Benny
Full Member
Posts: 56
|
Post by Benny on Sept 14, 2013 6:56:09 GMT -5
Would someone mind explaining to me how the GAL, cert and interview thing works? I know a cert gets prepared based on the register. However, when an agency interviews, do they match the agency's location with the candidate's GAL? If they don't, how do they avoid interviewing candidates who would not go to that location?
Thanks in advance !!!!
|
|
|
Post by 71stretch on Sept 14, 2013 7:43:17 GMT -5
Would someone mind explaining to me how the GAL, cert and interview thing works? I know a cert gets prepared based on the register. However, when an agency interviews, do they match the agency's location with the candidate's GAL? If they don't, how do they avoid interviewing candidates who would not go to that location? Thanks in advance !!!! They are not interviewing you, or anyone, for a particular location. They just want to see if you are a good fit for the agency. By the time you interview, you've already had an opportunity to remove any city that's on the cert that you've decided not to take a position in. They make their selections at what we've come to call the "Puzzle Palace", and everyone who gets an offer is offered a position in a city that IS still on their GAL. One can decline an offer for whatever personal reasons may exist by the time the offer is made, but declining an offer can harm your chances at another offer down the road.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeRatty on Sept 14, 2013 7:51:26 GMT -5
Would someone mind explaining to me how the GAL, cert and interview thing works? I know a cert gets prepared based on the register. However, when an agency interviews, do they match the agency's location with the candidate's GAL? If they don't, how do they avoid interviewing candidates who would not go to that location? Thanks in advance !!!! Good morning Benny! There are several good discussions and threads on this on the board. You can do a search and find many. A good one is here: aljdiscussion.proboards.com/thread/824?page=1 and although you will still have questions, many of the "exact" processes are totally unknown to all except SSA when it comes to the details of the order of which cities are used first etc. You get on a "cert" based upon your GAL. They do not put on ON the cert in the first place unless you have a city on your GAL that matches a city where they plan to hire. You will get a list of your cities with an opportunity to further restrict your GAL (but not expand--many threads on this too). Once on a cert, they get your references on a specific form that you are sent and then send back. They do not interview for a specific city....the interview is to see if you are a good fit for SSA in general. Then they pair up the top 3 scorers for the particular city and choose....not necessarily based on straight score. There are many mysteries to the process hence the numerous discussions out of frustration to those who do not get chosen--people looking for "reasons" why things worked the way they did or did not. OPM has a method to their madness and we are not privy to all the details. Hope this wasn't too vague, but it is the nature of the beast!
|
|
|
Post by westernalj on Sept 14, 2013 8:05:06 GMT -5
I hadn't thought about the order in which they choose. But this must have an impact. A lot of the process is out of our control and there is some luck involved.
|
|
|
Post by philliesfan on Sept 14, 2013 8:12:42 GMT -5
When I applied (for the 3rd time) in 2007, I had a fairly wide GAL (I had left some small cities in the South off). In 2008, my name was on a cert and I got a list of locations where there were openings from SSA and because of family circumstances further limited the list of cities to ones to which I could commute or could get home from in 2-3 hours. Between receiving the list and going to Falls Church for the SSA interview, my circumstances changed. I called SSA and was permitted to expand the list of places that I would go to, to include additional places on the original list that I had received from SSA. However, I did not receive an offer. I did three years later based on the list after I expanded it. Just remember, this did not involve OPM, only SSA.
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Sept 14, 2013 10:49:56 GMT -5
When you apply for a position you chose where you would be willing to work, not after your testing and interview. If you had been a member of this Board you would have known this fact. If you are a late arrival, it is your own fault for not seeking out the Board and its wisdom earlier. Any good attorney searches for all sources of law or information prior to proceeding to trial. He doesn't go to trial and then research the law. I think the lecturing is bit heavy handed. I googled ALJ stuff for several weeks before finding this Board and I think equating an anonymous chat room to legal research is to the say the least a bit ridiculous... Surfdude doesn't need a lecture about his googlefu anymore than any one here needs a lecture about smoking. Now on a different point I do agree that the original announcement was clear (as much as I wish it wasn't) and there is little to know possibility that OPM will change its process in the current testing/sorting regimen.
|
|
|
Post by useorlose on Sept 14, 2013 11:06:02 GMT -5
First, could somebody define GAL? I looked but didn't see. Second, I feel certain that AFTER I went to DC in early August and had discussed locations with folks at testing, I went back and expanded my list. But now, I can't figure out how I did that, and doesn't seem like I can. Anyone else?
