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Post by funkyodar on Oct 2, 2013 16:51:51 GMT -5
Don't think of it as applying for "an alj job." In reality, you have applied for a pantload of alj jobs depending on your gal selections. You are only competing for a job against the other candidates that also said they would go to any particular city. That realization, maybe late in coming due to poor explanation by opm, undoubtedly drives some who initially said they were open to only a few or very few cities to now want to expand their gal. Makes sense. We keep guestimating on the total number of slots that will ultimately be filled and trying to pile speculation on extrapulation to determine our chances of getting an offer. That methodolgy is flawed. The total number of openings doesn't matter. What doesis the number of openings in the specific cities you selected and how many other candidates are in competition for those cities. Add in the effect of the transfer list and its even more a boondoggle.
Those with wide open or at least pretty broad gals have a statistically better shot based soley on the fact they applied for more jobs. Throw in the fact that SSA will give you a harmless opportunity to cut cities you had listed during the cert process (but not add), and a wide gal seems the best play.
Still, there are drawbacks. If you listed a place, then didn't drop it at the cert level, you better really be willing to go there or essentially give up being a judge (I know you can technically decline 3 offers before being struck but with this size register and the qualifications of the competitors I wouldn't risk angering the selectors with a declination at all).
And don't expect the transfer ease of old to help you out of a place you didn't really want or decide you hate later. As discussed in other threads, easy and quick transfers are likely dead.
Now, Gaidan, you can have lower western crapland. That's by far the crappiest of craplands. Now, mid western crapland, well, funks got dibs.
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Post by epic0ego on Oct 2, 2013 17:14:12 GMT -5
Well, Mr. Funk, I have to give you credit again. Someone should bookmark funkyodar's last post on this thread. That about sums up the wisdom of how to go about the process of becoming an ALJ, apart from the biggest piece of preparing well for the tests. Had I seen that post 4 years ago, I may have had a different outcome. The only exception I would note is the comment that you are "only competing against" people who chose your cities. While that is true, it doesn't fully take into account the "smoke-filled rooms." OPM, perhaps in consultation with ODAR (and we will never know the full extent of this alleged consultation), has many people who can be chosen for a given city. The highest scorers tend to be the highest scorers for all the cities on their GAL - yet they are only offered one city, which they may reject. The military addresses this problem by having everyone express preferences, 1, 2, 3, etc. If you are the highest scorer for your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd preferences, then you get to decline preferences until you reach the level of the person with the next highest score. The point is that the system is skewed in favor of the persons who happen to select the "right city," rather than the ones with the highest scores. So while you are "only competing against people who chose your city," that pool can be very fluid. I agree with the ultimate conclusion, however, which is that crapland is bliss for many. I really do need to get out there and discover America.
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Post by epic0ego on Oct 2, 2013 17:37:28 GMT -5
devildog should consider a writer job with Letterman for his top 10 list. well done!
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Post by lurker/dibs on Oct 2, 2013 18:29:39 GMT -5
I'm very happy to see that my noble competitors have recognized my dibs power! Too, too bad I was working today. Seems I've missed many opportunities to call dibs! I want southeast crapland. Any ODAR within southeast crapland will be good with me! You can all get in line behind me for whatever choices are left after OPM figures out exactly which are already called by me!! And when I get a 12 for my final score I will know for sure if my dibs holds true and I actually get an offer!  |
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Post by epic0ego on Oct 2, 2013 18:37:32 GMT -5
I'm very happy to see that my noble competitors have recognized my dibs power! Too, too bad I was working today. Seems I've missed many opportunities to call dibs! I want southeast crapland. Any ODAR within southeast crapland will be good with me! You can all get in line behind me for whatever choices are left after OPM figures out exactly which are already called by me!! And when I get a 12 for my final score I will know for sure if my dibs holds true and I actually get an offer! lurker, I am just hoping you will not put San Francisco or New York on your list! |
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Post by lurker/dibs on Oct 2, 2013 18:42:46 GMT -5
Epic, I can guarantee you that I didn't even put New York or San Francisco on my GAL, much less call dibs on them! I'm sure, unless someone put every city down, I put places that no one else wants! And I only need dibs on one of those! |
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Post by epic0ego on Oct 2, 2013 18:57:28 GMT -5
lurker, clearly your odds are much better than mine. I am still learning this game. I am a southeast conference hater by the way. You guys are like the Yankees of NCAA football. I can only imagine what Alabama's revenues are. Do they even charge tuition?
