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Post by northbend on Dec 11, 2013 23:27:33 GMT -5
So what do we think the budget deal means for the timing of NOR's and ALJ hiring?
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Post by privateatty on Dec 12, 2013 8:23:10 GMT -5
From Federal Times yesterday:
"The newly unveiled budget agreement should ease — but not eliminate — pressure on agencies to resort to unpaid furloughs and reductions-in-force over the next two years, former federal officials and other observers said Wednesday.
The agreement, announced late Tuesday by a House-Senate budget committee, would partially repeal sequester-related spending cuts set to take effect in fiscal 2014 and 2015. By giving agencies longer-term certainty over their budgets, the deal would also allow managers to plan for reductions in travel and other areas besides personnel, said Henry Romero, a one-time Office of Personnel Management executive now at Federal Management Partners, a consulting firm.
But with budgets still tight, Romero added, the new framework could still cause pain for agencies “in terms of how many dollars do we have available for our manpower costs.”
The deal still needs approval from the full House and Senate, followed by a full-year spending package to spell out budgets for individual agencies.
Under the agreement, “it’s going to be better for everybody,” said Matt Biggs, legislative and political director for the International Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers, a union representing employees at NASA and other agencies. “The question is, how much better?”"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The bottom line for now is that all agencies are in alot better shape they were a week ago. The clamoring by each agency for their budget wish vs. the allocated reality will begin in arnest after the holiday recess at the sub-committee level where the real work is done. SSA, SEC, NLRB are agencies that in the past have been subjected to changing political winds. SSA has been able to benefit from anxious and angry constituents putting pressure on their congress-people to fund. Whether that is a factor today depends on the district and shifting power bases in the House.
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Post by moopigsdad on Dec 12, 2013 10:27:00 GMT -5
I would venture to guess that SSA will replace ALJs at the same rate as last year, which is at a 1/3 rate. It is likely to be replacement with a new ALJ for every three ALJs who leave service. Hence, hiring will occur, but at a severely reduced rate. This is likely to be the case until the backlog of cases becomes so great due to a lack of ALJs that Congress appropriates more cash for SSA to hire more ALJs. Hence, do not expect a lot of ALJ hiring by SSA in 2014. This is not good news for those of us waiting for the NORs.
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Post by futuressaalj on Dec 12, 2013 12:09:36 GMT -5
Sounds like the ssa budget will still be a challange. Ssa must decide where to allocate resources and it did not get extra money to bring backlog down. So. I suspect that there will be hiring but that it will not be enough to satisfy the legions of hungry wannabes who want the robe The NORs will be out in spring time i figure. As i have read on here they are tied to ssa hiring plans. If ssa wants to hire a class asap the NORs will be out in a NY minute but if SSA is not planning to hire anytime soon opm will not ramp up operations to get the scores out and start processing appeals. Folks go on with your lives. Even getting an NOR puts you no where near getting a job offer
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Post by Gaidin on Dec 12, 2013 12:54:03 GMT -5
There is no reason to believe that NOR release dates are tied to SSA hiring deadlines. People have repeatedly stated that OPM doesn't like SSA telling them what to do or when to do it. Why then would we believe that OPM will delay the release of NORs to coincide with SSA's hiring? Especially, when there is strong indication that OMHA may be hiring a good sized class. I can see OPM delaying until after all tests are graded and that may mean into January (still hoping for next week ) but since the budget deal likely means that OPM knows that it won't be shutting down and can process appeals accordingly I can't see any reason for additional delay. That of course doesn't change the reality that any hiring by SSA may be small. If the legions of ALJs actually retire as predicted then we might see a class of 60 or 70 get hired in fiscal '14. That assumes a 1/3 hires to losses. I think its possible that if attrition is high enough they may have to have to hire at a larger ratio. Remember this last hire was based on "regular" attrition. If attrition is significantly different then a different ration may be needed. 60 or 70 OMHA and 60 or 70 SSA though is still some pretty good movement and I will gladly take my spin on the wheel.
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Post by jessejames on Dec 12, 2013 13:16:35 GMT -5
I agree. The OPM has given a lot of time and effort to producing a new crop of ALJs. I can see no reason to delay any harvest of this crop. Otherwise, these efforts would seem misplaced. As we know, there is a shortage that needs to be met.