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on Sept 14, 2013 11:45:25 GMT -5
First, could somebody define GAL? I looked but didn't see. Second, I feel certain that AFTER I went to DC in early August and had discussed locations with folks at testing, I went back and expanded my list. But now, I can't figure out how I did that, and doesn't seem like I can. Anyone else? It's your geographic availability, although I'm not sure where that acronym came from. I sincerely doubt that you were able to expand your GAL after testing as I don't know of any way to access your locations following the submission of your application. However, I'm also not sure what you would have done that could be confused with adding locations, so who knows?
|
|
Benny
Full Member
Posts: 56
|
Post by Benny on Sept 14, 2013 12:20:12 GMT -5
Thanks to those who cleared things up for me!
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Sept 14, 2013 12:40:44 GMT -5
I think hope is right, I dunno of anyway you could have changed your gal after the app period closed.
I'm sure there are some that gave limited gals that now, once they understand that doing so significantly limits chances of getting a job, want to expand it. But you really need to think that through.
Obviously when you selected your gal you decided you didn't want to live in the places you didn't select. If you now have circumstances where you would like to live in these other places, wonderful. If you just want to expand to be a "judge" then I respectfully suggest you reexamine your priorities. There are plenty of threads where the topic of being an alj not carrying the same swag and ego boost as being a trial judge is discussed. In one of those I suggested thinking of it without the robe. Imagine you have applied for a disability claims analyst job with Aflac. The $ is the same, assume same benefits and the job is essentially the same duties. Now, would you be willing to move your family to BFE for that job?
Similarly, many gave wide open gals under the assumption that they can get hired and then transfer to where they want to go. Many threads have discussions on why transfers won't be as common as they once were and may take years to effectuate if at all. Are you now willing to move your family to some place you originally didn't want to live or live away from your family on the off chance you may get to transfer some where you want 2 to 5 years later?
That's why the gal selection at the start is the right thing to do. Before you are caught up in the emotion of the process, before you have even applied, you can look at the list without extraneous issues and honestly ask yourself "would I take this job if it meant having to live in flint michigan?" or any other "undesirable" locales.
A more perplexing issue regarding gals presented during a few conversations I had with other candidates at testing. One guy told me he was hoping to be an epa alj and would not consider ssa at all. Yet when I asked about his gal he told me he only gave his home city and a neighboring city. Neither is a locale that even has an epa alj office.
Another told me he only wanted to be a judge for the VA. I didn't have the heart to tell him the VA doesn't hire from the register or even use aljs per se.
Unless these guys change their minds about working for ssa, they just wasted quite a bit of $ and cardiac stress for nothing.
|
|
|
Post by surfdude on Sept 14, 2013 13:10:31 GMT -5
Good, thoughtful observations Funky. Thanks to all for responding to my inquiry about potential GAL changes, including the "lecturers". Good luck to everyone in this process!
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Sept 14, 2013 13:21:53 GMT -5
Good, thoughtful observations Funky. Thanks to all for responding to my inquiry about potential GAL changes, including the "lecturers". Good luck to everyone in this process! Good luck to you. Just remember that if it is meant to be it will be despite gals or lbmts or any of that word salad. Till then, the dude abides.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 13:59:58 GMT -5
All these GAL issues are part of the selection process and just as important as the testing components. Like any competition those that learn the rules, tricks and lawful shortcuts have greater success than those that do not. Surferdude and other late bloomers did not have the same knowledge of the system or experience in the process that other have on here and is now trying to play catchup. Its like going to trial, often times the side most prepared wins. I can attest to this having been beaten because my opponent had more preparation than i did and vice versa in cases where i won. Sorry for typos. Using iPhone
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on Sept 14, 2013 14:27:31 GMT -5
All these GAL issues are part of the selection process and just as important as the testing components. Like any competition thise that learne the rules, tricks and lawful shortcuts have greater sucess than those that do not. Surferdude and other late bloomers did not have the same knowledge of the system or experience in the process that other have on here and is now trying to play catchup. Its like going to trial, often times the side most prepared wins. I can attest to this having been beaten because my oponent had more preparation than i did and bice versa in cases where i won. Sorry for typos. Using iphone
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Sept 14, 2013 15:38:36 GMT -5
