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Post by funkyodar on Aug 15, 2014 16:59:55 GMT -5
It's a step in the right direction and a good sign. But maybe not as telling as it once was.
A judge in my office got her transfer offer about three weeks after I interviewed. So it's not like all transfers happen just before a cert or a hire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 17:23:23 GMT -5
It's a step in the right direction and a good sign. But maybe not as telling as it once was. A judge in my office got her transfer offer about three weeks after I interviewed. So it's not like all transfers happen just before a cert or a hire. Funky is throwing down with his new pic! Rock on James Brown, rock on!
My wife has been out of town on vacation, but I am catching the movie tomorrow after a long work day closing down this "monster" that I call a private practice.
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Post by orchid on Aug 18, 2014 8:32:59 GMT -5
Hey Scoobies, It's Monday. The first day of school in some parts of the country. Vacations wrapping up. 2 weeks left in August. Here's hoping for some good news this week on the timeline of the second cert!
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Post by HallmarkFan on Aug 18, 2014 11:24:10 GMT -5
Someone tell me if I'm dead in the water for a 2nd cert or if I get another shot.
Scored 78, wide open GAL -- as in, I'd go anywhere. I'm not an insider and have no SSA experience. Since scores lower than mine were hired, either I was deemed "not recommended" at the interview or I was 3-struck and then removed from the list.
Is Cert #2 a do-over, and I'm back on the list for consideration? Am I invited to sit for another interview? Or does everything transfer and ODAR/SSA picks up where they left off?
As always, thanks for the insight. I do appreciate this forum. (And if this question was already posted, and I missed the answer, my apologies.)
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Post by westernalj on Aug 18, 2014 11:29:47 GMT -5
I hesitate to opine as to whether you definitely were 3-struck, but I'll respond to a few points. Cert 2 is not a do-over; no one gets a second SSA interview. One SSA interview per register. If you were 3-struck, it probably was because of a not recommend interview or your references. If you were 3 struck, SSA can choose to tell OPM not to submit your name again. But SSA doesn't have to. They could pass you over for preferred candidates on the first cert, but choose to consider you again.
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Post by hopefalj on Aug 18, 2014 11:30:18 GMT -5
Coffee, we won't know until the second cert comes out. We wint know if you were not recommended at all, but if you were three struck with a wife open GAL, you'll know it when scores lower than 78 report they're on the second cert for cities you've listed (assuming you don't get that second cert email).
Or you'll be on the second cert and eligible for hire. If that's the case, which is at least equally as likely right now, then you won't get a second interview. You'll just be considered on the basis of your June 2014 interview.
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Post by gary on Aug 18, 2014 11:39:51 GMT -5
Coffee, based on what you have said and the scores reported in our poll, it seems likely you were in the top-3 for 3 positions and not hired. From then on, if SSA liked somebody 1, 2, or 3 scores below you, they could choose not to consider you.
It doesn't necessarily mean you received a "not recommended"--only that there were others they preferred to hire at this time.
Going forward, SSA has the option of asking OPM not to include you on future certs. Or SSA may continue to have you on certs and could hire you down the line if they chose. It is in their discretion.
You will know SSA has asked OPM not to include you when there's another cert you are not on but someone with a lower score than yours is.
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Post by HallmarkFan on Aug 18, 2014 12:44:11 GMT -5
Great answers, everyone. Thanks.
Thinking I'll pick up a MegaMillions ticket on my way home. At least tonight, at a time certain, I will know whether my life has changed or not!
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Post by gary on Aug 18, 2014 13:29:35 GMT -5
It seems to me that the "do not recommend" pool would make up the majority, if not all, of those that get three struck. Does anyone know if this is actually the case? If it isn't, would SSA use that tool this early just to get more names or dig down deeper into the register? Hate to go all Bill Clinton on you, but what do you mean by three struck? Do you mean only those SSA asks OPM not to include on certs? Or do you mean anybody who has accumulated three strikes, including those who continue to be on certs?
