NOR - Rejection Email Received

[JSteele]

Well I finally received a response via email at 10:35 PM EST, albeit not the one I expected. I have over 7 years of experience litigating at the state administrative hearing level as well as over 7 years as a judge advocate however this is the response I received:

At the time of your application submission, you did not describe your experience sufficiently to clear
the preliminary qualification screening and/or your narrative did not provide sufficient detail to
demonstrate that you completed the full seven years of qualifying experience. You must have
quantified the time associated with any claimed experience in terms of the specific period during which
the experience was acquired, including the month and year for the start and end dates (e.g., May 2006 1320
December 2006). In addition, if qualifying experience examples were provided that overlap with
non-qualifying experience, you must have provided the percentage of time spent on each type of work.

A separate email explaining your appeal rights will follow this message.

I haven't received the appeal email yet. I'll be filing one for sure though! Anyone else receive anything!?!? Also, my status in application manager is still "see details tab" but now under messages it includes the NOR of today. When I first log into USAJOBS under status it says "minimum qualifications not me."

[Deleted]

I literally got the same one.

And I just watched 42, so I'm ready for a fight.

[lawgurrl]

I received the EXACT e-mail you received and I know that I described my experience, putting in dates, which I was very careful to do. The e-mail makes it sound like a bunch of junior high school kids pored over the applications and just got too tired to tossed a bunch in the garbage. I'm appealing. I'm really mad, really, really mad. I've worked at ODAR as an AA/SAA for over 7 years and before that, I was in private practice for a year. They're full of it. I put in months, years, everything!

[lawgurrl]

Do they not count time spent as an Attorney Advisor as "litigation"? My friend received the e-mail and she's been an "actual" litigator for 10 years. It doesn't make sense.

[JSteele]

May 1, 2013 22:13:17 GMT -5 lawgurrl said:

I received the EXACT e-mail you received and I know that I described my experience, putting in dates, which I was very careful to do. The e-mail makes it sound like a bunch of junior high school kids pored over the applications and just got too tired to tossed a bunch in the garbage. I'm appealing. I'm really mad, really, really mad. I've worked at ODAR as an AA/SAA for over 7 years and before that, I was in private practice for a year. They're full of it. I put in months, years, everything!

Holy Crap!! I'm mad for you!!! It does seem, to quote my favorite cause for appeal "arbitrary and capricious!"

[bartleby]

Jsteeleky, I am sorry for your results. I am posting this as you are the first. Trust me, you will not be the last. Many of those of us in the Corps have been through the exact same thing and there appears to be no rhyme or reason. I had hoped the bugs were worked out of the system, but alas it seems not to be. I don't know what to say. I and several personal friends have received exactly the same NOR you have only to persevere and succeed later with the exact same experience we had originally. Try to get a good nights sleep and keep on keeping on. Don't let the system grind you down. You are worthy..

[lawgurrl]

The general nature of the NOR makes me question whether they read all of the applications; that's why I put in the line about the junior high school kids. I have nothing against them, at all It just seems to me they tossed every 2 for every 5 they accepted, or something similarly "arbitrary and capricious." How long does it take to receive the appeals e-mail?

[lawgurrl]

Thanks for the support, JsteeleKY! We're all in this together!!!

[kanderstag57]

Just received the exact same message as well!!! Boiling mad. I was very meticulous in describing my 20+ years of experience according to their prescribed format.
My goodness! I'm already an ALJ for a state agency. This is absolutely absurd and audacious!

I'm jumping on the appeal wagon as soon as it arrives.

[keepsake]

If you read the announcement - the appeal is based "on the record" - so I do not think you will be able to do much in terms of adding to the record on appeal. I imagine one is stuck with what you said and your burden is going to have to be to explain how what you said clearly demonstrates the seven years experience. This will likely not be a de novo review. I got the NOR email despite using buzz words describing my experience well in excess of 7 years. Mix of litigation and administrative law experience - with dates and percentages applied for each type for each period listed. Unbelievable, but that's OPM for you.

[christina]

By all means, appeal it.

