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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 18, 2014 17:01:38 GMT -5
I do not think that being DQ'd due a less than minimum score on the WD has much bearing on your ability to write well. Instead, it may be that others simply had an even better response, that something extra. If the population on this board is any indication, there are many high achievers and over achievers, with incredible experience and skill. Believe me, I understand your point, and would agree with the proposition that even if you are a great writer, there will always be someone, or even many people, who wrote a better decision than you. However, it was my understanding that there is a minimum passing score, not that there are a minimum number of people who will pass. If there is a "minimum score" to pass, then it should not matter if your writing was the worst of the bunch, as long as you made that minimum passing score. You're being compared to a standard, not against the other test takers. I think that's where those of us who did not pass are having the issue. If you write for a living, your writing has always been considered excellent, and you felt really good about how you did, it's hard to swallow that you didn't even make a minimum score. I wonder what determined the "minimum" score? And was it a percentage or an actual raw score drawn in he sand before testing? If based upon percentage was it set or on a curve hence comparing those tested to each other? We may never know without litigation. This being the first time there was a "minimum" in place... Uncharted waters. |
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Post by papresqr on Mar 18, 2014 17:12:01 GMT -5
If it's a curve being compared to the other test takers, then I guess I should breeze through it when I reapply and take the test alone! Of course, it would be my luck, I'm taking it at the same time as 1 or 2 others and I may be at the bottom of the pack again.
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Post by beenlurking on Mar 18, 2014 17:30:08 GMT -5
That is a great question. "Was it percentage or raw score?" Boy, if we knew that answer it sure would change the approach.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 18, 2014 17:39:43 GMT -5
That is a great question. "Was it percentage or raw score?" Boy, if we knew that answer it sure would change the approach. I looked back at the original announcement and it only states "required minimum" without definition. Whereas the earlier SJT /EA and writing had different criteria and said "If the score for your performance on the SJT, Writing Sample, and Experience Assessment is not within the range for the higher-scored sub-group of eligible applicants, you will be notified via email that you will no longer be considered for this current ALJ Job Opportunity Announcement." So this leads me to think the first part using "higher scored subgroup" did not have a "set" score but was fluid depending on subgroup. Conversely does that mean there was a raw minimum on the WD and SI? I do not know. |
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Post by papresqr on Mar 18, 2014 17:51:56 GMT -5
That is a great question. "Was it percentage or raw score?" Boy, if we knew that answer it sure would change the approach. I looked back at the original announcement and it only states "required minimum" without definition. Whereas the earlier SJT /EA and writing had different criteria and said "If the score for your performance on the SJT, Writing Sample, and Experience Assessment is not within the range for the higher-scored sub-group of eligible applicants, you will be notified via email that you will no longer be considered for this current ALJ Job Opportunity Announcement." So this leads me to think the first part using "higher scored subgroup" did not have a "set" score but was fluid depending on subgroup. Conversely does that mean there was a raw minimum on the WD and SI? I do not know. I think the difference for the SJT, etc., was that they scored and ranked those, added veteran's points, and then had a certain cutoff score to move on. That's different from the WD and SI, which are pass/fail before any overall scoring/ranking takes place. That's what leads me to believe there is some set pass/fail standard for each of those. Plus, as I mentioned before, what if a 10 pt. vet is taking the test alone? Is that an automatic pass since there's no other testers to compare percentages with? |
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Post by futuressaalj on Mar 18, 2014 18:40:20 GMT -5
Believe me, I am grateful that I have the option. It's just like many others, I have written decisions for ODAR, trial briefs, appellate briefs, etc..for years and I really thought my WD was pretty darn good. For that reason, I almost feel like I want another "set of eyes" laid on it to see if someone dropped the ball the first time. Or, perhaps, to get some kind of feedback. You cannot lose. Go ahead and appeal, after so many years of writing you must feel slighted and hurt--I know I would be--but if you take the emotion out of the equation you would see the logical choice would be to take the test ASAP versus waiting to see if you wrote a passing WD. I do not know how long you have been writing for SSA but the writing of decision is really not the same as what we had to write on the test. FIT takes a lot of the analytical aspect out of the equation and you get channeled into specific writing areas which may not necessarily translate into other areas. If you do change your mind while the appeal is pending then you can just send that e-mail to OPM and ask for the test to be given to you again. |
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Post by beenlurking on Mar 18, 2014 19:16:39 GMT -5
Future, thanks. I'm already leaning that way. Unlike some on this board, I am very familiar with what the position entails, and, from my years of private practice, it is a nice gig in comparison. Well worth giving another full blown shot.
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Post by privateatty on Mar 19, 2014 8:26:49 GMT -5
Future, thanks. I'm already leaning that way. Unlike some on this board, I am very familiar with what the position entails, and, from my years of private practice, it is a nice gig in comparison. Well worth giving another full blown shot. Any ten point vet can re-take the exam. Its a golden opportunity. Have you ever thought about practising what you know; i.e., polishing your skills? |
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Post by beenlurking on Mar 19, 2014 10:28:57 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean there Privateatty.
