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Post by crab on Jul 1, 2014 11:03:53 GMT -5
NP, from what I've gathered on here (try a search on pay or salary and you'll likely pull up some old threads) unless you were deep into a GS-14 or above, you will not start higher than the bottom of the pay scale based on your prior federal service. You will, however, receive credit for that time for purposes of leave (and possibly retirement), which could be a big bonus since you don't accrue much leave during the first three years of federal service.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Jul 1, 2014 12:57:42 GMT -5
NP, from what I've gathered on here (try a search on pay or salary and you'll likely pull up some old threads) unless you were deep into a GS-14 or above, you will not start higher than the bottom of the pay scale based on your prior federal service. You will, however, receive credit for that time for purposes of leave (and possibly retirement), which could be a big bonus since you don't accrue much leave during the first three years of federal service. I'm not an HR person, but I think you would have to be in the "guaranteed 2 steps" rule area for this to kick in, and that would imply a current employee either maxed out at GS-13(maybe) or a highly stepped GS-14 or greater. The way that rule goes, generally - you take your current grade and advance 2 steps - you then find your new position and advance steps until you are making at least as much as the 2 steps would give you. There are other, more Byzantine rules for changes in classifications and geographic areas, but I at least covered the basic rule. Now, the good news is you max out ALJ in 7 years, unless you become a HOCALJ within that time frame - which is nice.
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Post by jd on Jul 1, 2014 13:43:41 GMT -5
If you look at 5 CFR 930.205, that might also answer the question. JD
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Post by westernalj on Jul 1, 2014 14:06:25 GMT -5
I also believe it is the basic pay for the grade and step. In other words, you can't include locality pay. That makes it much more difficult to have your prior pay be above the minimum ALJ salary.
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Post by privateatty on Jul 1, 2014 15:15:49 GMT -5
And a word to the vets: do not fail to buy your prior service (assuming it was of relatively short duration). I added three years towards retirement for less than four figures! Yes, I am old(er)...
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Post by crab on Jul 1, 2014 15:47:52 GMT -5
And a word to the vets: do not fail to buy your prior service (assuming it was of relatively short duration). I added three years towards retirement for less than four figures! Yes, I am old(er)... And to put that in perspective, that's adding at least 3% of your high-three salary per year after retirement - i.e., at today's current top ALJ salary, a flat fee of less than $1,000 bought PA an extra $5,000+ per year in retirement benefits if my math is correct. If you can exercise that option, do yourself a favor and do it. It's well worth the paperwork.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Jul 1, 2014 15:52:25 GMT -5
I'm buying about 4 1/2 years for $6,300.
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Post by agilitymom on Jul 1, 2014 15:54:36 GMT -5
And a word to the vets: do not fail to buy your prior service (assuming it was of relatively short duration). I added three years towards retirement for less than four figures! Yes, I am old(er)... Doesn't work so well if you retired in a grade above Major. But if you didn't retire, definitely buy in!
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Post by Ace Midnight on Jul 1, 2014 17:44:48 GMT -5
Doesn't affect reserve retirement, agilitymom.
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Post by jd on Jul 2, 2014 6:31:44 GMT -5
I am cutting and pasting from OPM's fact sheet because I think this is very important for federal employees who may be offered jobs. I believe that basic pay includes locality pay when pay setting occurs. From OPM's fact sheet section.
Basic Pay A locality rate is basic pay for the purpose of computing the following, as applicable:
•Retirement deductions and benefits •Life insurance premiums and benefits •Premium pay and premium pay limitations •Severance pay •Advances in pay •Lump-sum payments for accrued and accumulated annual leave •Post differentials under 5 U.S.C. 5925(a) and danger pay allowances under 5 U.S.C. 5928 for an employee temporarily working in a foreign area when the employee's official worksite is located in a locality pay area •Post differentials under 5 U.S.C. 5941 and 5 CFR part 591, subpart B, for an employee temporarily working in a nonforeign area when the employee's official worksite is located in a locality pay area”--with “Nonforeign area cost-of-living allowances and post differentials under 5 U.S.C. 5941 and 5 CFR part 591, subpart B •Recruitment, relocation, and retention incentives, supervisory differentials, and extended assignment incentives •Performance-based cash awards when such awards are computed as a percentage of an employee's rate of basic pay •GS pay administration provisions (e.g., promotions) to the extent provided in 5 CFR part 531, subpart B •Pay administration provisions for prevailing rate employees which consider rates of basic pay under the GS pay system in setting pay (except as otherwise provided in 5 CFR part 532), subject to the requirement that, if the employee's actual locality rate would not apply at the official worksite for the prevailing rate position, that locality rate must be converted to a corresponding rate on the locality rate schedule for that official worksite; and •Grade and pay retention to the extent provided in 5 CFR part 536 A locality rate is basic pay for other provisions as specified in other statutes or OPM regulations, and payments or benefits equivalent to those listed above under other legal authorities, as determined by the head of the agency or other authorized official responsible for administering such payments or benefits. (See 5 U.S.C. 5304(c)(2) and 5 CFR 531.610.)