[McLovin']

May 1, 2013 22:41:52 GMT -5 keepsake said:

If you read the announcement - the appeal is based "on the record" - so I do not think you will be able to do much in terms of adding to the record on appeal. I imagine one is stuck with what you said and your burden is going to have to be to explain how what you said clearly demonstrates the seven years experience. This will likely not be a de novo review. I got the NOR email despite using buzz words describing my experience well in excess of 7 years. Mix of litigation and administrative law experience - with dates and percentages applied for each type for each period listed. Unbelievable, but that's OPM for you.

Thanks. I guess I will repeat the time spent and percentages but I hope I can clarify anything I may notice after reviewing my application for the 1500th time!!! Tonight I did not re-read the announcement. I read through everything on the day they opened the exam but then I wanted to focus on one step at a time. This does seem a lot like SSA's recon. to me. In that situation, the appeal goes to a co-worker who might be the person who sits next to the person who initially decided the claim. They generally side with each other. I'm in a non-recon. state and I like it that way. Even with OPM I would rather to straigt to a hearing on this issue (I'm not even sure whether I am joking as I can't picture that ever being part of their process).

[zebra51]

Just a reminder. If so inclined update the poll "2013 ALJ announcement; 1st round results"

[care]

I received the same rejection you all did. My quick review of the directions indicated they wanted dates but nothing that I saw indicated they were specific about requiring exact months, as the email indicates. I submitted years and specified the number of months within those years that I engaged in trial and administrative law work. I also provided a table breaking out overlapping experience to comply with the requirement to account for overlapping experience. I clearly have roughly double the experience required.

Guess what else. I provided much of this information in two previous rounds of applications and easily made it over this experience requirement. Frustrating. Once I had a score exceeding 90. More recently I have scored below 60. Doesn't give one confidence in the fairness or consistency of the process, especially since I write a lot and have published frequently so I'm pretty certain that part of the exam went well.

However, don't give up. If the system is this random, your number is likely to show. I saw Jim and Sara Brady interviewed on the difficulty they have had promoting gun control legislation. They observe in that legislative arena, you almost always lose at the start, but win in the end. They give one inspiration. Perhaps it will be like that for us here. Good luck on appeal, which I too will be filing.

[basel16]

Dude, I think you gotta lighten up. I think you have more than enough experience, but perhaps you parsed it out a bit too much. Appeal, and paint your canvas in broad strokes.

[deminimis]

I received the same message this evening. I have some 30 years' litigation experience. I was in charge of all civil litigation in my District Attorney's Office for 13 years while maintaining a full litigation caseload. Before and after that 13-yr period, I was a full-time litigator, handling both civil and criminal cases. I also provided the optional "six significant cases" which consisted of reported decisions from my local state supreme court and the Ninth Circuit and U.S. District Court for a period from 1989 to 2007. You can look them up. OPM says I failed to demonstrate 7 years of litigation experience. It is impossible to fully comprehend the level of willful ignorance of this NOR.

[71stretch]

Very, very, strange for all of you, from what you've described. Particularly for care and deminimis, who are already on the register. If one had the experience in 2009, that person has it now, and theoretically more, if the same sort of work has been going on in the interim. Go for it, everyone.

[bootstrap]

I was rejected for the reason that I predicted on this board. The message that I received was as follows:

"You did not provide sufficient licensure information to pass the preliminary qualification screening at the time of your application submission. Complete licensure information includes listing jurisdictions in which you are currently licensed to practice law, the date(s) of admission to the bar in each jurisdiction, and the bar license number in each jurisdiction (for those jurisdictions that confer such numbers)."

I will appeal and hope that I have the same success as others who have posted on this board, received similar NORs and appealed with a positive result. At the same time though, I feel very foolish and peeved with myself for overlooking the licensure requirements as detailed in the vacancy announcement. Rookie mistake on my part. I will post the results of my appeal and wish success to all others who appeal.

[liora101]

I have told every Social Security claimant I have represented at a hearing that the fact that their claim was rejected at the initial and reconsideration level was more a statement of who was reviewing the claim than whether or not their claim had merit. Almost all of these claimants went on to win after appeal. I suspect that many who appeal in this situation will get a similar outcome. However I'm wondering if anyone is thinking of appealing the entire process as flawed as opposed to their individual application as being non-responsive.

[george]

I received the same response re technical denial. I included the Jx where I am licensed, my bar number, and attached a letter of good standing that lists my actual date of admission. Due to the fact I did not type out the date, I was denied.