How old is too old

[Deleted]

I have a lot of experience, including having been a judge for a federal agency for close to tweny years until I retired two years ago. I want to unretire and therefore applied for an ALJ position and have been invited to phase three August 15 and 16. I am looking forward to participating but am wondering whether, at 65 years old, my age will practically knock me out from being finally selected by an agency even if I make it to the Register. Would appreciate input.

[minny]

If it does, I know a good employment lawyer!  In all seriousness, age is one of those bases that is not supposed to enter into the equation when hiring, but I suspect it does more often than we would like to think.  However, for the ALJ position, maturity would seem to me to be a very desired quality.  Best of luck to you in becoming unretired.

[bartleby]

In my class several were over 65. Don't forget the 92 year old HOCALJ that just recently died.. Biggest problem with oldsters is the perceived idea that they are technologically challenged/impaired..

[Deleted]

Thank you Minny. I was just debating whether, as a practical matter, it was worth it to go forward. Reading your and Bartleby's responses, I am encouraged to proceed.

[valkyrie]

A friend of mine was at a training class for new ALJs only a few years ago, which included a new ALJ well into his 80's. Frighteningly he had three falls during training. You would be 65 years young compared to that guy.

Don't forget that the primary challenges of the SSA ALJ job, the majority of the jobs to which you be applying, are volume, and the tech fluency required to manage the volume. I have said many times before that the actual legal aspect of the SSA ALJ position is not particularly interesting or demanding, but the medical aspect is fascinating, and you do get a significant amount of interaction with the general public. Good luck!

[funkyodar]

My office also had a new alj come in about 3 years ago that was in his seventies and had come out of retirement. He only stayed a couple years, but did an excellent job. His leaving the job was due to health reasons that came about after he had taken the gig, otherwise I have no doubt he would still be trucking along.

As Minny noted, if you feel ageism (even hints at it)during the process you will be sitting pretty for a complaint. Technical proficiency is certainly something they can inquire about, I would think they would even be ok with some light questioning about the hole in your work record that stemmed from your retirement since they can question around the edges on such periods for even younger applicants. But, they certainly, cant do any in depth questioning that would imply they fear your age would be problematic.

For some, 65 is ancient. For others, 65 is the new 35. Only you know what you can actually do and they arent allowed to assume the worst based merely on your age. As for the actual gig and your performance of it, technical proficiency and the ability to work in a "fast paced prduction quota environment" is paramount. To be honest, I have seen just as many younegr folks have problems with that aspect of working for ODAR as the older contingent.

In fact, our least productive judge is in his 40s and a complete computer luddite. He routinely has the HOSA in his office showing him how to open emails, cut and paste and maneuver around CPMS. All of his instructions are hand written and, as a writer, if you have to converse with him on some issue that isnt clear you have to schedule face time as he wont respond to emails or instant messager.

Good luck seenalot.

[Deleted]

Thank you all for encouraging posts. I guess I feel like I'm a young 65. As to technical proficiency I consider myself up to date and am also comfortable handling a large active caseload as I did in my previous job where I presided over between 15 and 20 adversarial hearings per week. I was just worried about age bias although I do know at least one ALJ who is over 90 and still going strong. Should have listened when he advised me not to retire.


My phase 3 dates are August 15 and 16.

[Deleted]

Boredom mostly. My advise is that if you have second thoughts about retirement, don't do it; wait until you are really sure. Some people are fine with it. I find myself climbing walls even though I do some part time work and have other interests.

[Deleted]

Yes, maybe something else; but always something.

[71stretch]

Were I to be so lucky to get an ALJ position, I could and would retire with a full pension from my present one, which would allow me to start collecting a pension long before I would otherwise, and add to the monthly income. I'm not ready to stop working, but am ready for a new challenge.

[Deleted]

If you receive a federal pension and return to federal employment, you will continue to receive your pension but your salary will be reduced by equivalent amount. Unfortunately, in that case, federal retirement and reemployment, there is no windfall.

