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Post by funkyodar on Aug 28, 2013 8:01:07 GMT -5
^^^^^ This is also one of the reasons I have decided to decline the invitation to apply for Group Sup. There are quite a few good writers in my office that are all rooting for me to get the ALJ gig so it opens a SAA slot. While none of them are interested in management, their attitude may change if it is true that there will be rare to no SAA hiring in the near future. Would hate to cut off a GS13 route for one of them when that may be the only route opne and i am already there.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Aug 28, 2013 8:30:04 GMT -5
If i was you and wanted the SAA position i would def apply for any that are now posted. Though,i do know of one such position in one office that went so far as having the BQL sent back from Region and then didnt fill the position. Wouldnt surprise me if the position you reference was approved before the last three of four months when the agency's philosophy on SAAs changed. The rumor I actually heard (again, rumors so maybe completely wrong)is that the SAA program was essentially on life support. Apparently, when congress began throwing allegations of "paying down" the backlog, SSA had to scapegoat someone and the SAA program caught the heat. They did away with the VSU and replaced it with some ridiculous review group of 7 SAAs that are supposed to review all the cases in the country and SAAs will only be able to pay a case OTR if it is recc by that group. I was actually told that they considered not reauthorizing the SAA program at all, but a quick history lesson made them at least keep it. Apparently a decade or more ago, they essentially killed the SAA program. Most SAAs (except those that had progressed past the GS12 step scale) were returned to GS12 and regular writing. Those that had risen beyond the limits of GS12 were allowed to stay at GS 13 but also returned to regular writing. Two results quickly happene. First, the backlog quickly exploded. Second, those that were dropped back to 12 filed grievances and complaints pointing out that there was no justification for paying the others at 13 since they no longer had any additional duties over their GS12 bretheren. Ultimately, after a year or more, all of them were returned to GS13. When congress began yelling about the backlog, they recertified the SAA program as adjudicators. So, with congress once again focusing on quality instead of the backlog, they again severely curtailed the SAA program. They weren't foolish enough to try and drop people back to GS12 this time, but they essentially neutered the adjuducative part of the program and now the justification for the SAA greater pay is that they will be responsible for the more difficult cases, training/mentoring and still have very limited adjudicative authority. From what I have been told, they would have loved to kill the program for a bit, but didnt want the headaches. They do not plan to loosen the reigns on the program, hire any new SAAs or even replace the ones that leave for a while. Probably wont until the backlog again grows so large that congress starts complaining. There may be an exception to the policy in very limited situations, but i would be surprised to se any SAA position filled in the near future. best chance may be a position that was authorized before the philosophy change and funded before next fiscal year. Or, maybe everything I have heard through the grapevine is paranoid BS and all I just said is wrong. Maybe... Funky you are not paranoid. Ok maybe a little. LOL! But I received an email this morning that confirms some of what you said. "Apparently there will be an upcoming conference call of all senior attorneys that will inform us that our authority has been continued but reduced to OTR favorables that basically meet a listing OR grid. (no less than sedentary at all)." So, I can see the backlog increasing, outcry to Congress from claimant's increasing, and a good case for hiring more staff / ALJs down the road. Master plan? I don't know if I buy into the grand conspiracy but I do know it is just a matter of cycling through these ups and downs like a sine wave.
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Post by moopigsdad on Aug 28, 2013 8:50:30 GMT -5
I am sure SSA management knows exactly what it is doing. If a big enough backlog is created, then people complain and once people complain, Congress will need to supply more funding for SSA hires. On another note, there is a strong likelihood that Congress and the President will fight over the nation's debt limit and whether to raise it or not, based upon a NY Times story today. If this happens a government shutdown is going to happen and it is likely to affect all those government employees working for SSA/ODAR now. I would think this government shutdown may last longer than a day or two this time. So, save your dollars and be prepared to a possible life without a job or a paycheck for a pay period or more.
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Post by hopefalj on Aug 28, 2013 9:01:22 GMT -5
At this point, Congress and the President have become the boy who cried government shut down to me. We've heard this rhetoric several times over the past few years, and I've stopped worrying about it. Hopefully this tale doesn't turn out like the boy who cried wolf, though.
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Post by alj on Aug 28, 2013 21:32:19 GMT -5
The supervisory job, GS or HOD, especially HOD, will help you get selected, assuming you do a good job. Not a great job, but a good job. Too many variables in the position to expect a great job from all GS and HODS. Getting along with people is the key.
You have already done the Sr. Attny job, now is the time to get another punch on the ticket and move up with the real insiders.
Specific questions? Send me a PM. I sign in every week or so.
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Post by crazybroad on Aug 29, 2013 6:31:35 GMT -5
I'm with alj on this. Go for management, it will help with workload management questions at the SSA interview too.
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Post by eyre44 on Aug 29, 2013 11:28:20 GMT -5
^^^^^ While none of them are interested in management, their attitude may change if it is true that there will be rare to no SAA hiring in the near future. Would hate to cut off a GS13 route for one of them when that may be the only route opne and i am already there. Prior to the SAA hiring binge in 2008, being a GS was the only route to SAA in my region. It was impossible to get a SAA without being a GS or an attorney in the regional office first. You could be the greatest AA in the history of ODAR and the regional management would not hire you as a SAA unless you came from management. It may return to this in the future given the current atmosphere.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Aug 29, 2013 11:34:01 GMT -5
^^^^^ While none of them are interested in management, their attitude may change if it is true that there will be rare to no SAA hiring in the near future. Would hate to cut off a GS13 route for one of them when that may be the only route opne and i am already there. Prior to the SAA hiring binge in 2008, being a GS was the only route to SAA in my region. It was impossible to get a SAA without being a GS or an attorney in the regional office first. You could be the greatest AA in the history of ODAR and the regional management would not hire you as a SAA unless you came from management. It may return to this in the future given the current atmosphere. Wow! Glad that was not the case in my region! We could apply when there was an opening and it was certainly competative. But being a GS was not by any means the route to SAA. I didn't realize how different the regions evaluated these positions. Very interesting!