I think hope is right, I dunno of anyway you could have changed your gal after the app period closed. I'm sure there are some that gave limited gals that now, once they understand that doing so significantly limits chances of getting a job, want to expand it. But you really need to think that through. Obviously when you selected your gal you decided you didn't want to live in the places you didn't select. If you now have circumstances where you would like to live in these other places, wonderful. If you just want to expand to be a "judge" then I respectfully suggest you reexamine your priorities. There are plenty of threads where the topic of being an alj not carrying the same swag and ego boost as being a trial judge is discussed. In one of those I suggested thinking of it without the robe. Imagine you have applied for a disability claims analyst job with Aflac. The $ is the same, assume same benefits and the job is essentially the same duties. Now, would you be willing to move your family to BFE for that job? Similarly, many gave wide open gals under the assumption that they can get hired and then transfer to where they want to go. Many threads have discussions on why transfers won't be as common as they once were and may take years to effectuate if at all. Are you now willing to move your family to some place you originally didn't want to live or live away from your family on the off chance you may get to transfer some where you want 2 to 5 years later? That's why the gal selection at the start is the right thing to do. Before you are caught up in the emotion of the process, before you have even applied, you can look at the list without extraneous issues and honestly ask yourself "would I take this job if it meant having to live in flint michigan?" or any other "undesirable" locales. A more perplexing issue regarding gals presented during a few conversations I had with other candidates at testing. One guy told me he was hoping to be an epa alj and would not consider ssa at all. Yet when I asked about his gal he told me he only gave his home city and a neighboring city. Neither is a locale that even has an epa alj office. Another told me he only wanted to be a judge for the VA. I didn't have the heart to tell him the VA doesn't hire from the register or even use aljs per se. Unless these guys change their minds about working for ssa, they just wasted quite a bit of $ and cardiac stress for nothing. I don't really disagree with anything you say Funky except to say that by the time I found out about the posting I didn't have time to do a lot of research before I had to submit everything. I hope everyone realizes that many of us didn't have any access to inside information and therefore, had to luck into being on USAJobs or an article etc. to even know about the opening. The result is that I put only places I knew I was willing to go that night down. Had I had more time to do some research abut locations I would have added a couple dozen more. It still wouldn't include all of Crapland or all of the "desirable" locations but it would be broader. However, I do think that your wisdom regarding "throwing it wide open" just to get the job is spot on.
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Sept 14, 2013 16:02:58 GMT -5
No doubt there was some time pressure G, but you did consider what was important to you. If we had been given more time I'm sure a lot of things would have been different.
Still, when it opened this time there was a period of several days if I remember correctly. In the past it opened with a set # of apps that when received signalled the closing of the opportunity. That meant some open periods lasted ridiculously short spans and outsiders (without inside notice to be watching the job boards) were left out entirely.
The new process is much better and will result in significantly more qualified candidates and many more outsiders. The insider knowledge of the effect of gal selection is still undoubtedly an advantage, but not a very large one anymore between the extended time to apply and all the info traded on this board.
Still, the gal selection is a dangerous game to play. Sure some that went very limited may be left hanging despite high scores. But there will also be those that went wide open and either get blacklisted for turning down a gig they had on their gal or take a job and find themselves living somewhere they hate just to be called judge.
|
|
|
Post by redsox1 on Sept 14, 2013 16:03:22 GMT -5
I have a limited GAL for family reasons. One thing that is overlooked its that no one knows the details of the selection process. As I understand it, ssa starts in one location and works across the county. Thus, if they start in a less desirable place, if you score high you go. Perhaps by the time they get to where you want, a lower score gets you in because high scorers are gone. So it''s possible, in theory, that you are better off with a limited GAL if you dont want to move. On the other hand, perhaps that's wishful thinking. I can not sum it up any better than the Donald Rumsfeld quote in another thread about known knowns.
|
|
|
Post by westernalj on Sept 14, 2013 16:15:18 GMT -5
It seems to me that the higher number of people with limited GALS will ameliorate some of the impact a limited GAL had in the past. In other words, if most other people have a wide open GAL and you have a limited GAL, the odds are high that someone else will get the locations in which you are interested. If fewer people have your preferred locations on their list, because fewer have a wide GAL, then you have a better shot.
|
|
|
Post by 71stretch on Sept 14, 2013 16:16:00 GMT -5
I have a limited GAL for family reasons. One thing that is overlooked its that no one knows the details of the selection process. As I understand it, ssa starts in one location and works across the county. Actually, I don't think we know for sure that they "start in one location and works across the country", but it is absolutely true that the order in which selections are made can have a big effect on who gets hired off a given cert, and for what location.
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Sept 14, 2013 16:30:40 GMT -5
I have a limited GAL for family reasons. One thing that is overlooked its that no one knows the details of the selection process. As I understand it, ssa starts in one location and works across the county. Actually, I don't think we know for sure that they "start in one location and works across the country", but it is absolutely true that the order in which selections are made can have a big effect on who gets hired off a given cert, and for what location. This is not surprising and actually makes me feel better about the weirdness of the GAL anyway. I hadn't even thought about that part of the selection process but it stands to reason that the areas of greatest need (in terms of shortage of judges) would be those locations that are less desirable to begin with......
|
|