[decadealj]

I retired at 65 because it was time and I owed it to the public to make room for someone else more technically proficient to survive in the current business process. But I was also beat up from degeneration of old combat wounds and wanted to travel while I still could. Certainly over time, SSA has hired younger and younger ALJs, I think because of perceived computer skills. My class 2 decades ago averaged over 65 but it also contained more than 60% state and federal trial and administrative judges because litigation experience was key and we were near the top of the register because of judicial experience. I wouldn't be a bit discouraged because of age but I don't think you will happy in ODAR because of the lack of clerical support and micromanagement but what do I know.

[mcb]

Jul 23, 2013 6:08:19 GMT -5 @seenalot said:

I have a lot of experience, including having been a judge for a federal agency for close to tweny years until I retired two years ago. I want to unretire and therefore applied for an ALJ position and have been invited to phase three August 15 and 16. I am looking forward to participating but am wondering whether, at 65 years old, my age will practically knock me out from being finally selected by an agency even if I make it to the Register. Would appreciate input.

We had quite a few (5 or 6 at least) ALJs in their 60s in my Fall 2010 class(70+ people). I belive the oldest was 68.

[grassgreener]

Jul 23, 2013 13:58:32 GMT -5 @seenalot said:

If you receive a federal pension and return to federal employment, you will continue to receive your pension but your salary will be reduced by equivalent amount. Unfortunately, in that case, federal retirement and reemployment, there is no windfall.

Once you "re-retire", would your pension be adjusted to take into account, presumably, your higher salary?

[71stretch]

Jul 23, 2013 13:58:32 GMT -5 @seenalot said:

If you receive a federal pension and return to federal employment, you will continue to receive your pension but your salary will be reduced by equivalent amount. Unfortunately, in that case, federal retirement and reemployment, there is no windfall.

I know that to be true... mine would be a state pension.

[bartleby]

You have to remember that is you start drawing a pension or Social Security while working, your taxes will be sky high and you don't want that.

[onepingonly]

65 is not too old. There were several in my training class who look like they've seen a lot. There's no such thing as too much wisdom on the bench. Good luck!

[privateatty]

Jul 23, 2013 6:08:19 GMT -5 @seenalot said:

I have a lot of experience, including having been a judge for a federal agency for close to tweny years until I retired two years ago. I want to unretire and therefore applied for an ALJ position and have been invited to phase three August 15 and 16. I am looking forward to participating but am wondering whether, at 65 years old, my age will practically knock me out from being finally selected by an agency even if I make it to the Register. Would appreciate input.

It sounds to me that if you get hired, the hiring Agency will be lucky to have you.

Prior to getting this job we moved into a new area and the neighborhood included two fifty something guys (younger than me) who had cashed in early. Their "schedules" had me trying to envision such a life. It made me sweat. My Dad is alive and retired at 65. He misses work--and has for 25 years. Retirement has been very hard on him--he had to because of an "ailment".

Everyone is different. Folks have posted here that Judges have declared that they will be carried out of their offices feet first--with a sense of OMG. As long as I am doing my job as well as I can and have a healthy disposition rate, I say what nobler way to go? What the heck am I going to do at home all day? I'm starting to sweat...

[usnrcwo]

Jul 23, 2013 6:08:19 GMT -5 @seenalot said:

I have a lot of experience, including having been a judge for a federal agency for close to tweny years until I retired two years ago. I want to unretire and therefore applied for an ALJ position and have been invited to phase three August 15 and 16. I am looking forward to participating but am wondering whether, at 65 years old, my age will practically knock me out from being finally selected by an agency even if I make it to the Register. Would appreciate input.

Is that supposed to be Tevia or Pseudolus?

[71stretch]

Jul 23, 2013 15:35:10 GMT -5 bartleby said:

You have to remember that is you start drawing a pension or Social Security while working, your taxes will be sky high and you don't want that.

Wouldn't be drawing SS- As far as the pension is concerned, I'll look at the finances if and when the issue arises.