|
Post by funkyodar on Mar 30, 2014 20:37:04 GMT -5
1. They've always got more than 3 names per slot. some are "filler," some are given to account for people that refuse the interview (it does happen) and some are given to account for the expected hiring or three striking of people that appear in the top 3 of multiple sites. Also, ties do occur.
2. Hiring 2 from 9 choices gives more flexibility than 1 from 4.
3. Given I've now heard the 90 number referenced by DC sklar twice and numerous others, I just can't imagine they will do more than 90 this year.
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on Mar 30, 2014 20:59:29 GMT -5
1. They've always got more than 3 names per slot. some are "filler," some are given to account for people that refuse the interview (it does happen) and some are given to account for the expected hiring or three striking of people that appear in the top 3 of multiple sites. Also, ties do occur. 2. Hiring 2 from 9 choices gives more flexibility than 1 from 4. 3. Given I've now heard the 90 number referenced by DC sklar twice and numerous others, I just can't imagine they will do more than 90 this year. Re: #1... I didn't mean 3 names per slot. If you read the old posts, the size of the overall cert tends to be 3 times the number of available openings. If there are 90 openings, you'll get a cert the size of 270-300, and there is plenty of filler in a cert that size as there are enough desirable people with wide enough GALs to make a cert even three times the number of openings unnecessary. I don't disagree with your other two points, but I don't agree that there will be 350-400 people interviewed for 90 slots. Hopefully we'll find out in the near future.
|
|
|
Post by dpageks on Mar 30, 2014 21:09:52 GMT -5
Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by futuressaalj on Mar 30, 2014 21:47:17 GMT -5
Dpa extremely informative. Difficult for ODAR to pass over a. 30% or higher vet without using another veteran
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Mar 30, 2014 21:55:37 GMT -5
Re: #1... I didn't mean 3 names per slot. If you read the old posts, the size of the overall cert tends to be 3 times the number of available openings. If there are 90 openings, you'll get a cert the size of 270-300, and there is plenty of filler in a cert that size as there are enough desirable people with wide enough GALs to make a cert even three times the number of openings unnecessary. I don't disagree with your other two points, but I don't agree that there will be 350-400 people interviewed for 90 slots. Hopefully we'll find out in the near future.[/quote] Just saying its possible. We've all been working the conundrum of how they solve the issue of giving just three names per individually certed city, without that necessarily including a few high scorers taking up top 3 slots for multiple cities. Under the old process, that wasn't a problem becuase multiple candidates may have made the cert for just one city, but through hiring and striking were ultimately in contention for others on the cert in their gal. In the new process, that presumably can't happen. You can only be considered for the city or cities upon which specific cert you appear. So, rather than risk having a city whose entire top 3 is hired for other places or struck, thus necessitating a whole new cert request for that city, just send over more than is necessary. Perhaps way more than 3. Or 6 if ssa indicates they want to hire more than one per city. Why would ssa want to interview that many for just 90 slots? If they have the funds and the time, why not? Theres rumored to be another big hire next year and maybe the year after. We all get one interview. Why not do all you can now and save the time later when those not picked up or three struck this round appear on next fiscal's certs? Lastly, I definitely think hiring this year will be limited to 90 or close thereto. But,p ssa isn't bound to fill every slot they tell opm they "want" to fill. Whose to say they told opm they wanted enough names for 90 positions? Maybe, in an effort to get around opm's new process and get more names from deeper down the register to maneuver with, they told opm they wanted to fill 120 slots in the rumored 45 cities. That would get them plenty of extra pieces for their chessboard. And again, not like they may not use those extras further down the road. Just some "maybes" to consider. Not saying I buy the 45 cities and 350 to 400 interviews. But it isn't beyond the possible. After all, ssa has to figure some new moves to still play the game they want under opm's new process.
|
|
|
Post by Ace Midnight on Mar 31, 2014 8:01:39 GMT -5
I agree with private. I, and others, have heard thru theinsider grapevine that odar wanted to hire between 150 to 200 but opms delay meant they could do no more than 90 this fiscal leaving the balance for next year. I can confirm - and more than gossip or rumor - that the desire is to hire 90 this year and, direct quote, "...about the same next year." This is definitely true - often cities are filled 2 and 3 at a time - without digging into it, I suspect that 60 to 70 cities account for 90% of the new hires since 2007 - although I could be a little low. Some cities only rarely make an appearance on a new hire cert - and some never make it on there at all.
|
|
|
Post by Ace Midnight on Mar 31, 2014 8:05:47 GMT -5
Dpa extremely informative. Difficult for ODAR to pass over a. 30% or higher vet without using another veteran Ironically, this gives lower scoring Vets somewhat of a perverse advantage - when they run out of veterans to match up with each other - they get less and less discretion to pass over/3-strike a veteran they're not crazy about. On the other hand, they can bring back in veterans they've "3-struck" they like better, rather than taking one they absolutely don't like - but the process and the math favors the vets - of that there is little question. In my office, for example, the majority of male ALJs have always been vets - at one point it was 90% - currently it is 75%.
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on Mar 31, 2014 8:09:44 GMT -5
Dpa extremely informative. Difficult for ODAR to pass over a. 30% or higher vet without using another veteran Ironically, this gives lower scoring Vets somewhat of a perverse advantage - when they run out of veterans to match up with each other - they get less and less discretion to pass over/3-strike a veteran they're not crazy about. On the other hand, they can bring back in veterans they've "3-struck" they like better, rather than taking one they absolutely don't like - but the process and the math favors the vets - of that there is little question. In my office, for example, the majority of male ALJs have always been vets - at one point it was 90% - currently it is 75%. Ace, I don't disagree with your thoughts, even though I am not a vet. I think unless SSA really dislikes a vet the vet is likely to be hired. However, if the vet is really disliked by SSA, it will find a way to go past this individual.
|
|
|
Post by redryder on Mar 31, 2014 8:47:04 GMT -5
I do not understand these comments that the cert for a specific city will have only 9 candidates. It is my understanding that SSA will ask for at least 3 times the number of slots they seek to file. 90 slots means 270 names. Someone will a wide open GAL may appear on every list. Someone with a limited GAL will appear on those limited lists. So each cert would have the potential of 270 names at least.