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Post by futuressaalj on Dec 12, 2013 16:40:59 GMT -5
There is no reason to believe that NOR release dates are tied to SSA hiring deadlines. People have repeatedly stated that OPM doesn't like SSA telling them what to do or when to do it. Why then would we believe that OPM will delay the release of NORs to coincide with SSA's hiring? Especially, when there is strong indication that OMHA may be hiring a good sized class. I can see OPM delaying until after all tests are graded and that may mean into January (still hoping for next week ) but since the budget deal likely means that OPM knows that it won't be shutting down and can process appeals accordingly I can't see any reason for additional delay. That of course doesn't change the reality that any hiring by SSA may be small. If the legions of ALJs actually retire as predicted then we might see a class of 60 or 70 get hired in fiscal '14. That assumes a 1/3 hires to losses. I think its possible that if attrition is high enough they may have to have to hire at a larger ratio. Remember this last hire was based on "regular" attrition. If attrition is significantly different then a different ration may be needed. 60 or 70 OMHA and 60 or 70 SSA though is still some pretty good movement and I will gladly take my spin on the wheel. Where do you think the money for the AlJ program comes from? Who do you think is funding the appeals processing? There is a link on here somwhere about how ssa funds their pro rata share 95 percent or some high number like that of the alj program vua inter agency agreement
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Post by Gaidin on Dec 12, 2013 20:50:23 GMT -5
There is no reason to believe that NOR release dates are tied to SSA hiring deadlines. People have repeatedly stated that OPM doesn't like SSA telling them what to do or when to do it. Why then would we believe that OPM will delay the release of NORs to coincide with SSA's hiring? Especially, when there is strong indication that OMHA may be hiring a good sized class. I can see OPM delaying until after all tests are graded and that may mean into January (still hoping for next week ) but since the budget deal likely means that OPM knows that it won't be shutting down and can process appeals accordingly I can't see any reason for additional delay. That of course doesn't change the reality that any hiring by SSA may be small. If the legions of ALJs actually retire as predicted then we might see a class of 60 or 70 get hired in fiscal '14. That assumes a 1/3 hires to losses. I think its possible that if attrition is high enough they may have to have to hire at a larger ratio. Remember this last hire was based on "regular" attrition. If attrition is significantly different then a different ration may be needed. 60 or 70 OMHA and 60 or 70 SSA though is still some pretty good movement and I will gladly take my spin on the wheel. Where do you think the money for the AlJ program comes from? Who do you think is funding the appeals processing? There is a link on here somwhere about how ssa funds their pro rata share 95 percent or some high number like that of the alj program vua inter agency agreement SSA has already incurred the expense i.e. the testing. The appeals cost will be a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of generating a new test and administering it. There is no reason to think that SSA gets to dictate to OPM when the results come out especially when other customers want access to the register. The fact that at least initially other agencies will possibly hire as many if not more judges off the register further bodes ill for SSA dictating timing to OPM. Obviously, your time line may be correct for the reasons you cite or for others unknown. But imaging government bureaucracy as "customer oriented" especially when the customer is another agency . Additionally, there are many other examples here that OPM resents any time that SSA attempts to dictate aspects of the process.
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Post by ssaogc on Dec 12, 2013 21:24:15 GMT -5
Where do you think the money for the AlJ program comes from? Who do you think is funding the appeals processing? There is a link on here somwhere about how ssa funds their pro rata share 95 percent or some high number like that of the alj program vua inter agency agreement SSA has already incurred the expense i.e. the testing. The appeals cost will be a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of generating a new test and administering it. There is no reason to think that SSA gets to dictate to OPM when the results come out especially when other customers want access to the register. The fact that at least initially other agencies will possibly hire as many if not more judges off the register further bodes ill for SSA dictating timing to OPM. Obviously, your time line may be correct for the reasons you cite or for others unknown. But imaging government bureaucracy as "customer oriented" especially when the customer is another agency . Additionally, there are many other examples here that OPM resents any time that SSA attempts to dictate aspects of the process. You sure make a lot of pronouncements that are nothing more than closing arguments. SSA has already incurred the expense? That is not the way that OPM is reimbursed, SSA does not pay up front, it pays after. SSA may not dictate the actual mechanics and content of the test but since they are footing the bill SSA does have a say in many other aspects. Indeed, SSA has twice asked OPM to open the register since 2007--is that not dictating. Other agencies hire more judges than SSA? Where are you getting this information from? Rumors that HHS may be hiring? We do not even know what the HHS budget is. OPM’s Explanation for the Increase in ALJ Program Costs Between FYs 2005 and 2012, overall OPM charges to SSA for ALJ services have more than tripled, and the charges per ALJ have more than doubled (see Table 1). OPM indicated that ALJ costs have increased as a result of (1) development of the examination opened in 2007;(2) subsequent re- openings of that examination (twice at SSA’s request);(3) development of a new iteration of the ALJ examination instrument;and (4) a 35 percent increase in the ALJ workforce requiring OPM’s routine activities related to administering the ALJ Program Read the report below (above quote comes from page 10) and make your own conclusions at what SSA's relationship is with OPM regarding the ALJ program: oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/audit/full/pdf/A-05-12-22144.pdfYou appear to have limited knowledge on how inter agency funding via the Economy Act, Franchise Act or other fiscal authorities work. There are numerous and I mean numerous agencies in the federal Government that have customer type relationships where one agency depends on another for it to be a financial "sponsor"
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Post by Gaidin on Dec 13, 2013 8:48:53 GMT -5
