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Post by anotherfed on Dec 5, 2014 11:47:08 GMT -5
I think my biggest fear for two years has just come to fruition. I have exactly one job on my work history. Been here decades. Love the work. Boss is elderly, won't be around for ever, but she relies on me for a lot, both personally and professionally. I could not think of a valid way to say that she could not be contacted. She was not listed as a reference, but as my supervisor, which she is. She is in a job where no one even dares suggest she could be wrong on any subject. I think, but don't know for sure, that she may have just ended my journey. She called me after she spoke to the interviewer. She set the interviewer straight that no one could handle multiple hundreds of cases. She then told me what a bad job the ALJ gig is, and how devastating it would be to my family and children to move, amongst other gems. I thought it was a coin-flip saying that she could be contacted, and I guess the wrong side of the coin turned up. All speculation on my part, but it doesn't feel good. I wish the decision makers were making the reference calls. I'm not sure my bosses agenda will come through on a checklist. But I knew the process going in, knew that contractors make the calls, and knew it was a risk. Just venting. I had nine wonderful, properly prepped references. I hope they can carry the day, but the board seems to suggest that one bad ref can deep-six the application. I guess I'll find out. Or maybe it doesn't matter because I would not have been hired anyway. It sounds like she trashed the job, not you. Don't give up hope. As I have posted before, I think the reference checkers are looking for obvious disqualifiers -- remember, these are contractors who don't know the job and are following a script and looking for buzzwords. Did your supervisor tell the interviewer that you regularly show up drunk at work? That you falsify your timesheets? That you take bribes? If not, she probably didn't hurt you as much as you fear. Plus, a negative or neutral reference will be weighed against the other references. I don't have any inside information, just trying to think like a prospective employer. Keep your chin up!
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Post by lizdarcy on Dec 5, 2014 12:06:20 GMT -5
Thankful -- If your boss didn't trash you personally, it's unlikely to make much difference. If she did, there may be a problem, but it's only one out of 10. It's all grist for the mill that will be sorted out by the hiring committee, who I assume have been around the block a few times. I wish you the best.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Dec 5, 2014 12:10:07 GMT -5
Thankful1 if you supervisor said good things about you and like anotherfed said, just trashed the job, you may still be ok. Hard to say. I contacted every past employer as well as references since they call them all and I didn't want anyone to be unprepared. Sounds like even if you did that with this one it may not have helped! Not much you can do now. You have many more good references so think positive!
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Post by funkyodar on Dec 5, 2014 12:31:28 GMT -5
No reason to worry when it is out of your hands. What will be, will be.
Now, with that said....I have been told what the contractor sends SSA is a list of greenlighted (no bad refs) and a list of red lighted (1 or more bad refs with a summary of what was said bad). So, maybe you are on the red list but the summary might save you.
Also, I tend to think SSA puts waaaayyyyyy more stock in the opinion of the interviewers. Think about it, they choose only managment ALJs to be on the interview panels. Those are people they initially trusted when they hired them and have been so pleased with them that they then promoted them to management. If you had a good interview and a panel of those types said they reccommend you, you think one crotchety old, hates everything and everyone reference is gonna supercede that? I highly doubt it.
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Post by thankful1 on Dec 5, 2014 13:52:47 GMT -5
No reason to worry when it is out of your hands. What will be, will be. Now, with that said....I have been told what the contractor sends SSA is a list of greenlighted (no bad refs) and a list of red lighted (1 or more bad refs with a summary of what was said bad). So, maybe you are on the red list but the summary might save you. Also, I tend to think SSA puts waaaayyyyyy more stock in the opinion of the interviewers. Think about it, they choose only managment ALJs to be on the interview panels. Those are people they initially trusted when they hired them and have been so pleased with them that they then promoted them to management. If you had a good interview and a panel of those types said they reccommend you, you think one crotchety old, hates everything and everyone reference is gonna supercede that? I highly doubt it. Appreciate the insight Funky and others. I'm pretty underwhelming in an interview situation, so in all likelihood that will be my undoing, but now I have a ready-made excuse I can invoke if this doesn't come through. My boss is closer to 90 than she is to 80, but is appointed for life. I think she was feeling guilty today, so she called some colleagues into her office, with me there, and put them on the spot by making them promise they would keep me on if she were ever gone. What could they say in that situation. Nevermind the fact that they don't have the ability to carry through on such a promise, even if they wanted to, or the fact that they are older too or the fact that maybe I would prefer a different route. Apologize for the continued venting. I just need to release it. I agree 100% that whatever will be will be
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 13:55:32 GMT -5
Sorry for my ignorance here, but exactly how many references are requested and from what sources? I'd like to be prepared in advance with contact info.
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Post by Missundaztood on Dec 5, 2014 14:03:48 GMT -5
Sorry for my ignorance here, but exactly how many references are requested and from what sources? I'd like to be prepared in advance with contact info. The quick answer is supervisors for 15 years, 3 references, 3 judges, 3 adversaries. No duplicating. There is a lot of info on the board with more specifics.
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Post by mamaru on Dec 5, 2014 14:07:10 GMT -5
Sorry for my ignorance here, but exactly how many references are requested and from what sources? I'd like to be prepared in advance with contact info. The quick answer is supervisors for 15 years, 3 references, 3 judges, 3 adversaries. No duplicating. There is a lot of info on the board with more specifics. jinx
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Post by Missundaztood on Dec 5, 2014 14:08:30 GMT -5
The quick answer is supervisors for 15 years, 3 references, 3 judges, 3 adversaries. No duplicating. There is a lot of info on the board with more specifics. jinx I owe you a coke. Hope to pay up in FC.