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Post by privateatty on Mar 19, 2014 11:50:29 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean there Privateatty. Let's assume you get to take it again. Let's assume you really want the job. Let's assume you want to put in the work (based upon your memory) to: Set up sample interview questions and work with your significant other to polish your skills, yet remain genuine. Draft a couple dozen exams and grade them mercilessly. Think it would make a difference? Maybe yes, maybe no, only you can answer the question. |
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Post by beenlurking on Mar 19, 2014 12:28:00 GMT -5
Gotcha.
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Xman
Full Member
Posts: 57 
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Post by Xman on Mar 20, 2014 4:51:14 GMT -5
Can someone explain more of the application process for vets and how it goes? |
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Post by futuressaalj on Mar 20, 2014 5:34:32 GMT -5
Hey gang, my first submit. I am a 10 pointer and made it all the way to DC, but didn't make the cut on WD. I anticipated this delima due to a blah feeling during the exam, inadequate caffeine consumption, and not doing enough prep - something I'll do the next time. I'm ready, but have two questions. First, when has the one year period passed so we can re-apply (I don't plan on appealing, and I think the answer is "today")? Second, do we have to go through the entire process again or do we go directly to DC, and how is that done? Any thoughts from the learned? I've written the mysterious alj admin website, but who knows when they will respond? Congratulations to any of you that made it. Hopefully my second try will be the charm. Thank you. Read the announcement again like you would read the WD instructions. You can apply ASAP as a ten point vet. Also you have to do everything all over again from start to finish. Good luck i am sure you will be much better prepared this time around. |
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Post by Alexandersdad on Mar 20, 2014 7:43:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the input. That's what I thought. Hassle having to go through the whole process again, but at least I get to do it as a 10 pointer. I hope I saved all the initial application work or can download it. May go through an outside service for help. Any recommendations? Thanks again.
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Post by beenlurking on Mar 20, 2014 9:02:11 GMT -5
Alex, I just requested they re-open the other day and I've already received the green light. Just send your request to ALJhelpdesk with copy of Dd-214, SF-15 and proof of disability from VA. Good luck!
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Xman
Full Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Xman on Mar 20, 2014 11:23:49 GMT -5
Thanks. I have all the VA and military docs ready.
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Post by beenlurking on Mar 20, 2014 11:53:21 GMT -5
It's starting from scratch no matter what stage you were disqualified. They will send you a "closed" application and you will have to submit that and your resume. Then it goes from there just like the initial application process.
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Post by privateatty on Mar 21, 2014 6:44:43 GMT -5
Thanks. When you said "request for reopen" did you redo all the initial information that we submitted last year with dates of performance, etc.? I assume we are going to have to do the July online 3 phase exam again to determine if we can do the WD/SI portion in DC. By "green light," did you mean they have cleared you for the 3 phase on-line exam? Do they look at our initial application again to determine if the months make up the 7 years we need? Sorry for all the questions, but I haven't communicated to anyone about the application process. I also may use someone on the outside to strengthen my application. I have all the VA and military docs ready and they were accepted last time. Thanks. You, as a ten-point Veteran, can take the entire exam again. In my case, my last results essentially superseded my first which was good because I raised my score. I suggest you practice sample WDs--but "use[ing] someone on the outside" with respect to your finished application is unethical, probably illegal and if found out may well disqualify you. |
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Post by agilitymom on Mar 21, 2014 7:04:41 GMT -5
Thanks. When you said "request for reopen" did you redo all the initial information that we submitted last year with dates of performance, etc.? I assume we are going to have to do the July online 3 phase exam again to determine if we can do the WD/SI portion in DC. By "green light," did you mean they have cleared you for the 3 phase on-line exam? Do they look at our initial application again to determine if the months make up the 7 years we need? Sorry for all the questions, but I haven't communicated to anyone about the application process. I also may use someone on the outside to strengthen my application. I have all the VA and military docs ready and they were accepted last time. Thanks. You, as a ten-point Veteran, can take the entire exam again. In my case, my last results essentially superseded my first which was good because I raised my score. I suggest you practice sample WDs--but "use[ing] someone on the outside" with respect to your finished application is unethical, probably illegal and if found out may well disqualify you. And it wouldn't really work anyway. Not under this new process. Just carefully read the questions and give OPM exactly what they ask. Remember to take nothing for granted as you do not know the experience level of the person reviewing your application and most folks have no clue what JAGs actually do. |
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Post by minny on Mar 21, 2014 8:17:55 GMT -5
Thanks. When you said "request for reopen" did you redo all the initial information that we submitted last year with dates of performance, etc.? I assume we are going to have to do the July online 3 phase exam again to determine if we can do the WD/SI portion in DC. By "green light," did you mean they have cleared you for the 3 phase on-line exam? Do they look at our initial application again to determine if the months make up the 7 years we need? Sorry for all the questions, but I haven't communicated to anyone about the application process. I also may use someone on the outside to strengthen my application. I have all the VA and military docs ready and they were accepted last time. Thanks. You, as a ten-point Veteran, can take the entire exam again. In my case, my last results essentially superseded my first which was good because I raised my score. I suggest you practice sample WDs--but "use[ing] someone on the outside" with respect to your finished application is unethical, probably illegal and if found out may well disqualify you. I think Alex was referring to a resume consultant and, while I would not spend the money on something like, I do not think there is anything "unethical" or "illegal" about using one. All they do is take information that you provide and help you put it in the most articulate polished format that they think is best. If I used one I would make darn sure that the vendor's focus is federal government jobs. |
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