When the first candidate is offered the first slot, that cert is closed and the candidate's name is stricken from all remaining certificates. Everyone who appears on those remaining certificates then moves up one slot. This winnowing of candidates (by selection for an offer or "3 strikes") continues as vacancies are filled.
And when you think about it, that explains why no one else is offered the job if a candidate refuses the offer. There is no way to assure that the rule of 3 would be followed, except for the very last offer. The only option SSA has is to request a new certificate for the vacancy. Picture candidate with NOR of 80 is offered a job based on 10th certificate that is worked. He refuses. By the time the offer was made, the next available candidate on that cert has a score of 70 because everyone between these two persons was offered other cities. NOR 70 was not in the top three when the selection was made. He cannot be offered the job.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 31, 2014 8:52:05 GMT -5
So each cert would have the potential of 270 names at least. This makes the most sense to me. Every other scenario had too many "ifs" and did not provide SSA with enough candidates to go through all the cities in whatever order they choose, and to have enough people to interview at one time.
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on Mar 31, 2014 9:21:09 GMT -5
So each cert would have the potential of 270 names at least. This makes the most sense to me. Every other scenario had too many "ifs" and did not provide SSA with enough candidates to go through all the cities in whatever order they choose, and to have enough people to interview at one time. If that's the case, then 350-400 interviewees would probably be a low estimate.
|
|
|
Post by Ace Midnight on Mar 31, 2014 9:41:09 GMT -5
I do not understand these comments that the cert for a specific city will have only 9 candidates. It is my understanding that SSA will ask for at least 3 times the number of slots they seek to file. 90 slots means 270 names. Someone will a wide open GAL may appear on every list. Someone with a limited GAL will appear on those limited lists. So each cert would have the potential of 270 names at least. And this speculation is based on various interpretations of this "new" certificate process, based on a leaked email. I agree with you that ODAR will follow - as closely as possible - the way they've done it. The mechanics of it may be somewhat new, but the overall process will be - essentially - the same. Unless I see concrete evidence to the contrary, this is what I expect. This just makes insanely good sense. The whole "draft board" analogy holds, except ODAR is picking for all 32 teams (or all 45, 60, 70 locations, etc.) - trying to get their top picks, based on GAL, scores, VP, and interview results.
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Apr 2, 2014 10:07:09 GMT -5
The discussion has been dominated by speculation on the odar cert (rightfully so, given that's where the vast majority will land). Anybody got any insight on OMHA (or others)? There was some belief medicare would do a small hire, maybe from the reg. Anybody heard anymore about that? Not that I have to worry about that with my score, but it'd be nice to see a few higher scorers get the robe somewhere else and clear the field a bit.
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Apr 2, 2014 12:54:23 GMT -5
In response to the above post, I very trusted source that prefers to remain anonymous sent me a pm. Said I could share the following info regarding OMHA.
The new office is reportedly going to be in Denver. There are a ton of inter and intra agency transfer requests so unlikely to be hiring from the register at this point.
Said the only ones that MIGHT make a cert IF one is even requested would be the top 1 or 2 percenters with Arlington, Cleveland, Irvine or Miami in their gals. Also, may have a shot if bilingual and have Miami listed.
YMMV, but I have all the faith in the world in this person's veracity and access to the info.
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on Apr 2, 2014 12:57:38 GMT -5
In response to the above post, I very trusted source that prefers to remain anonymous sent me a pm. Said I could share the following info regarding OMHA. The new office is reportedly going to be in Denver. There are a ton of inter and intra agency transfer requests so unlikely to be hiring from the register at this point. Said the only ones that MIGHT make a cert IF one is even requested would be the top 1 or 2 percenters with Arlington, Cleveland, Irvine or Miami in their gals. Also, may have a shot if bilingual and have Miami listed. YMMV, but I have all the faith in the world in this person's veracity and access to the info. Nothing like getting reliable information from a reliable source. Thank you funky for passing on this information to the Board.
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on Apr 2, 2014 13:00:26 GMT -5
I was told by an ALJ recently that a solicitation went out to all ALJs for positions in OMHA, including the Miami office. I wonder if a cert will even be necessary.
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Apr 2, 2014 13:03:03 GMT -5
Sounds like its very unlikely. Maybe a small bilingual one for miami, but that probably won't be necessary either.
Looks like we are all shootin for odar folks.
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on Apr 2, 2014 13:07:00 GMT -5
It's probably ODAR or nothing at all for everyone or almost everyone on the Register at this time. I don't mind, but I know it could upset some folks with higher scores who hoped for something else besides ODAR.
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Apr 2, 2014 13:08:31 GMT -5
Sounds like its very unlikely. Maybe a small bilingual one for miami, but that probably won't be necessary either. Looks like we are all shootin for odar folks. Sounds like a ticket out of PR for a few ALJs. This of course will mean that SSA will need more ALJs though..... Also possibly another way to get to Denver once you get an ALJ gig.
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Apr 2, 2014 13:09:26 GMT -5
It's probably ODAR or nothing at all for everyone or almost everyone on the Register at this time. I don't mind, but I know it could upset some folks with higher scores who hoped for something else besides ODAR. If they find it upsetting enough I will direct them to the thread about placing your application on hold.
|
|