on your own, bogged down with burdensome clerical responsibilities, typing your own instructions, and harassed by a management that is insensitive to your plight and who will be constantly pressuring you to hear more cases, while monitoring your overdue statuses. Good luck to all. What did you do prior to becoming an alj?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 8:20:36 GMT -5
Simple math. For 2016, the average SSDI benefit amount is $1,166 per month, but those whose income was fairly high in recent years can receive up to $2,639. Average that to $1850. The significant number of disability recipients for the US are younger, but we will up that average to age 40. SSA studies show that just over 1 in 4 of today's 20 year-olds will become disabled before reaching age 67. But let's not even go there (e.g., 25% of the US population) due to the huge increase of spaces needed and my calculator will not handle those amounts. www.ssa.gov/planners/disability/www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v75n3/v75n3p83.htmlEven then let's round down another 2 years to only assuming 25 years of payout; that would equal a minimum of $555,000.00. Again this could be much much higher based on the individual. But again let's go low average. But note that is just the immediate cash payout to the one individual. One must not forget that the individual's entitlement will also mean additional payouts to dependent children and/or others. And then the bigger hidden payout; medical, hospital, prescription etc, coverage. The latter alone will easily triple if not quadruple the $555,000.00 individual cash payout over life. SSA Trustees report that Medicare alone will double and the Hospital Fund alone will be depleted in 2028 two years earlier than projected. But those are hundreds of billions in costs and I cannot even grasp those additional amounts in my head, so lets not even go there. www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/So lets take a minimum of just doubling, and not even consider the hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional payouts to other dependents and their additional side benefits coverages. So that low average payout to include lifetime medical to an individual would be approximately $1,110,000.00. And again that would be on the very very low side in view of skyrocketing medical care costs. Assuming one just awards favorably 15 cases in a docket out of 30 (50%) that would be a minimal payout of $16,650,000.00 in a week. Or assuming one hits an low average disposition docket of 550 case and awards just half or 275 favorables in a year that would still be a payout of approximately $305,250,000.00 per year per ALJ (multiply that by how many ALJs there are) and that is just to individuals with barely accounting for additional medicare/medicaid payouts and little to no accounting for other dependent's benefits paid. Outside of SSA I don't know of any other federal judges who have authority to dispense such amount of monies.
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Post by privateatty on Jul 3, 2016 8:36:51 GMT -5
Paying attention by whose standards? The Judge did not establish the record and address the parties? The only avenue of not doing a disservice to the Corps is to pay the requisite level of eye contact? Did any party feel that they were not accorded due process? Well, I guess this could be an SJT scenario. I think that it is important that litigants/claimants feel that they have been heard. If it means looking at them and appearing interested in their story, I don't think that's too much to ask. That's my perspective and apparently you have another. banks, I can agree that the best hearing would be where the Judge has no need to look at the record and can engage the Claimant like Pat Sajak on Wheel of Fortune. When you become a Judge do you plan of that level of preparation? Good luck on doing 700 cases a year without doing unpaid overtime. You felt free to castigate a Judge and declare that her hearing was a "disservice" to the whole process. My perspective is that you have us a one sided hearsay declaration. Did the Judge afford the Claimant a proper due process hearing--that is the only real question. Even assuming she (the Judge) did not look up after preliminaries to me means absolutely nothing. If the Claimant feels that they have not been heard then that is their problem or that of their rep to explain to them that it is the job of the Judge to corroborate testimony with the record. Oftentimes, that means looking at the record.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 3, 2016 8:39:50 GMT -5
Not disputing PJ's math at all.
But I remember doing a post on this subject not long ago using the congressional testimony.
They had said the average social security disability claim had a lifetime monetary value of $350,000. That's just ss payments, of course. But, it has that value whether it's favorable or unfavorable, either to the claimant or the trust fund.
So, if you do just the 500 cases a year...that's a value of $175,000,000 a year you are responsible for.
Divided by the 47 weeks a year I work, that's $3,723,404.26 in funds a week.
40 hours week means $93,085.11 an hour.
