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Post by Highlander on Oct 19, 2013 8:01:34 GMT -5
I have what is probably a simple question that has been previously asked and answered. But I couldn't find it using the search function. Let's say I am on active duty in one of the military services and I receive my NOR and am placed on the register. I am not yet a veteran, so haven't received a final disability determination. Subsequently I leave active duty and receive a final disability rating with all the associated documentation (let's say it entitles me to claim 10 points). Can I simply send the documents to OPM and have the 10 points added to my current score? Or do I have to start over and take the test again, and have the 10 points added the 2d time around?
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Post by ssaogc on Oct 19, 2013 8:22:34 GMT -5
You can do both, read the job announcement both issues are addressed.
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Post by Gaidin on Oct 19, 2013 8:50:17 GMT -5
I don't remember who but someone on here got their 5 pts raised to 10 pts during the process and had them applied to their scores.
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Post by bartleby on Oct 19, 2013 10:46:25 GMT -5
To be entitled to preference, a veteran must meet the eligibility requirements in section 2108 of title 5, United States Code. This means that:
An honorable or general discharge is necessary.
Military retirees at the rank of major, lieutenant commander, or higher are not eligible for preference unless they are disabled veterans.
Guard and Reserve active duty for training purposes does not qualify for preference.
Ten points are added to the passing examination score of:
A veteran who served any time and who (1) has a present service- connected disability or (2) is receiving compensation, disability retirement benefits, or pension from the military or the Department of Veterans Affairs. Individuals who received a Purple Heart qualify as disabled veterans.
An unmarried spouse of certain deceased veterans, a spouse of a veteran unable to work because of a service-connected disability, and
A mother of a veteran who died in service or who is permanently and totally disabled.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Oct 20, 2013 0:47:41 GMT -5
I don't remember who but someone on here got their 5 pts raised to 10 pts during the process and had them applied to their scores. It was me. I'm a reservist. My 5-point is based on a DD214 from Iraq. My 10-point was based on a service-connected disability. I applied for disability with the VA in July 2012. The application was still pending when the current ALJ application opened up. VA approved my claim for disability over the Summer. I submitted documentation to the ALJ help desk email and received notification while I was on the way to DC. Now I can apply at any time. I hope I get appointed and never need to use that feature. |
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Benny
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Post by Benny on Oct 29, 2013 8:06:32 GMT -5
Just to clarify, being in the National Guard part time does not count. Also, you must be retired from the military to get the 5 points?
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Post by ssaogc on Oct 29, 2013 8:41:01 GMT -5
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Post by juno64 on Oct 29, 2013 9:29:30 GMT -5
Fellow Vets - as I am new to this game, what is the process for applying/taking the ALJ exam pursuant to a 10-pt vet preference? As I am still awaiting my NOR, is there an advantage to taking an "out-of-cycle" ALJ exam? Does it increase my chances? Any info is greatly appreciated - as I am sure this has been discussed in a previous thread. Thanks for the help!
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oldschool
Full Member
Newbie FAQ Contributor
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Post by oldschool on Oct 29, 2013 9:53:50 GMT -5
I would recommend emailing the ALJ application help desk at OPM and tell them you are a 10 point vet and want to apply. They will, if memory serves, send you an email asking you to send in scanned copies of your DD214 and a letter from the VA providing your service connected status. Then you will get instructions for how to complete the application.
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Post by moopigsdad on Oct 29, 2013 10:08:27 GMT -5
Fellow Vets - as I am new to this game, what is the process for applying/taking the ALJ exam pursuant to a 10-pt vet preference? As I am still awaiting my NOR, is there an advantage to taking an "out-of-cycle" ALJ exam? Does it increase my chances? Any info is greatly appreciated - as I am sure this has been discussed in a previous thread. Thanks for the help! Why would you want to redo the testing when you haven't received your most recent NOR yet? Wouldn't it make more sense to wait for your NOR and then if unhappy with it, redo the exam? Are you so sure you completely screwed up the most recent testing that you want to redo the exam prior to receiving your NOR? Do you realize that your new NOR will replace your old NOR, even if the new score is less than the original score? I would wait to see where I am prior to proceeding with a redo of the examination process, but that is just me. |
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oldschool
Full Member
Newbie FAQ Contributor
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Post by oldschool on Oct 29, 2013 15:55:13 GMT -5
I apologize. I missed the part about waiting on your NOR. If you applied as a 10 point veteran and OPM acknowledged it when you went through the process, I can see no advantage to testing "out of cycle." Therefore, there is no beneift to applying again before you receive your score.