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Post by hopefalj on Aug 18, 2014 13:45:57 GMT -5
It seems to me that the "do not recommend" pool would make up the majority, if not all, of those that get three struck. Does anyone know if this is actually the case? If it isn't, would SSA use that tool this early just to get more names or dig down deeper into the register? Hate to go all Bill Clinton on you, but what do you mean by three struck? Do you mean only those SSA asks OPM not to include on certs? Or do you mean anybody who has accumulated three strikes, including those who continue to be on certs? While a person can have three strikes and still be considered, I believe the term three struck generally refers to someone who is no longer being considered for a position after acquiring three strikes, whether removed from future certs or no longer being considered on current certs. To answer BC's questions, no, not recommends will not necessarily make up all or most of those three struck. More often, they will be the result if collateral damage in reaching someone SSA really wants.
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Post by gary on Aug 18, 2014 13:54:53 GMT -5
Keep in mind that as long as someone who has three strikes is on a cert, SSA's decision whether or not to consider him/her is on a position-by-position basis. They can decide not to consider you for one position allowing them to reach deeper into the scores to get someone they want and turn around and hire you for another position on the same set of certs--or even for the same location.
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Post by hopefalj on Aug 18, 2014 13:59:46 GMT -5
To answer BC's questions, no, not recommends will not necessarily make up all or most of those three struck. More often, they will be the result if collateral damage in reaching someone SSA really wants. That's what I'm getting at. Are SSA and OPM ok with that much collateral damage? If SSA is really intent in insiders, there could be a lot of it. SSA is fine with it. OPM is probably indifferent more than displeased, although I imagine they would prefer SSA not do it as much. Not much they can do about it since it is perfectly legal. In the past, there has been a lot of collateral damage. We'll see how it goes on this register as more certs come out.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Aug 18, 2014 14:01:39 GMT -5
It seems to me that the "do not recommend" pool would make up the majority, if not all, of those that get three struck. Does anyone know if this is actually the case? If it isn't, would SSA use that tool this early just to get more names or dig down deeper into the register? Hate to go all Bill Clinton on you, but what do you mean by three struck? Do you mean only those SSA asks OPM not to include on certs? Or do you mean anybody who has accumulated three strikes, including those who continue to be on certs? This is from Observer53 in another thread: You will still get on the cert with a "not recommended" interview, so long as you were not "three struck" during the selection process after the onterviews. Only those who have been "three struck" ( see other threads for that discussion) have been left off recent certs by OPM at ODAR's request.Thus, I believe that "not recommended" means your interview was so bad you will likely not get an offer. However, I've seen nothing that says that a NR can never receive an offer because of that status. "Three struck" means you were given bona fide consideration three times for a position, and each time someone else got the offer. This could happen to you even if you were "highly recommended." And if this happens, then either (1) ODAR will ignore your 3S status and consider you again, or (2) ODAR will use your 3S status to ask OPM not to send them your name again, and you are done. To answer your question, I don't think there's any way we can divine the interplay of NR status with 3S, or even guess at what number correlation there may be between those two. From what I've gleaned from this board, however, ODAR will use the 3S status to rid themselves of someone with a high score who they know they don't want, and will ignore 3S status to get someone they do want.
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Post by Gaidin on Aug 18, 2014 14:10:11 GMT -5
I come back to the idea that ODAR's interest in insiders may be real but that they probably take a long view on the question. While this process is very immediate for all of us and getting or not getting the job will have a major impact on us it doesn't look the same way from the other side of the desk.
If they get more insiders over the next 3 - 5 years that is all part of their plan but with a register with a relative scarcity of insiders (compared to past registers) they can't afford to burn through everybody just to get to the insiders when they will have the opportunity to get them in coming years.
It appears to me that they worked the cert lists to get who they wanted. However, it would be mostly baseless speculation to decide whether or not an individual candidate has been 3 struck this early in the cert process. The greater concern for any of us is whether we get a "do not recommend" at which point it doesn't matter whether you ever get valid consideration or not.
While I love playing with the data and speculating as much as the next wannabe and probably more than many this is one area where I believe even speculation is actually counter productive until more data is available. For now I would assume I was still in the hunt and act accordingly.
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Post by gary on Aug 18, 2014 14:10:56 GMT -5
Sandi's on the money.