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Post by agilitymom on Jul 2, 2014 6:44:38 GMT -5
From the OPM website:
Setting Pay for a Newly-Appointed ALJ
An ALJ who is appointed and placed in level AL-3 must be paid at the minimum rate A, unless the ALJ is eligible for a higher rate because of prior service or superior qualifications.
•An agency may offer an ALJ applicant with prior Federal service a rate higher than the minimum rate, up to the lowest rate of basic pay that equals or exceeds the applicant's highest previous Federal rate of basic pay, not to exceed the maximum rate F.
•With prior OPM approval, an agency may offer an ALJ applicant with superior qualifications who is within reach for appointment from the ALJ certificate of eligibles, the rate of pay that is next above the applicant's existing pay or earnings, not to exceed the maximum rate F.
•With prior OPM approval, an agency may offer a higher than minimum rate to a former ALJ with superior qualifications who is eligible for reinstatement.
Administrative law judge positions placed at AL-2 or AL-1 are paid at the established rates for those levels.
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Post by jd on Jul 2, 2014 6:56:36 GMT -5
And under 5 CFR 531.203, basic rate of pay is defined to include a locality rate.
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Post by redryder on Jul 2, 2014 7:57:46 GMT -5
The only people that I know who started at higher than the basic rate were federal employees who were grade 15 and already earning more than the entry ALJ pay. They were placed at the step closest to but not lower than their existing pay. (This is consistent with what AgilityMom reported above.)
As for locality pay, I am not so sure that OPM considers that for ALJ candidates. There are stories of ALJs who came from government service in areas with high locality pay like the DC area who actually received less pay because their ALJ position was in an area with a lower locality scale. In those instances, it appears the basis for comparison was basic pay in existing job to basic pay for ALJ slot. What you can count on is making the entry level pay, should you receive an appointment.
Although there are provisions of offering higher than the entry wage to non-federal candidates, I have never heard of anyone getting this. Given the number of people seeking the job, what incentive does an agency have to do that? This is a buyer's market. You take what they offer. There's no negotiation.
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Post by cubbietax on Jul 2, 2014 8:08:48 GMT -5
I am a 14 step 8. I currenly make $700 more than the AL-3 in my locality. As such, I believe and have been told by people at my curent agency that under federal rules I will be entitled to AL-2 to start.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Jul 2, 2014 8:12:06 GMT -5
And going from Step 1 to Step 10 in a single grade, barring other factors, takes 18 years on the General Schedule. Again, in the ALJ system, this only takes 7 years to go from Rate A to Rate F.
ETA: Cubbie - you mean AL-3B.
AL-2 is RCALJ at ODAR.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jul 2, 2014 8:33:54 GMT -5
It would help if the offers came first and then you had to worry about the pay. If it is possibly an issue for you, please don't be afraid to ask about that issue when the offer is made to you. Once you accept the offer, you will be determined to accept what SSA offers you. The question you need to determine is are you taking the position for just the starting pay or for all the other aspects to it. Also, remember as ace said it will only take you seven years to reach the top scale, so if you end up with a thousand or two less the first year, you will easily make it up in the subsequent years. But, by all means, if it is a real issue for you, do not be afraid to ask the question regarding pay when the offer is made.
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Post by cubbietax on Jul 2, 2014 8:37:00 GMT -5
And going from Step 1 to Step 10 in a single grade, barring other factors, takes 18 years on the General Schedule. Again, in the ALJ system, this only takes 7 years to go from Rate A to Rate F. ETA: Cubbie - you mean AL-3B. AL-2 is RCALJ at ODAR. You are right. Hopefully, I will have to learn the ALJ pay scale.
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Post by jd on Jul 2, 2014 8:44:55 GMT -5
Actually, if "base" pay did not include locality, then the difference for current federal employees could be closer to $25,000-30,000 for some people. That would really be something to consider. That's the only reason I started posting about locality pay.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jul 2, 2014 8:54:26 GMT -5
Actually, if "base" pay did not include locality, then the difference for current federal employees could be closer to $25,000-30,000 for some people. That would really be something to consider. That's the only reason I started posting about locality pay. Then, if you are given an offer jd bring up the pay issue prior to acceptance of the offer. It's hard to negotiate pay after accepting an offer.
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Post by ragnar on Jul 2, 2014 9:03:59 GMT -5
I was under the impression that when you transferred agencies - as long as you didn't accept a downgrade they would pay you at your current level. Consequently, it is my understanding that SSA will bring those of us who are current government employees at the AL level that is above our current pay (not including locality adjustment).
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