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Post by lurker/dibs on Oct 2, 2013 19:47:48 GMT -5
Epic, it's a good school and the tuition is outrageous! Too bad they don't put the sports money into the scholarship fund! My husband actually graduated law school from there 20 years ago. Epic, you have to give us sports. We get droughts, hurricanes, populations well below poverty level, highest in divorce, high school drop outs, teenage pregnancy, and abortions. While we have the lowest in education, and standards of living. At least we can be good at sports. Southerners aren't really envied for anything else! I'm not so sure I know the game better than anyone. I simply listed everywhere that I would go. Thankfully where I would go is usually where everyone else wants to leave! We actually received a class of 8 ALJs one time and less than 2 years later not a single one was still at our ODAR. I just hope that same pattern holds true this time! |
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Post by epic0ego on Oct 3, 2013 3:07:49 GMT -5
sounds to me like you have an excellent strategy lurker. best wishes to you and family. Joe Scarborough of Morning Joe is also a 'Bama alumn, so I get to hear that every morning. lol. I don't really hate the southeast conference, just jealous is all. I'm a Seminole from way back but we went ACC about 10 years ago. The South is enjoying amazing growth which I am glad to see. In my case, it is not so much geographic chauvinism, as it is dealing with the practical issues of having family on both coasts. There is enough travel in my future as it is without adding to the problem. I am one who predicted that congress wouldn't dare shut down the gov't so you see how well I do with predictions. But that won't stop me from predicting that all of this business will only exacerbate the ALJ retirement pace. That should help all of us.
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Post by lurker/dibs on Oct 3, 2013 6:31:59 GMT -5
Epic, I hope you're right about that. I can totally see someone on the edge about whether to retire or not totally doing it rather that facing the prospect of dealing with another shut down. So that would be good news for all of us! I had an uncle who went to FSU. Back when we did play them, those were interesting games! And I'd always pull for them over UF! The state of Alabama has done well for football. Even the dreaded rival auburn can claim a national championship. For anyone who doesn't live in the region of the SEC, they don't get the wonderful climate, passion for sports, and the wonderful people. The beaches are great, too. You do have to deal with tornadoes, hurricanes, the majority of the population below poverty, uneducated, and borderline obsessively religious. But, It's a great place to live! And it's a far different pace than Yankee north! I'll move wherever they send me for the job and within my GAL. But ultimately I want to stay in the south. |
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Post by moopigsdad on Oct 3, 2013 7:54:58 GMT -5
Epic, I hope you're right about that. I can totally see someone on the edge about whether to retire or not totally doing it rather that facing the prospect of dealing with another shut down. So that would be good news for all of us! I had an uncle who went to FSU. Back when we did play them, those were interesting games! And I'd always pull for them over UF! The state of Alabama has done well for football. Even the dreaded rival auburn can claim a national championship. For anyone who doesn't live in the region of the SEC, they don't get the wonderful climate, passion for sports, and the wonderful people. The beaches are great, too. You do have to deal with tornadoes, hurricanes, the majority of the population below poverty, uneducated, and borderline obsessively religious. But, It's a great place to live! And it's a far different pace than Yankee north! I'll move wherever they send me for the job and within my GAL. But ultimately I want to stay in the south. Lurker I understand your devotion to the South. While I have practiced SSA disability law all over the U.S. (in about 46 contiguous states) in the last thirty years, I appreciate being in the Midwest rustbelt where I live now and grew up. However, I have a wide open GAL and would go to the South, if chosen for an ODAR there, although it wouldn't be my first choice. So, I have no problem with you having dibs on the area. I just would like to become an ALJ for SSA, but if offered a different federal agency, I wouldn't necessarily turn them down. My dilemma is the opposite of aljfaq's in that he doesn't want to work for SSA and I do. LOL! |
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Post by moopigsdad on Oct 3, 2013 7:56:08 GMT -5
Tonight's top ten list: Top ten reasons to take that city on your wide-open GAL you were offered: 10. You can easily find it on a map within 40 minutes. 9. At least two of the nine ALJs there are deemed "essential" during a shutdown. 8. You've already got connections there like that guy you met at a conference 17 years ago that died 16 years ago. 7. There is a Starbucks the next state over. 6. The leeches only bother you when it's not raining. 5. Lurker doesn't have dibs on it. 4. If you say "LBMT" out loud you can be arrested. 3. Four words: "Miss River Mussel Pageant." 2. Average temperature stays at a nice 50 degrees warmer than Room 1350 so if you bring a parka you'll be fine. And the number one reason to take that city on your wide-open GAL you were offered: 1. You got an offer. Devildog, I love the top ten reasons you listed. I could come up with a few others, but I like your ten a lot.  |
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Oct 3, 2013 9:55:49 GMT -5
OK, Epic, them there's fightin' words! Like Lurker I'm also a dyed-in-the-wool SEC guy, and a Son of the South. I love being in the stadium near the end of an epic SEC brawl when the whole place, all fans, begin chanting "SEC!" If you're a part of the regional pride here, lots of the "crapland" destinations are really diamonds in the rough. Like Lurker, I'd be happy with any of them. Funky and Observer thanks for the clarification on the "one-offer" question. It's a shame that the OPM doesn't take into account the fact that it could place a high scoring candidate with a wide-open GAL in multiple places. However, I guess the flipside is the logistic nightmare of trying to "negotiate" with multiple candidates all at the same time for multiple locations, creating a need to stagger offers as placements were made. It would be so interesting to see the voodoo behind the "Lets make him an offer . . . HERE!!" process. |