$1,551.42 a minute.
$25.86 a second.
As PJ mentioned, throw in ancillary benefits and medical entitlements and it's far more.
Very, very humbling.
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Post by onepingonly on Jul 3, 2016 8:47:09 GMT -5
PJ, SSA has published over the last many years that the average payout over the life of a disability claim is about $330,000. Agency officials have testified to that effect before Congress, and that number is widely cited. Let's call it a third of a million, or a million dollars for every three cases.
Now you postulate 30 cases a week. That's 1,500 decisions a year. We're not even permitted to schedule that many nowadays.
Fifteen scheduled cases a week is about the upper limit. Seven or eight favorables a week is probably about as high an average as you could assume. I think it would be an outlier who generates above nine favorables a week, or $3 million. $150 million over 50 weeks of production with no time off but a two-week vacation.
I think your estimate is probably off by at least a factor of two.
But I agree with your fundamental premise. It's a lot of money. Apart from what gets paid out, we can each certainly decide around $200 million (amount in controversy) a year, of the nation's money.
Somebody correct my math if you have better data. Actual numbers should be out there.
ETA, not surprisingly, Funky and I were typing similar things at about the same time. :-)
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Post by privateatty on Jul 3, 2016 8:49:58 GMT -5
I think the monetary responsibility is one thing, the power over one's basic human dignity is another. In my prior lifetime I had a client awaiting work comp benefits that had been wrongly denied forced to live in his car in a northern winter. He got pneumonia and almost died. You SSA reps I'm sure have stories like these by the boatload. Some commit suicide as posted here on these pages.
The transition from attorney to Judge also entails an ability to disassociate one's self from the parade of human misery. Claimant's reps can do this, but it is the lawyer from another type of practice who comes in cold I wonder about.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 8:50:30 GMT -5
I had to finish up mandatory CLE so I decided to watch a SSA CLE. The conversation turned to video hearings and one of the attorneys representing claimants said he had one with an ALJ in California. All he saw was the back of her head because she never looked up. He said she could have been working on something else. I've appeared before some truly horrible judges but I think they have all looked up. If true, time for that ALJ to get another gig. It is a disservice. I do video hearings, approx. 98% of the time. The rep's comment make no sense either logically or physically. I face the video. The rep and claimant's face their video camera. In all cases the cameras are permanently mounted in position and cannot be moved. The only physically possible way that one could ever see the back of my head in any video hearing is by myself spinning completely around on the bench and I hold the hearing, talking to the back wall. That again would not be logically possible as then how would I physically access my computer and keyboard which are now not only behind me, but behind my desk chair. As far as working on something else during a hearing, who does not? When I, the claimant and the VE have already fully discussed the case and then the ill-prepared rep steps in only to begin mindlessly reading a pre-printed script wherein she asks, verbatim, the same questions I have already covered or begins reading a long pre-printed objection to the VE's qualifications, yes, I am going to do other things: answer blinking lync messages, emails, etc. at least until, the claimant have had enough regurgitation.
