The HOCALJ From Hell

[jcse]

Ok, the HOCALJ from Hell is accusing my colleague of a serious offense. Are there any ALJ folks out there who have gone through a Weingarten? What is involved?

[bartleby]

From what I understand, a Weingarten is an investigative discussion with the HOCALJ that may lead to discipline. For that reason one may have the LAR (Union Rep) present. The LAR should know and understand the Weingarten process. If not they should talk to their Region Union person to be prepared. Further, if one has the liability insurance we have discussed on the Board several times, one should contact them immediately. Historically Weingarten was reservered for the rank and file staff in the office. The HOCALJ was basically a timekeeper for Judges, approving their leave. ODAR is attempting to elevate HOCALJ's to supervisors of the Judges, a dangerous thing and questionable considering the APA. The Union is your only friend in these matters. Good luck.

[decadealj]

I guess I have been gone long enough to relate that I was once the subject of such an investigation by another HOCALJ from hell when I confronted a GS and advised her if she changed another one of my a case status reports to make herself look good, that I would file a criminal complaint in federal court for falsifying the body count. This of course reflected adversely on said HOCALJ who was a party to the fraud. He told me I could have a LAR present; I screamed at him he could go to hell loud enough that most of the office heard it. When he said he'd have to refer to the RCJ, I invited him to go right ahead because the RCJ was equally responsible by hiding behind the RMOs. I was looking for a fight but it never materialized; the HOCALJ from hell didn't last another 4 months and retired under some other cloud.

I certainly hope this kind of chicanery isn't going on any more but sooner or later you have to take a stand and the agency isn't aggressive as you think when they are flat wrong. But certainly as has been reported on this blog before, if you make yourself a target for a pretext by the agency, you had better have your own house in order.

[sealaw90]

That is an awesome story Decade, and I appreciate your willingness to share.  Not everybody gets so lucky to stand up for themselves.  Since we don't know what the 'serious offense' claimed by jcse really is, it is difficult to give our 2-cents worth on their friend's situation.
In my days as a defense attorney, my advice to folks was never go into an interview willingly, and if you must, never go into an interview unrepresented.  Pretty standard, but you can't believe how many folks ignored it.  Kept me busy though representing them at their hearings & trials!

[onceinawhile]

I obviously know none of the details regarding decadealj's situation. But regardless of the details, I question whether "scream[ing] . . . go to hell" loud enough for all to hear is a constructive or productive approach to any sort of disagreement. Even those who disagree vigorously can do so in a civil fashion. Judicial independence applies to our decision-making; outside of the hearing room, we are all employees (and, respectfully to Bartelby, the HOCALJ is a supervisor). Screaming go to hell to your boss seems unadvisable in nearly all circumstances.

[jcse]

I am not at liberty to give more details about this incident on this forum, but Bartelby, I messaged you. Whatever I learn, I will share here. Although it may have been inappropriate for Decade to yell, I can totally relate to his sentiments. The way they run this agency, and the way ALJs are treated, can literally drive you crazy!

So, Decade, am I understanding that you refused to go through with the weingarten and they dropped it?

[privateatty]

Nov 25, 2013 20:25:00 GMT -5 onceinawhile said:

I obviously know none of the details regarding decadealj's situation. But regardless of the details, I question whether "scream[ing] . . . go to hell" loud enough for all to hear is a constructive or productive approach to any sort of disagreement. Even those who disagree vigorously can do so in a civil fashion. Judicial independence applies to our decision-making; outside of the hearing room, we are all employees (and, respectfully to Bartelby, the HOCALJ is a supervisor). Screaming go to hell to your boss seems unadvisable in nearly all circumstances.

One of the advantages of being in a private practice devoted to litigation for so many years is that you pretty much see it all: screamers at depos, Machiavelian back-stabbers, liars and cheats. Kevin Spacey's character in "House of Cards" (Netflix) offers a good example of why revenge is best served as a cold dish.

When you become an ALJ (IMHO) you have an absolute duty to act professionally--at all times. You also have a duty to use your brain and all your experience to achieve a desired end to an office plague.

