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Post by funkyodar on Jul 27, 2013 19:43:51 GMT -5
That is a long time to be utterly miserable. But souls have been bought for a lot less than a guaranteed six figure salary, a month of paid leaves and holidays, job security, great med insurance and guaranteed retirement that is as rare as a dodo in the private sector.
One might be surprised with what someone can endure when they and their family become addicted to those benefits.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jul 27, 2013 19:51:45 GMT -5
Nobody forced you, extang, to stay at a job you seemed to have dispiesed for twenty years. You should have left and did something you felt would have been more meaningful for you and gave you more self-satisfaction. If you were doing the job solely for the money, then I truly feel sorry for you. One's own self-satisfaction and happiness is worth much more than all the money you could earn at a job that you truly hate to go to each day. I hope you can find the true happiness you seek in retirement. You are a smart guy MPD and I value the friendship we have forged in this lil virtual world. But you are a lil pollyanna here. it would be a wonderful world if we could all do jobs that make us happy and satisfied life and family and other obligations often interfere and make us do what we have to do instead of what we dream of doing. Afterall, everyone here is applying to be an alj or already one. As much as we may glorify the gig with the title of judge its really just a administrative procedure position. No one I know ever grew up saying they wanted to be a bureaucrat. I disagree that I am being Pollyanna in my comments. Your own work history funky bears out exactly what I stated. You realized that a high paying litigation position was one you didn't like going to because you wanted something different (more time with family). Then, you went through several positions trying to find one that made you the happiest. There is nothing worse than being in a job you hate to go to everyday. No matter what your situation with your family, you make the necessary adjustments to live less expensively or whatever to find a position you enjoy, even if it means a much less extravagant lifestyle because of a smaller salary in your new position.
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Post by christina on Jul 27, 2013 20:04:43 GMT -5
i really think extang's comments were in part to give candid thoughts to those looking for this job and a reality check. Those were decisions he or she made to stay there and it's not my business why they chose to stay. I do want to emphasize a lot depends on local and/or regional management too although I personally think local plays even a bigger role. and funky, another option is Baltimore or Falls church if u live close to there or are willing to move there. however, there can be QL issues living in those areas with families, commuting time, and cost of living that need to be considered. there also seems to be some interesting things going on in regional offices, whether it be for SSA or ODAR.
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Post by Orly on Jul 27, 2013 20:11:19 GMT -5
As I approach retirement, it is more than a little bit depressing that the last 20 years of my professional [with apologies for using the word 'professional' in something having to do with OHA] life have been spent involved in the soul-deadening stupidity of ODAR/OHA. Fairly sure this guy is not making six figures with full benefits. Maybe you should retire January of 2014 once the enhanced sick leave calculation kicks in? I'm sure someone here will gladly take the chance to fill your slot with less whining.
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Post by sportsfan on Jul 27, 2013 20:18:03 GMT -5
My sentiments too! Dang! Nothing is perfect but sounds downright depressing from extang's perspective.
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Post by crab on Jul 27, 2013 20:19:18 GMT -5
i really think extang's comments were in part to give candid thoughts to those looking for this job and a reality check. Those were decisions he or she made to stay there and it's not my business why they chose to stay. I do want to emphasize a lot depends on local and/or regional management too although I personally think local plays even a bigger role. and funky, another option is Baltimore or Falls church if u live close to there or are willing to move there. however, there can be QL issues living in those areas with families, commuting time, and cost of living that need to be considered. there also seems to be some interesting things going on in regional offices, whether it be for SSA or ODAR. What is different about those locations, Christina? Are they better or worse? Those are hearing center locations, right?