SSA has already incurred the expense i.e. the testing. The appeals cost will be a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of generating a new test and administering it. There is no reason to think that SSA gets to dictate to OPM when the results come out especially when other customers want access to the register. The fact that at least initially other agencies will possibly hire as many if not more judges off the register further bodes ill for SSA dictating timing to OPM. Obviously, your time line may be correct for the reasons you cite or for others unknown. But imaging government bureaucracy as "customer oriented" especially when the customer is another agency . Additionally, there are many other examples here that OPM resents any time that SSA attempts to dictate aspects of the process. You sure make a lot of pronouncements that are nothing more than closing arguments. SSA has already incurred the expense? That is not the way that OPM is reimbursed, SSA does not pay up front, it pays after. SSA may not dictate the actual mechanics and content of the test but since they are footing the bill SSA does have a say in many other aspects. Indeed, SSA has twice asked OPM to open the register since 2007--is that not dictating. Other agencies hire more judges than SSA? Where are you getting this information from? Rumors that HHS may be hiring? We do not even know what the HHS budget is. OPM’s Explanation for the Increase in ALJ Program Costs Between FYs 2005 and 2012, overall OPM charges to SSA for ALJ services have more than tripled, and the charges per ALJ have more than doubled (see Table 1). OPM indicated that ALJ costs have increased as a result of (1) development of the examination opened in 2007;(2) subsequent re- openings of that examination (twice at SSA’s request);(3) development of a new iteration of the ALJ examination instrument;and (4) a 35 percent increase in the ALJ workforce requiring OPM’s routine activities related to administering the ALJ Program Read the report below (above quote comes from page 10) and make your own conclusions at what SSA's relationship is with OPM regarding the ALJ program: oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/audit/full/pdf/A-05-12-22144.pdfYou appear to have limited knowledge on how inter agency funding via the Economy Act, Franchise Act or other fiscal authorities work. There are numerous and I mean numerous agencies in the federal Government that have customer type relationships where one agency depends on another for it to be a financial "sponsor" The last two times HHS has hired they hired approximately 60 judges. HHS has hired every time there has been a new register. Historically that has been the trend. If you add in the fact that HHS will suffer the increased attrition that SSA and other agencies are expected to go through then you are left with the fact that they should need the same 60 or so judges this time around.
IF and I acknowledge it is a big if that SSA hires at the 1/3 ratio as seen last year and then there would have to be substantial attrition for there to be a larger hiring from SSA than HHS. If the rumors that HHS is going to spend its resources on ALJs are true then there is a possibility that HHS hires more than the 60 or so they have in the past. You're right that I don't know all the ins and outs of the process but by your own statements the costs of the process are mostly all expended (developing the exam, opening the register, administering the exam, etc.). I know that the relationship between OPM and SSA has been described as difficult many times. There is no apparent advantage to OPM to delay the process. In fact I don't see any advantage to SSA to delay the process. It may seem like a closing argument but the fact is we are all just sitting here having a dorm room bull session anyway. Other than a negativity I see no basis for the argument that the NORs will be delayed into Spring or even February. I acknowledge I am just speculating here based on past practice but the evidence for such a delay is even more speculative.
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Post by privateatty on Dec 13, 2013 14:00:41 GMT -5
The last time HHS hired that many was in 2005 when OMHA was born. No agency has hired more than a few at at time since then--except SSA. That is not likely to change. I love research. Saves face.
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Post by Gaidin on Dec 13, 2013 14:43:27 GMT -5
Sigh..... I went back to try and figure out what I was remembering that led me to assert that OMHA had a big hire on previous certs. I realized I was remembering something else. that is not good news. However, assuming that OMHA has the same percentage of ALJs walk as SSA is expected to (rumored to be around 200) then OMHA should have about 9 ALJs leave.
I apologize for my faulty memory of what was previously posted.
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Post by zebra51 on Dec 13, 2013 14:48:32 GMT -5
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Post by kansascity on Dec 13, 2013 14:54:06 GMT -5
I was told by a reliable source that for the past year or so OMHA had been hoping to get funding for a new office. One in middle America since all offices are currently on the coasts. Due to the government shutdown and lack of budget there had been no movement on that issue. I have no update on whether the new budget deal will allow for the creation of such an office. Just another rumor to consider.
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Post by privateatty on Dec 13, 2013 15:11:49 GMT -5
Lets say, for example, that Walmart went Union and suddenly NLRB had need for 20 more ALJs. Do you think they'd get the funding from this Congress? Puleeze.
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Post by bartleby on Dec 13, 2013 15:56:14 GMT -5
I don't think Cleveland, Ohio is considered being on the coast, buut may be wrong..
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Post by BagLady on Dec 13, 2013 16:36:37 GMT -5
It's on the north coast, Bart!
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Post by mcb on Dec 13, 2013 16:39:42 GMT -5
I don't think Cleveland, Ohio is considered being on the coast, buut may be wrong.. Cleveland's Lake Erie shares a border with Canada's province Ontario, so some folks refer to Cleveland as the North Coast. www.northcoast24.org/
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Post by kansascity on Dec 13, 2013 17:47:01 GMT -5
I stand corrected. The rumor was for a more centrally located location.
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Post by Gaidin on Dec 13, 2013 22:30:13 GMT -5
This congress wouldn't fund more NLRB positions but that doesn't mean they wouldn't fund more OMHA appeals. The recipients of those disputed funds are hospitals, physicians, and medical supply companies. There are constituents who can't get treatment but there are also big money recipients at play.
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