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Post by moopigsdad on Oct 3, 2013 12:25:30 GMT -5
My dilemma is the opposite of aljfaq's in that he doesn't want to work for SSA and I do. LOL! That's why everyone who wants to work for SSA should be praying that I make the register and score high. Because if you and I happen to be 2 of the 3 that get called to interview for an SSA slot, you know your chances of winning just went from 33% to 50%. I like those odds aljfaq. However, I don't see you tanking an interview for an ALJ position, even if for SSA. Just like I wouldn't tank an interview for an ALJ job at the Labor Department. I do hope you score well only because you are a member of the Board and I wish the same for everyone on the Board, including myself. Perhaps, karma will work out and we both will get what we want. |
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Post by 71stretch on Oct 3, 2013 13:10:59 GMT -5
My dilemma is the opposite of aljfaq's in that he doesn't want to work for SSA and I do. LOL! That's why everyone who wants to work for SSA should be praying that I make the register and score high. Because if you and I happen to be 2 of the 3 that get called to interview for an SSA slot, you know your chances of winning just went from 33% to 50%. Well, that math doesn't work. No one is bring interviewed with a particular spot in mind. So, if you are offered an SSA slot and turn it down, or are out of the picture in some other way, no other person's odds get that much better. |
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Post by epic0ego on Oct 3, 2013 15:19:03 GMT -5
great to see all the SECers representin'. We still don't get how you folks can do it with relatively few recruiting scandals. other conferences need to take a page from your booster support book. I don't quite get observer 53's view that your odds are not that much improved if the person(s) ahead of you for that city get eliminated for whatever reason. I don't see how that could be true. I am personally hoping that folks with wide open GALs will be dispersed to areas with fewer GAL selections, if their scores are equivalent to others who have more restricted GAL selections. Wouldn't this approach possibly result in the selection of more high scorers? If 200 of the final 1200 pick New York as their only city, and only 2 ALJs are selected for New York, wouldn't this create the anomalous effect of eliminating 198 ALJs who may otherwise have been amongst the highest scorers in the pool? I recognize, however, that OPM/ODAR may go the opposite way and "incentivize" those with wide-open GALs by giving them the "tie-breaker" advantage over those with equivalent scores and limited GALs.
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Post by epic0ego on Oct 3, 2013 16:05:23 GMT -5
I misstated the New York example earlier. If 200 alj candidates pick NY on their GAL selections and only 2 aljs are picked this cycle, the other 198 would definitely be eliminated from further consideration unless they picked other cities. The anomaly I want to draw attention to is the situation where the 2 aljs who were picked, might also have been the highest scorers for 10 other cities where they might have preferred to go. Wouldn't it be better if those two high scorers could go to the other cities where they prefer to go anyway, and then allow the third and fourth highest scorers for NY to advance? I know that is not the current system but this might be something the union could raise in future discussions with management.
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Post by redryder on Oct 3, 2013 16:32:11 GMT -5
OPM has nothing to do with the hiring by the individual agencies. The agency asks OPM to prepare a list of eligible candidates for a particular location. Once that list is issued, OPM is out of the picture. The agency does the interview and makes the job offer.
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Post by epic0ego on Oct 3, 2013 16:55:18 GMT -5
OPM compiles the GAL and sends the list of eligibles to agencies that request it. I think it is no secret that there is close consultation between OPM and federal agencies that request the ALJ list of eligibles, especially the SSA (ODAR). Many agencies have been complaining to OPM that they "cater" too much to ODAR's needs. This was my point about what goes on in the "smoke-filled rooms" where ALJ selections are actually made. Alot of it is mysterious, as others have pointed out, and will likely remain so. It adds a little complication, but I think it would be a better system if OPM solicited 1st, 2nd, and 3rd GAL preferences from the outset.
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Post by 71stretch on Oct 3, 2013 22:45:25 GMT -5
great to see all the SECers representin'. We still don't get how you folks can do it with relatively few recruiting scandals. other conferences need to take a page from your booster support book. I don't quite get observer 53's view that your odds are not that much improved if the person(s) ahead of you for that city get eliminated for whatever reason. Aljfaq is acting on the presumption that he's one of three being interviewed for a particular slot. It doesn't work that way. They don't call it Puzzle Palace for nothing. How many spots, what spots he actually gets considered for, which spots are filled first, 10 point vets, and all the other variables that make the Puzzle Palace what it is play into this scenario. There have been times. I think, when someone has turned down an offer, and the slot ended up not getting filled. That may not happen with this shiny new register, though. And, all this is academic until we know how high his score is. |
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