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Post by bartleby on Jul 27, 2013 20:26:09 GMT -5
There are very few places for an ex-ALJ to go. Some burn bridges when they leave other places to become an ALJ. Some end up in states where they aren't licensed. You become classified as a dissability lawyer and if you are so fed up you leave ODAR, you probably won't want to become a Rep and if you do, it may be a year or so before you see any income. It's almost impossible to go unilateral in this job or from this job.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 27, 2013 20:29:45 GMT -5
You are a smart guy MPD and I value the friendship we have forged in this lil virtual world. But you are a lil pollyanna here. it would be a wonderful world if we could all do jobs that make us happy and satisfied life and family and other obligations often interfere and make us do what we have to do instead of what we dream of doing. Afterall, everyone here is applying to be an alj or already one. As much as we may glorify the gig with the title of judge its really just a administrative procedure position. No one I know ever grew up saying they wanted to be a bureaucrat. I disagree that I am being Pollyanna in my comments. Your own work history funky bears out exactly what I stated. You realized that a high paying litigation position was one you didn't like going to because you wanted something different (more time with family). Then, you went through several positions trying to find one that made you the happiest. There is nothing worse than being in a job you hate to go to everyday. No matter what your situation with your family, you make the necessary adjustments to live less expensively or whatever to find a position you enjoy, even if it means a much less extravagant lifestyle because of a smaller salary in your new position. All true and well thought. But I ended at odar for one main reason. I had a child with a major medical issue that prevented me from obtaining medical insurance as a self employed person. We had ins thru mrs funky but one of us needed to stay home with the special funkling. Odar gave me the insurance, a wage we could live on (more frugally than we did) and family time. In those regardsit is great. But, were it not for the hand life dealt I wouldn't be spending my working hours at odar. Now, the lil guy is stable and mrs funky has returned to work. I've thought long and hard about going back into the private sector now that she once again can provide insurance. But I 'm too invested in the retirement, too addicted to the hours and leave and too rusty in regards to lit skills to go back. This gig is stable, pays ok and offers great benefits. Right now that outweighs my ego and dreams of courtroom glory. Am I doing what I want, what would make me personally happiest? No. But it is what is best for my family and I will sacrafice my own satisfaction for theirs anytime. Now, if I don't make alj and I become stagnant in my career without a way to move up....? Well then the family and I may have to rethink and reprioritize.
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Post by christina on Jul 27, 2013 20:35:10 GMT -5
Crab, There are more opportunities to do things in Baltimore in particular. Not necc legal per se but there can be all sorts of options there. it's not that easy to get something in Baltimore though and by Baltimore, I mean headquarters, not the hearing office. But i've heard of people who became Associate Commissioners, judges, and all sorts of things who spent some time in Baltimore headquarters. a couple went in on temp assignments and never left. and it seems there are some attorney spots in the regional offices where there can be a variety of things to do. It to me looks like those duties and jobs vary by region. I don't know how hard or easy it is to get those jobs but they are out there. Falls Church is ODAR's headquarters and there are some temp assignments there from time to time. I am assuming connections can be made in Falls Church that are not likely to be found in a local ODAR. and my point was more that can be career paths at ODAR or SSA other than being an ALJ for attorneys. probably a lot less than at other agencies but if u are willing to work at headquarters, there seems to be a lot going on.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 27, 2013 20:40:39 GMT -5
Seen too many episodes of the wire to voluntarily live in Baltimore. Might could do FC, but fear I would end up in one of those quarterly IVT broadcasts. Apparently appearingin one of those videos causes a terminal cancer of the personality. Dont really care to be defunked.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 20:52:30 GMT -5
If you have a legal job that you find stimulating and professionally satisfying, please do not leave it to become an SSA ALJ, which is barely a legal job at all. To call OHA a factory would be an insult to most factories these days, because factories have quality control. OHA has no interest in or for that matter any understanding of quality. Wow, I really really appreciate these comments extang. They actually hit me over the head like a 2X4. I fit this bill and wonder if the SSA ALJ gig is for me. I learn something new every day at my current job. I do not and will not make as much as an ALJ will but I get to interact with clients daily, get questions that I have no clue about and spend hours researching. I get to litigate bid protests at the GAO and provide litigation support for ASBCA and Court of Claims litigation. I have cases with MSPB and with EEOC going on at the same time. I get called upon to give presentations, attend meetings and give opinions on a variety of areas. I also have the ability to run my own legal office and I have the ability to compete for assignments in Europe and Asia. I am starting to think that the extra money I would make as an SSA ALJ may not really be worth the satisfaction and diversity I am giving up.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 27, 2013 21:14:57 GMT -5
Your job sounds muy satisfying exjag. If I could trade mine for yours and give you the bonus of having 2 shots at alj (mine and yours) I'd do it without a second thought.