[deltajudge]

:|Well I know where decade is coming from. First, don't ever think the HOCALJ is your boss. The HOCALJ in many offices has less experience than the ALJs there. There are no specific qualifications for the position, other than a desire for a step increase or transfer. They are there at the pleasure of the regional office and the RCALJ. he/she bows down to them and serves at their will. Most of the ALJICs and later on, HKOCALJs I worked with were great, didn't bother anyone as long as the work got done, and took up for ALJs when region came around. That all changed in later years. The last two I worked with (note I said with, not under) were pawns of regional and management. They didn't think anything about coming around to the ALJs and asking, not putting anything in writing, about leaving cases in ALPO at the end of the month and not moving them to UNWR, among other things. I refused these blatant falsifications as did most of the other ALJs in the office. My blow up was more personal. I was always a high producer, because I grew up with a work ethic. I simply moved my cases. The HOCALJ, who was barely out of training had it in for me for some reason. He and the HOM were always nit picking, worrying the crap out of me. It came to a head when he jumped me about my credit hours, and how did I justify them. I got a coupla ALJs, friends, and went to his office. What decade did was mild compared to what I did. Everybody on the floor heard it, and came around to say how much they appreciated it. Nothing ever happened, and like decade's HOCALJ, this one was not long for whatever world he lived in. The HOCALJ is a limp dishrag when it comes to authority. Just do your job and ignore him/her.

[alj]

Nov 26, 2013 17:55:02 GMT -5 deltajudge said:

The HOCALJ is a limp dishrag when it comes to authority. Just do your job and ignore him/her.

You have been gone awhile. Things have changed.

[deltajudge]

8-)Maybe you have.

[bartleby]

alj, concur, sadly.

[deltajudge]

:|Well alj and bart, it is sad. I worked with several ALJICs and HOCALJs over the years, and for the only exception, had good working relationships. I gather the new HOCALJs are the conduit for local application of management machinations. I guess new ALJs are cowed, and can't really blame them. When I went through training way back in the day, independence of the judges was stressed. As y'a;; pointed out, not anymore. Tell you though, it was fun jousting back then. Good luck.

[Deleted]

[alexfish]

Amen Publicservant. In particular, the thought that a federal employee, under any circumstances, would think it is ok to raise their voice and speak profanity to another employee is flat out sad.

[deltajudge]

;-|Wow!!! publicservant and alexfish, you have completely overwhelmed me. I have absolutely no problem with you being subservient to the whims of the HOCALJ via regional and the RCALJ. When the HOCALJ or someone comes around and asks you to not move cases in a certain way, go on and do it, and by all means, pay no mind to principle.alj and bart are correct, things have changed.

[bartleby]

Publicservant, you note, "disserving the public by failing to meet reasonable benchmarks all the while hiding inability behind judicial independence." Others have the opinion that one is disserving the public by skipping development not properly reviewing files prehearing far enough ahead to order ME's and CE's for the claimant. I would further suggest that when management tells the staff to only touch the file one time, does not require to-do's and EFT's to be handled properly in an effort to move cases, one is disserving the public. I had a hearing this week wherein the claimant had filed a DIRE need on August 14, 2013, including the papers from her mortgage company noticing sale under power on September 3, 2013. This was logged into CPMS on Austust 14, 2013. This was never brought to my attention and the lady lost her home. She was 59 years old with PRW at medium and recently had back surgery. I could have paid it on the record or scheduled her a hearing on my lunch hour. This is consistent with the support I receive in my office. I was told by management that I could increase my numbers by not reviewing the files prior to hearings, but waiting until afterwards so I had an idea as to what to look for. This is the new and improved management I am seeing in ODAR. It's not all about numbers. It is about doing the right thing and turning out a quality and legally defensive product and guess what, I am the one that judges what is legally defensive when my name and reputation is on it. Oh, by the way, don't forget the HOCALJ that threatened to punch a female union ALJ in the face. This from a recent e-mail: Please be advised that, in addition to having to sign the Notice below, Judge Barry has been ordered to undergo anger management training as a result of threatening to punch AALJ’s Regional Vice President Linda Stagno in the mouth because of her vigorous representation of our judges.

Perhaps he could open a hot dog stand???