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Post by privateatty on Jul 3, 2016 9:03:13 GMT -5
I love the job - but I also love to be busy and I haven't been doing it long enough yet that I find it boring or tedious. But I'm a former judge and arbitrator so I have no problem making a decision and moving on. And I love the flexibility to use credit hours for a "mental health day" every other week and to telework at home. And I'm lucky, I work in a fabulous office, with great ALJs, HOD and support staff. I see this post and then I read redryder's who has to work weekends to "catch up". I'm not working at ODAR so I literally don't know anything about what it means to do be a SSA ALJ, but I can't help but wonder if its the attitude or the work ethic (in terms of being very efficient) or a lot of both? redryer has been a Judge for more than a few years on these pages and she is one of a few who feel the job requires more than 40 hrs/week. We have had dozens of posts where Judges have come on and outlined in infinite detail how they get the job done. So please. My point is that if you find yourself in this place, then maybe you need to look at another agency or do an engine breakdown and re-build. Clean the heads, re-bore the pistons and of course change the oil. Could I do a better job if I did 55 hours/wk instead of what I do now? My mentor always told me that once you have the hearing you know which way you are going to go (or you should). The rest of your time after that is making the case for your decision. Works for me, but then I'm one of those guys who always listens to my gut.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 9:03:25 GMT -5
Now you postulate 30 cases a week. That's 1,500 decisions a year. We're not even permitted to schedule that many nowadays. Fifteen scheduled cases a week is about the upper limit. Nope, read carefully. I proposed 15 favorables in a "docket" (not a "week") of 30 cases. How many cases one dockets over what weeks is up to the ALJ. 15 scheduled cases a week as an upper limit for ALJs? Never head of such a thing. I routinely hear a minimum schedule of 24 cases in 3 days, but if "volunteering" to make up for a falling behind ALJ elsewhere, that can easily easily go to 32 in 4 days. I work week on, week off, except the week off also may involve 1 day back in office again to cover 1 to 2 cases for again falling behind offices elsewhere. Then again my August docket is 1 week hearings, 1 week off, 2 weeks hearings. It is what it is. I get paid every other Friday to do the job. I enjoy and like it; no complaints (except for Windows vs. Mac....)
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Post by onepingonly on Jul 3, 2016 9:08:51 GMT -5
Ah. I thought you were extrapolating 30 a week to an annual average. There's a maximum number we can schedule per month (I think it's 60) and per year (800?). Unless I missed the memo again.
Sorry if I misunderstood your math while agreeing with your point. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 9:22:30 GMT -5
no prob.
I don't know of any maximum number of cases permitted to be heard.
I just hear what I am scheduled to hear. If that number goes way over max, so be it, as long as done properly.
Hence, you may get the distinct impression that I (as a union member) do not agree with the union's on going wars about how many dispositions etc an ALJ should or should not do per year. To me, such battles only encourage the other judiciary's view that the job is nothing more than a production line chicken deboner; that ALJs are only mentally competent to do so many XXX cases per year and then no more or no less.
There is a huge backlog of cases. To myself (and many others do differ) putting self-imposed limits on our ability to hear cases is SNAFU.
Doesn't matter to me where, how, when or how often one does cases, just get them heard, competently, and move on.
But I digress.
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Post by alerievay on Jul 3, 2016 10:21:46 GMT -5
I love the job - but I also love to be busy and I haven't been doing it long enough yet that I find it boring or tedious. But I'm a former judge and arbitrator so I have no problem making a decision and moving on. And I love the flexibility to use credit hours for a "mental health day" every other week and to telework at home. And I'm lucky, I work in a fabulous office, with great ALJs, HOD and support staff. I see this post and then I read redryder's who has to work weekends to "catch up". I'm not working at ODAR so I literally don't know anything about what it means to do be a SSA ALJ, but I can't help but wonder if its the attitude or the work ethic (in terms of being very efficient) or a lot of both? redryer has been a Judge for more than a few years on these pages and she is one of a few who feel the job requires more than 40 hrs/week. We have had dozens of posts where Judges have come on and outlined in infinite detail how they get the job done. So please. My point is that if you find yourself in this place, then maybe you need to look at another agency or do an engine breakdown and re-build. Clean the heads, re-bore the pistons and of course change the oil. Could I do a better job if I did 55 hours/wk instead of what I do now? My mentor always told me that once you have the hearing you know which way you are going to go (or you should). The rest of your time after that is making the case for your decision. Works for me, but then I'm one of those guys who always listens to my gut. This reminds me of the U.S. Magistrate Judge I clerked for. He was definitely in favor of a quick decision from the gut versus agonizing over a decision for days or weeks (and then ending up with a decision that might be marginally better - if it was better at all). He worked hard but generally worked no more than his allotted hours and took regular vacations. Another MJ in the same court regularly worked 10+ hour days and rarely took a vacation. She just could not make decisions quickly enough to keep up with her docket and regularly under performed. I'm not an ALJ and am only in the beginning stages, but posts like these remind me a lot of this experience.
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