Look at it this way: Highly Recommended/Recommended/Not Recommended are classifications internal to SSA hirers and have no legal significance in the hiring process.
They do have very great practical significance in that they guide SSA in making its hiring and three-striking decisions.
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witty
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i tawt i taw a puddy tat (Livingston/Foster/May/ made famous by Tweety B.)
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Post by witty on Aug 18, 2014 14:59:40 GMT -5
To answer BC's questions, no, not recommends will not necessarily make up all or most of those three struck. More often, they will be the result if collateral damage in reaching someone SSA really wants. That's what I'm getting at. Are SSA and OPM ok with that much collateral damage? If SSA is really intent in insiders, there could be a lot of it. I continue to see comments that lead me to infer that being an insider is golden. Is being an insider necessarily a shoe-in? Can/does an insider ever get the boot regarding being chosen to be an ALJ? Also, how does SSA know, or does SSA know where the desirable insiders are on a register (not a cert yet) so that SSA knows it needs to do its legal machinations to get to a desirable insider who is on the register, but not yet a cert? I understand from this Discussion Board that if a desirable insider is on a cert, then that insider will get interviewed and then the games begin regarding what other certified eligibles are going to be moved out of the way to get to that desirable insider (nugget of gold). However, if a desirable insider is on the register, but not on a cert (yet), does, and how does SSA know about that desirable insider and know how far SSA will have to dig to get to that person?
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Post by redryder on Aug 18, 2014 15:17:22 GMT -5
Already working for ODAR can be a blessing or a curse. It is not a golden ticket. If the applicant is a writer, the agency can see how productive that person is by looking at the decision writer reports. If the monthly ratio of decisions to work hours is less than 100%, it tells ODAR that this writer takes longer than the time allowed to do the job. Why would that person be a viable ALJ candidate despite his assertions in the interview that he can dispose of 500 cases and leap tall buidings in a single bound? For every ODAR/SSA employee, there is that additional hurdle of what the management in his office thinks about his performance. This is above and beyond references. The immediate supervisor and possibly the hearing office director or chief judge may be asked what they think about this candidate. If the supervisor is getting complaints about the person on any issue, again is this person a viable ALJ candidate? And what about time and attendance? Or the contents of his personnel folder vis-a-vis any disciplinary action? For an insider, there are lots of avenues of information that are fair game that either do not exist for outsiders or are not accessible. So insider status is more a sword of Damocles than a golden fleece. A clean record and a good reputation with that insider information makes an attractive candidate who does not need that additional time to learn the SSA disability policies. But not all insiders have that package.
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Post by 71stretch on Aug 18, 2014 16:42:32 GMT -5
Although everything has to be prefaced with a "things may be different under the new process", in the past, three struck folks stayed on the certs until later, when ODAR asked OPM to leave them all off.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 17:31:53 GMT -5
Someone tell me if I'm dead in the water for a 2nd cert or if I get another shot. Scored 78, wide open GAL -- as in, I'd go anywhere. I'm not an insider and have no SSA experience. Since scores lower than mine were hired, either I was deemed "not recommended" at the interview or I was 3-struck and then removed from the list. Is Cert #2 a do-over, and I'm back on the list for consideration? Am I invited to sit for another interview? Or does everything transfer and ODAR/SSA picks up where they left off? As always, thanks for the insight. I do appreciate this forum. (And if this question was already posted, and I missed the answer, my apologies.) Coffee, IMHO, here's my take on it. You didn't say how many cities of yours made the Cert, but you could of easily got a "recommended" and a "10 pointer" ahead of you got the call. Funky knows more about this process than I, but this first Cert was top heavy with 10/5 point vets and SSA showed no problem whatsoever with hiring "outsiders"/vets this go around.
I was a "10 pointer & 30% war vet" with a NOR above 80, so there was a lot of us that got the call.
Hang in there, you could be in great shape this round. I wish you the best of luck.
tiger
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Post by sealaw90 on Sept 28, 2014 10:28:57 GMT -5
Is this our week Scobies? Is the transfer list almost finished being worked? Is the new FY going to be accompanied by the sound of our inbox getting email? I am not good at predictions, but I am thinking we are going to hear/see movement by the end of the week.
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