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Post by decadealj on Oct 31, 2013 13:23:15 GMT -5
10 point preference can be a double edged sword- it can certainly help but I have heard from knowledgeable folks at ODAR relate that the agency can and does batch 10 point preference vets against each other to use the 3 strike rule against them. That information is 20 years old and I am not certain it still happens.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Oct 31, 2013 14:21:30 GMT -5
10 point preference can be a double edged sword- it can certainly help but I have heard from knowledgeable folks at ODAR relate that the agency can and does batch 10 point preference vets against each other to use the 3 strike rule against them. That information is 20 years old and I am not certain it still happens. And I have heard the same thing - the question is "How?" If it is a question of the 10-points being among the high scorers, they're really doing it to themselves. But, I ask again - just what the mechanism would be to pit them together. Some of the reasonable answers I got was that "they" pull cities they have no intention of hiring to 3-strike the 10-points, or that the do multiple vacancies so they can pull from 6 or 9, but they could do that with ANYBODY, making the entire thing a crapshoot/subject to the whim of ODAR, and the scores truly mean nothing. However, my response to that remains - Vets are still hired, at healthy percentages, ditto for high scorers, generally (while anecdotally, I admit we all know people who were hired with low scores, and high scorers 3-struck, in relatively short order). And, again, there are plenty of Veterans in the civilian service - if this practice were truly going on in a systematic way, all of those Veterans would just keep quiet about it? Or is this another example where Occam's Razor can help us - 10-point preference Vets tend to cluster together at the top, so they end up on more certificates with other 10-point preferences on the early certificates, and subsequently get 3-struck fairly quickly, if they have a broad GAL (and this is the SOLE exception to the wide GAL rule - if you're a Vet AND get a high final score, you might want to consider paring your GAL back to avoid this very phenomenon). I truly don't know and I enjoy this board's collective wisdom on this issue - but, is it really as nefarious as the agency pitting Vets against one another? Or does the system do that because of math? |
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Post by workdrone on Oct 31, 2013 16:43:26 GMT -5
I truly don't know and I enjoy this board's collective wisdom on this issue - but, is it really as nefarious as the agency pitting Vets against one another? Or does the system do that because of math? Once up on a time, the ALJ ranks were made up almost exclusively of attorneys with veteran's preferences. However, since the most recent cycle of hiring started in 2008, vets have been roughly about 30%-40% of those hired as opposed to the 90%+ back in the 1990s. No one on this board really knows what's the true cause of this change in ALJ hiring results that has allowed more non-vets to get hired, and those in the Star Chamber of Puzzle Palace ain't talking. Could just be a change in demographics. Could be a change in the OPM testing scheme after the Azdell litigation. Could also be a conspiracy. There are numerous possibilities, and that's what makes speculation fun.  |
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Post by decadealj on Nov 1, 2013 10:02:12 GMT -5
I know from experience that many of the vets hired in the 90's were former military judges who's experience led to high qualification scores. When OPM changed the qualification criteria to include decision writing experience ( to reach SAs and other folks from within SSA) in 2004 or whenever, they had to scale down the top of the listing of best qualified eligibles to reach down the register. As for the results, res ipsa loquitur.
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Post by ssaogc on Nov 1, 2013 10:19:42 GMT -5
Does anyone know how JAGs fare in the selection process? I understand that most of the folks on the register who have the vet preference are not necessarily former JAGs, but vets who went into the law after serving in other military fields. I suspect that the JAGs are looked upon more favorably, especially those that were military judges or prosecutors/defense attorneys in courts martial.
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Post by bartleby on Nov 1, 2013 12:06:36 GMT -5
From my observation, JAG's do very well. My current office of 16 Judges has 4 ex-JAG's. Interesting, they were all outsiders. We have 2 ex-JAG's that are attorney-Advisors and they have applied several times and not been selected.. None of the JAG Judges were 10 point, they were all 5 point.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Nov 1, 2013 13:14:26 GMT -5
From my observation, JAG's do very well. My current office of 16 Judges has 4 ex-JAG's. Interesting, they were all outsiders. We have 2 ex-JAG's that are attorney-Advisors and they have applied several times and not been selected.. None of the JAG Judges were 10 point, they were all 5 point. One of our insiders (SAA) is a 5-point and did not advance to the final step this time, despite being on the register previously. The 4 judges we have now that, that I know for sure have a Veteran's preference - only 1 was JAG (a 10-point). Our newest judge was military, but I am not certain if he is a 5-point or was JAG. All of the male judges at my office had a veteran's preference and if our new hire does, we're still at 100%. There are only 2 SAA/AAs (myself included) with a preference and 1 out of 2 advanced to DC. The rest of the SupvA/SAA/AA group that applied from our office went 0-4 (and this number included 3 highly experienced ODAR insiders). |
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Post by decadealj on Nov 1, 2013 14:53:48 GMT -5
Several ALJs who have served on selection panels reflected that other than insiders with a known track record, former service members and JAGs are presumed to being accustomed to a chain of command management structure and used to "not rocking the boat". In my former office, of the 7 ALJs, 4 were retired or reserve JAGs of which 3 were retired military judges. It was a very tight group who lunched together daily and routinely collaborated on difficult or unusual issues. We shared decision language we had drafted and the writers liked to incorporate into decisions. Our only problem was the RO and their minions who couldn't keep their noses out of way and which adversely affected productivity because other than the HOCALJ, the management supervisors were all non-lawyers and cared nothing about due process- just the weekly body count. But I digress from the topic- mea culpa.
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