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Post by downbutnotout on Mar 13, 2014 22:14:44 GMT -5
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 13, 2014 22:21:05 GMT -5
I would appeal, I assume your email has appeal rights. Read that provision of the CFR, and see exactly what it says, and go from there. I'd send in whatever your bar will give you about your status. I am concerned that, if you can't practice in your home state, you aren't "active", if that's what is required.
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Post by BagLady on Mar 13, 2014 22:25:34 GMT -5
Here's the question about licensure; it sounds like an appeal is in order.
2. All ALJ applicants are required to certify that they are duly licensed to practice law as an attorney at the time of filing, under the laws of a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any territorial court established under the United States Constitution. Judicial status is acceptable in lieu of "active" status in States that prohibit sitting Judges from maintaining "active" status to practice law. Being in "good standing" is acceptable in lieu of "active" status in States where the licensing authority considers "good standing" as having a current license to practice law.
Do you meet these licensure requirements?
A. Yes – As described above, I hereby certify that I am duly licensed to practice law at the time of the filing of this application for employment as an ALJ, under the laws of a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any territorial court established under the United States Constitution.
If you answered "Yes" (item 2.A or 2.B), use the text box below to list: a) all jurisdictions in which you are currently licensed to practice law; b) the date(s) of admission to the Bar in each jurisdiction in which you are currently licensed to practice law; (c) the Bar license number in each jurisdiction in which you are currently licensed to practice law; and (d) if you maintain a bar status other than active, please explain your status, and specify the jurisdiction in which you have this status. If a State in which you are licensed to practice law does not issue a Bar license number, you must clearly state this fact in the text box below and still provide the remaining requested information.
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Post by downbutnotout on Mar 13, 2014 22:30:41 GMT -5
I would appeal, I assume your email has appeal rights. Read that provision of the CFR, and see exactly what it says, and go from there. I'd send in whatever your bar will give you about your status. I am concerned that, if you can't practice in your home state, you aren't "active", if that's what is required. My notice told me a follow-on email with appeal procedures will be coming. In my application when I identifed my status, I clarified that ny status is available for members in government practice who are eligible for active membership but do not practice or in anyway hold themselves out as licensed to practice in my home state. I think I will have to contact my bar to obtain a statement from them to that effect... what a downer this is after all this time. |
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Post by downbutnotout on Mar 13, 2014 22:33:22 GMT -5
What is the reply I have learned after my months of lurking? It is time for . . . situational bourbon.
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Post by litig8tor on Mar 13, 2014 22:52:18 GMT -5
As I recall from my earlier career as a District Court litigator for a federal agency, a condition of employment in an attorney position was active membership in some bar somewhere even if not the state of my duty station. For example, I was an active member in Massachusetts even though I worked in Los Angeles. This still seems to be the standard for every attorney position listed on USAJobs. I finally had to take the Calif. bar only because the Central District of California changed its rules to require government attorneys who regularly appeared in that court to be members of the California bar (ocassional interlopers did not have to).
Were you an active member of some bar other than your state duty station bar? Perhaps that would qualify you.
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Post by downbutnotout on Mar 13, 2014 23:15:33 GMT -5
I am considered active, but it's not called "active." It is "special." On the bar dues receipt form, special is characterized as "good standing, governmental position, not in active practice." I have called my bar several times over the years about this and have been assured each time I am allowed to actively practice in Federal service. Just not in my home state.
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leo68
Full Member
Posts: 33
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Post by leo68 on Mar 14, 2014 7:49:38 GMT -5
I received the same notice and plan to appeal. I have been a practicing attorney for over 15 years, having practiced without interruption since being admitted to the bar. My bar will provide verification of the same, but this is my question: assuming my appeal is successful, will it even matter? If the time frame for receiving my NOR is any indication, I might not get the results of an appeal until well after all positions are filled. That would mean waiting for a second cert, which may or may not occur, and even if it does, what are the odds of being selected for a place within my GAL after all the first round folks have received their desired locations? Please pardon my frustration when so many of you are deservedly excited and happy, but I am so disappointed right now I can hardly find the words to express it. I would especially appreciate advice from current ALJs and forum elders. Thanks much and congratulations to all who received positive NORs.
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Post by agilitymom on Mar 14, 2014 8:13:09 GMT -5
leo68-by all means appeal if you really want this job. You've come this far (I assume you finished all portions of the testing) and appealing cannot hurt. Being on the register is a great place to be even if you miss a cert or two. I was on the old register for several years....and here I sit today.  . Getting on the register, or a certificate for that matter, is no guarantee of being hired....but you have absolutely no chance of running with the pack unless you get off the porch! Good luck.
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Post by hopefalj on Mar 14, 2014 8:25:12 GMT -5
I received the same notice and plan to appeal. I have been a practicing attorney for over 15 years, having practiced without interruption since being admitted to the bar. My bar will provide verification of the same, but this is my question: assuming my appeal is successful, will it even matter? If the time frame for receiving my NOR is any indication, I might not get the results of an appeal until well after all positions are filled. That would mean waiting for a second cert, which may or may not occur, and even if it does, what are the odds of being selected for a place within my GAL after all the first round folks have received their desired locations? Please pardon my frustration when so many of you are deservedly excited and happy, but I am so disappointed right now I can hardly find the words to express it. I would especially appreciate advice from current ALJs and forum elders. Thanks much and congratulations to all who received positive NORs. Yes, appeal. This is not a one-shot hire. I will place a bet right now that more judges will be hired from subsequent certs than off this first cert. You've invested the time and the money in this process. What's one more email? |
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leo68
Full Member
Posts: 33
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Post by leo68 on Mar 14, 2014 8:40:39 GMT -5
Thanks Hope and Agility Mom. I have contacted my bar and they are as confused as I am. They have assured me they will do whatever it takes to get this straightened out. Makes me feel much better. Now I just need the appeal instructions...