[jcse]

Amen Bartleby. What you described is a mess and it is the Order of the Day at many ODAR offices. I often feel shame, debilitating shame, at facing a claimant when such circumstances were not brought to my attention. This job requires intensive medical training; intensive knowledge of complex computer applications; intensive CLERICAL skills that most of us were not trained for or prepared for, and should not have to deal with; intensive analysis of legal, medical, and subjective evidence, and the unrealistic expectation that this can all be done in a a 40-hr. week and a 45 hearing month, which is totally implausible. To add to that stress, we often have to deal with HOCALJs that harrass, intimidate, and reprimand the best of judges - for purely personal reasons or because they are in a position of power.

Judge Stagno is one of the most outspoken and dedicated judges ODAR has ever seen. It is a shame that
anyone threatening her w/ physical violence was not removed immediately, as a line judge likely would have been - and as any rational manager would likely do in the private sector.

[prescient]

Nov 27, 2013 23:46:15 GMT -5 jcse said:

. This job requires intensive medical training;

In all honesty, having an intensive background in medical training should be criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 in order to be selected for this job. What is your basis for reading someone's medical records, and then determining how his/her impairments would likely affect their ability to work, within the framework of the guidelines provided by the SS Act and its regulations? If you don't have a background in medical knowledge, you really are just guessing, which is doing a substantial disservice to the public. This skill is really not something you can learn on the job.

[jcse]

prescient, you have touched on one of the surrealistic things about our jobs, and why many ALJs believe the only way to do our jobs properly is by having a medical expert (ME) present at all hearings. Remember that ODAR co-exists within SSA, and SSA is run by non-lawyers who will never comprehend what we need to our job, and why it sometimes feels like I am conducting Kangaroo Court. OCALJ is doing better now than in previous years. When i was hired at OHA/ODAR decades ago, I was told staff attys never get selected as ALJs. It just did not happen. My ALJ class 2 yrs. ago class was predominantly experienced ODAR attys, private attys w/ ODAR experience,and state workers comp judges, so SSA is finally getting it. OCALJ also now requires mandatory legal (and some medical) training for its attys and ALJs, which was non-existant 20 yrs. ago.

[privateatty]

Nov 27, 2013 18:16:33 GMT -5 @publivservant said:

I had to register to comment on this thread. What a bunch of bloviating self-importance on display. Let's clear up a few apparent willful misunderstandings:

1. Fellow ALJs, you DO have an actual first and second line supervisor in ODAR (HOCALJ and RCALJ);
2. The HOCALJ is the lead management official in the Hearing Office, followed by the HOD;
3. You are responsible for following the Standards of Conduct, just as any other agency employee (you receive Annual Personnel Reminders outlining these rules--check out 1.6 regarding the mandate to treat coworkers and the public with courtesy and respect);
4. You must cooperate in an investigatory administrative interview, otherwise known as a Weingarten interview. Failure to cooperate is in itself ample grounds to discipline an employee;
5. Yelling and using profanity in the workplace is something that any employee should be disciplined for--not boasted about anonymously on an internet message board. The fact that some claim to have done so and faced no consequences can only be attributed to a supervisor who likely lacked administrative support to develop the disciplinary action against the ALJ;
6. In our current culture an ALJ engaging in such misconduct would appropriately be facing charges before the MSPB;
7. Any ALJ who fails to follow the standards of conduct diminishes the position and is not worth the respect he or she so clearly and desperately craves;
8. I am an ALJ;
9. I am not a HOCALJ--nor would I ever want to be. I have seen our HOCALJ be bullied by long-timers intent on disserving the public by failing to meet reasonable benchmarks all the while hiding inability behind judicial independence.

Colleagues, do your job, serve the public, and if you find yourself the subject of a Weingarten, cooperate and rationally defend yourself with representation. If, however, you want to delude yourself that you are untouchable and answerable to no one, do us all a favor and leave the robe behind, take your savings and open a hotdog stand. You can run it exactly the way you want and be the boss and make your own rules. I have seen plenty of decision writers and reps who will make excellent ALJs in your place. They will happily buy a hotdog for lunch--if you treat them with respect.

Ah, the "bloviating self-importance on display." Who canot be enamored of this well-reasoned post?

Of course your observation is unimpeachable, publivservant.

Nonetheless, it fails to offer up an alternative to the HOD from Hell when Agency remedies fail to address nor remedy the problem. This is where you have to carefully plot if you want to have any chance of removing the cancer. As lawyers we all should appreciate this and the theme is well represented in tv and print. Sticking one's head in the sand merely enables.