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Post by funkyodar on Aug 29, 2013 12:42:47 GMT -5
Prior to the SAA hiring binge in 2008, being a GS was the only route to SAA in my region. It was impossible to get a SAA without being a GS or an attorney in the regional office first. You could be the greatest AA in the history of ODAR and the regional management would not hire you as a SAA unless you came from management. It may return to this in the future given the current atmosphere. Wow! Glad that was not the case in my region! We could apply when there was an opening and it was certainly competative. But being a GS was not by any means the route to SAA. I didn't realize how different the regions evaluated these positions. Very interesting! Same with my office. Any writer that had the time in grade could apply. In fact, i was the first AA propmoted to SAA anyone here could remember that was promoted out of turn (ie over some AAs who had been here much longer). The basis that made the rumor rounds was that I had so much more extensive private practice background, had served a detail as a group sup and was the most productive in the running. Still left some bad blood. The same few that were upset then are equally upset that I made pahse 3 and they didntr get past phase 1. One of teh reasons i try and stay anonymous on the boards (I know they lurk and wouldnt put it past at least one to look for something I post to stab me with later). So, while group sup experience was not necessary for the SAA in my office, I do think the detail helped me get it.
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Post by funkyodar on Aug 29, 2013 12:45:39 GMT -5
Wow! Glad that was not the case in my region! We could apply when there was an opening and it was certainly competative. But being a GS was not by any means the route to SAA. I didn't realize how different the regions evaluated these positions. Very interesting! Same with my office. Any writer that had the time in grade could apply. In fact, i was the first AA propmoted to SAA anyone here could remember that was promoted out of turn (ie over some AAs who had been here much longer). The basis that made the rumor rounds was that I had so much more extensive private practice background, had served a detail as a group sup and was the most productive in the running. Still left some bad blood. The same few that were upset then are equally upset that I made pahse 3 and they didntr get past phase 1. One of the reasons i try and stay anonymous on the boards (I know they lurk and wouldnt put it past at least one to look for something I post to stab me with later). So, while group sup experience was not necessary for the SAA in my office, I do think the detail helped me get it. May have just outed myself right there.....dammit
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2013 13:06:49 GMT -5
Funkster, I do not think you have anything to worry about. It does not sound like you said anything that was not factual/accurate and you therefore did not libel anyone--not that you identified anyone by name either.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Aug 29, 2013 13:17:07 GMT -5
Funkster, I do not think you have anything to worry about. It does not sound like you said anything that was not factual/accurate and you therefore did not libel anyone--not that you identified anyone by name either. Agree!
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Post by moopigsdad on Aug 29, 2013 13:41:58 GMT -5
Same with my office. Any writer that had the time in grade could apply. In fact, i was the first AA propmoted to SAA anyone here could remember that was promoted out of turn (ie over some AAs who had been here much longer). The basis that made the rumor rounds was that I had so much more extensive private practice background, had served a detail as a group sup and was the most productive in the running. Still left some bad blood. The same few that were upset then are equally upset that I made pahse 3 and they didntr get past phase 1. One of the reasons i try and stay anonymous on the boards (I know they lurk and wouldnt put it past at least one to look for something I post to stab me with later). So, while group sup experience was not necessary for the SAA in my office, I do think the detail helped me get it. May have just outed myself right there.....dammit Funky remember you can always delete a post if you wish by left clicking on the arrow next to the little gear and then hit delete post.
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Post by sealaw90 on Aug 29, 2013 15:40:00 GMT -5
Funkster, I do not think you have anything to worry about. It does not sound like you said anything that was not factual/accurate and you therefore did not libel anyone--not that you identified anyone by name either. I agree as well. I have no idea which ODAR you work at, or what state you reside in. No possible libel action.
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Post by funkyodar on Aug 29, 2013 16:47:05 GMT -5
Thanks guys. just cause you are paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you. lol
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Post by atlasta on Aug 31, 2013 23:57:28 GMT -5
It will not help at all with OPM. However, once you clear that hurdle, ODAR is certainly not opposed to having ALJs who are "attuned to management objectives".
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Post by bartleby on Sept 1, 2013 10:53:18 GMT -5
I have known of two that did not get selected that were group sups and thought management torpedoed them to keep them where they were as they were the best in the office. One filed an EEOC complaint and was surprised that the office HOD and HOCALC did give bad references. That group sup transferred to a different office and got picked up over a year later.. just something to think about.
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Post by hopefalj on Sept 1, 2013 11:57:18 GMT -5
I have known of two that did not get selected that were group sups and thought management torpedoed them to keep them where they were as they were the best in the office. One filed an EEOC complaint and was surprised that the office HOD and HOCALC did give bad references. That group sup transferred to a different office and got picked up over a year later.. just something to think about. It could happen if you're a writer, too. Pretty sure someone shared a story about something along those lines a while ago. The vast majority of HODs and HOCALJs are professional and encourage career advancement, though, so it shouldn't be an issue.
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