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Post by Propmaster on Mar 14, 2014 9:41:58 GMT -5
I am considered active, but it's not called "active." It is "special." On the bar dues receipt form, special is characterized as "good standing, governmental position, not in active practice." I have called my bar several times over the years about this and have been assured each time I am allowed to actively practice in Federal service. Just not in my home state. My 2 cents (and I am not trying to discourage an appeal, by the way; never give up), the definition you quoted above says "not in active prctice" and you say you are not allowed to practice in the state courts with that staus: Here's the question about licensure; it sounds like an appeal is in order. 2. All ALJ applicants are required to certify that they are duly licensed to practice law as an attorney at the time of filing, under the laws of a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any territorial court established under the United States Constitution. Judicial status is acceptable in lieu of "active" status in States that prohibit sitting Judges from maintaining "active" status to practice law. Being in "good standing" is acceptable in lieu of "active" status in States where the licensing authority considers "good standing" as having a current license to practice law. Do you meet these licensure requirements? A. Yes – As described above, I hereby certify that I am duly licensed to practice law at the time of the filing of this application for employment as an ALJ, under the laws of a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any territorial court established under the United States Constitution. If you answered "Yes" (item 2.A or 2.B), use the text box below to list: a) all jurisdictions in which you are currently licensed to practice law; b) the date(s) of admission to the Bar in each jurisdiction in which you are currently licensed to practice law; (c) the Bar license number in each jurisdiction in which you are currently licensed to practice law; and (d) if you maintain a bar status other than active, please explain your status, and specify the jurisdiction in which you have this status. If a State in which you are licensed to practice law does not issue a Bar license number, you must clearly state this fact in the text box below and still provide the remaining requested information. If your state says you can actively practice in federal service, but not practice law in the state, in what jurisdiction as decribed in the requirements are you "licensed to practice law?" I worry that your bar was answering from the perspective of not "practicing law without a license" from their perspective, and not affirmatively granting you permission to practice in all state and territorial courts in the United States except your own. |
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Post by Propmaster on Mar 14, 2014 9:46:25 GMT -5
I received the same notice and plan to appeal. I have been a practicing attorney for over 15 years, having practiced without interruption since being admitted to the bar. My bar will provide verification of the same, but this is my question: assuming my appeal is successful, will it even matter? If the time frame for receiving my NOR is any indication, I might not get the results of an appeal until well after all positions are filled. That would mean waiting for a second cert, which may or may not occur, and even if it does, what are the odds of being selected for a place within my GAL after all the first round folks have received their desired locations? Please pardon my frustration when so many of you are deservedly excited and happy, but I am so disappointed right now I can hardly find the words to express it. I would especially appreciate advice from current ALJs and forum elders. Thanks much and congratulations to all who received positive NORs. If I recall correctly, in previous exams there were several people who were not considered to have answered the question correctly because they did not "list: a) all jurisdictions in which you are currently licensed to practice law; b) the date(s) of admission to the Bar in each jurisdiction in which you are currently licensed to practice law..." Some people wrote things along the lines of "I have been admitted to practice for over 10 years," for example, instead of answering the exact question asked by putting their date of admission. Obviously, I am not saying you did this, and I am not asking either. I am just putting out some information that might help clarify why something weird happened if it is applicable in any person's case. |
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 14, 2014 10:45:55 GMT -5
I received the same notice and plan to appeal. I have been a practicing attorney for over 15 years, having practiced without interruption since being admitted to the bar. My bar will provide verification of the same, but this is my question: assuming my appeal is successful, will it even matter? If the time frame for receiving my NOR is any indication, I might not get the results of an appeal until well after all positions are filled. That would mean waiting for a second cert, which may or may not occur, and even if it does, what are the odds of being selected for a place within my GAL after all the first round folks have received their desired locations? Please pardon my frustration when so many of you are deservedly excited and happy, but I am so disappointed right now I can hardly find the words to express it. I would especially appreciate advice from current ALJs and forum elders. Thanks much and congratulations to all who received positive NORs. Agilitymom is right. You can't win if you don't play. You may well miss the first cert, but there WILL be other opportunities. Not all the "first cert" hires will get their "desired locations". Many will NOT, but they will take a position in a city that's not high on their list to get the job, and work their way through transfer to a better location, or decide they like it where they are. You can't be accepted for a place outside your GAL, if a cert has any of your GAL cities, and your score after a successful appeal ends up high enough, you will make the cert. The interview is then the biggest key. Patience is a virtue here, for sure. Lay out your appeal on the bar membership issue, show how you complied with the rules, and wait for the outcome. |
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leo68
Full Member
Posts: 33
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Post by leo68 on Mar 14, 2014 12:39:29 GMT -5
Thanks Observer. I appreciate the encouragement.
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Post by privateatty on Mar 14, 2014 14:03:03 GMT -5
I have a different perspective. The AR is all about giving them the answer to the question. It is not about alternative answers that lawyers may love to give.
If you are not fully liscensed to practice law in one state or DC, IMO, you have a problem. Get that status before you file your appeal or you may be spinning your wheels for a long time.
In the alternative, if you want to play the lawyer game, do so at your own risk.
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Post by chinook on Mar 14, 2014 14:08:18 GMT -5
I tend to agree that the bar status is going to be a problem for some. I go one step further, at this point you might need to prove 7 years at the active status.
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. Getting on the register, or a certificate for that matter, is no guarantee of being hired....but you have absolutely no chance of running with the pack unless you get off the porch! Good luck.