Not saying you should not keep trying for alj, but you will definitely be giving up a lot for a lil bigger salary. Depending on your life circumstances that may be a good trade. Or maybe not.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 21:31:08 GMT -5
Thanks Funky. I really do enjoy the gig I have right now but as always the grass on the other side seems greener--well at least as money is concerned. I read your postings too and share all the benefits you have as far as time off, insurance etc., since I work for the federal govt too. I just got promoted GS 15 but it will be a long time before I can make it to Step 10. Perhaps a bit short sighted in my future plans. I know that I will be expected to dispose of about 50 cases a month give or take to be in good standing and that is repetitive work (although very important) that will not replace the stimulation and satisfaction I now have. Another benefit that I have is 2-3 guaranteed travel trips a year for training/conferences--I do not recall having any training opportunities at SSA with the exception of the initial writer training that I got a year after I was hired and by that time I was already able to pump out about 40 decisions a month. I will travel to DC in two weeks and complete the testing. Staying at a dirt cheap hotel and flying out right after the SI. I have a limited GAL so I do not know if I will be competitive to begin with if I make the register but I have a lot to think about if that time ever comes. I do appreciate all of your insight--its a pleasure to read your detailed posts which remind me of what the ALJ position at ODAR is really about.
Its very easy to get caught up on the glamor of a "judgeship" and in the competitive process we are undergoing can be an adrenaline rush at times but the reality of the job is something completely different and not taking it into account can lead someone to the same experience that extang had. Lets face it once you get the job you are not going to leave it (most people at least) and you are just going to have to grit your teeth and bid your time like extang did--I know that is what I would probably do.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 27, 2013 21:38:06 GMT -5
Where I am, GS 15 starts off real close to ALJ salary, although ALJ salary does increase over time.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 27, 2013 21:50:27 GMT -5
Right there with you. If I get the gig I will be a lifer whether its a dream or a nightmare. Unsatisfying job situations just force you to find happiness and fulfillmentin other areas.
Of course I have the benefit of not giving up a very satisfying job in the first place.
As for travel in the alj gig its pretty limited from what I have seen. There is of course the initial training and a brief refresher after a year. Then every few years those in your class get called to FC for more refresh training. HOCALJs have a yearly conference and thereis the yearly union conference if u choose to go. Maybe an occasional detail but Ihaven't seen an alj from my office get or take one.
I'm interested as to the pay. You said you were gs15. I have noidea what actual amount that is, but its gotta be pretty high compared to odar. HODs are gs14s. My friend that topped the saa gs13 level before making alj tells me he only got like a 5k raise. Of course my area has very lil locality pay added.
Just seems like a gs15 can't be too far off from a starting alj.
I wish you luck my friend and wish we could have a couple cold ones in dc. I have enjoyed your posts and perspectives.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 21:52:33 GMT -5
I am a couple of grand below what the ALJ starts at as a GS15 step 1 but ALJs get to top pay in less than half the time it takes for a GS 15 to get to step 10.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 27, 2013 22:14:15 GMT -5
If you go to a location that doesn't pay locality pay, and there are a bunch, you start off at $118,000.00 as an ALJ. There is no possibilty of overtime pay.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 27, 2013 22:15:00 GMT -5
I am a couple of grand below what the ALJ starts at as a GS15 step 1 but ALJs get to top pay in less than half the time it takes for a GS 15 to get to step 10. Ah. that splains it. Makes a big diff when you can get to that high 3 in half the time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 22:19:05 GMT -5
Indeed funky, I am hoping to work another 13 years and split at 60 with 28 years. I will not see step 10 let alone have it affect my high three for pension calculation. If I were to become an ALJ I would get to top pay and also have the top pay for three years. Pension and salary wise the ALJ gig is a no brainer.
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Post by hopefalj on Jul 27, 2013 22:32:20 GMT -5
If you go to a location that doesn't pay locality pay, and there are a bunch, you start off at $118,000.00 as an ALJ. There is no possibilty of overtime pay. And after three years, you're essentially at the equivalent of a GS 15/10 in the same location.
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