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Post by Missundaztood on Dec 5, 2014 14:09:56 GMT -5
No reason to worry when it is out of your hands. What will be, will be. Now, with that said....I have been told what the contractor sends SSA is a list of greenlighted (no bad refs) and a list of red lighted (1 or more bad refs with a summary of what was said bad). So, maybe you are on the red list but the summary might save you. Also, I tend to think SSA puts waaaayyyyyy more stock in the opinion of the interviewers. Think about it, they choose only managment ALJs to be on the interview panels. Those are people they initially trusted when they hired them and have been so pleased with them that they then promoted them to management. If you had a good interview and a panel of those types said they reccommend you, you think one crotchety old, hates everything and everyone reference is gonna supercede that? I highly doubt it. Appreciate the insight Funky and others. I'm pretty underwhelming in an interview situation, so in all likelihood that will be my undoing, but now I have a ready-made excuse I can invoke if this doesn't come through. My boss is closer to 90 than she is to 80, but is appointed for life. I think she was feeling guilty today, so she called some colleagues into her office, with me there, and put them on the spot by making them promise they would keep me on if she were ever gone. What could they say in that situation. Nevermind the fact that they don't have the ability to carry through on such a promise, even if they wanted to, or the fact that they are older too or the fact that maybe I would prefer a different route. Apologize for the continued venting. I just need to release it. I agree 100% that whatever will be will be Thankful, I think those of us who have clerked understand fully well. Hang in there!
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Post by dudeabides on Dec 5, 2014 14:22:46 GMT -5
Thankful - 1: Your boss sounds like a crotchity old jerk. Bummer! But, as others have said, you still have a shot. [And, whatever else, get OUT of your current situation as fast as you can.] Keep on truckin!
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Post by Who Me? on Dec 5, 2014 18:15:08 GMT -5
thankful:
Sorry to hear of your situation. Apparently, your boss is not a leader, but just a manager/supervisor. Leaders mentor their subordinates; don't stand in the way when a subordinate wants to move up; and even encourage the subordinate to strive for better jobs or advancement.
Leaders are concerned about their team members and how working together the goals and objectives can be accomplished. Leaders motivate by example. Leaders get respect and loyalty by earning it; not demanding it. Leaders share accomplishments and give credit to the team members for a job well done. Leaders inspire greatness. Unfortunately, leaders are in short supply.
So goes the dilemma. Check the "do not contact" this employer and perhaps raise questions about your performance. Let the interviewers contact the employer and take your chances that you have a leader and not a manager/supervisor.
Feel your pain. But, if she is the only negative response, they might weigh that negative against all of the other positives.
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Post by mamaru on Dec 6, 2014 16:02:11 GMT -5
They are busy, busy today. Phones here in the office ringing off the hook with reference checks.
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Post by 71stretch on Dec 6, 2014 16:06:26 GMT -5
They are busy, busy today. Phones here in the office ringing off the hook with reference checks. I'll bet they only reach maybe half the people they call, on a weekend. Most of the numbers I gave them were office numbers.
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Post by mamaru on Dec 6, 2014 16:14:33 GMT -5
Lucky everyone is working OT here!
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Post by JudgeRatty on Dec 6, 2014 18:45:16 GMT -5
Lucky everyone is working OT here! Yep, today was a big OT day.
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ksf
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Post by ksf on Dec 6, 2014 21:01:06 GMT -5
When one of the judges before whom I regularly appear was called, she had the same problem. Rather than answering the questions, however, she told them what questions they should be asking, and proceeded to answer them. I suspect the interviewer was rather taken aback. I've always wondered how this was reported.
Moreover, no references were impressed with the perspicacity of the interviewers.
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Post by Frogslily on Dec 6, 2014 22:16:04 GMT -5
I couldn't list my current supervisor, who is the judge I've worked for for 15 years, who I love like family and haven't told about this quixotic quest. I figure there's no point in making her uneasy; if by some miracle I get hired (very small number of cities, decent score but not 80s, good references, nailed the interview), I'll tell her then. This is the most Byzantine process imaginable and this forum has been amazingly supportive and helpful even for a lurker!
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Post by lizdarcy on Dec 6, 2014 22:47:40 GMT -5
Bob, that made me laugh, but only kind of. Not all of my jobs in the past 15 years have been in the legal profession although I've practiced law throughout the whole time, too. I am imagining two of my supervisors answering questions about my work as a lawyer when I worked for them in a different capacity. No wonder I haven't heard from them!
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Post by 71stretch on Dec 7, 2014 5:58:42 GMT -5
Just had a call from a former supervisor who was called by the contractors. He was a little taken aback and not sure whether he had answered the questions appropriately. My situation is unusual in that I quit practicing law for several years and worked in a different industry doing non-legal work. Nonetheless, the former supervisor was asked exactly the same questions as my professional references (legal expertise, knowledge of the law, ability to manage cases, etc.) despite the fact that he is not a lawyer and has never dealt with me in a legal capacity. I assumed that former supervisors would be asked to verify employment, not given the full battery of reference questions. Otherwise, I would have prepared him differently. Every person listed on my personal history form has been called. Everyone has been asked exactly the same questions. True assembly-line reference checking. Oh, we could have told you they ask the supvs the exact same questions, using the same script.
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