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Post by valkyrie on Jan 29, 2016 14:40:33 GMT -5
Hearing offices differ, but some do not allow observers, such as wannabe ALJs. As lawyers we would expect that a waiver on the part of the claimant would be sufficient, but the Agency can be zealous in protection of PII. Many decision writers with years of experience have never been afforded the opportunity to observe a hearing under the theory that, until you are assigned to write a case, the writer should not have access to PII. Of course those same decision writers have complete access to the PII in every case in their office pipeline. Its called CPMS.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 29, 2016 21:44:34 GMT -5
If someone wants to observe a hearing they merely need the ok from the claimant. If I have the claimant's ok, what is the issue? Not a problem for me. I had a new attorney wanting to sit in and had no issue as long as the claimant said ok. Privacy issues can be waived for this if the claimant agrees. I can't think of a better way to learn what we do than to observe a real hearing.
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Post by mamaru on Jan 30, 2016 14:22:27 GMT -5
Hearing offices differ, but some do not allow observers, such as wannabe ALJs. As lawyers we would expect that a waiver on the part of the claimant would be sufficient, but the Agency can be zealous in protection of PII. Many decision writers with years of experience have never been afforded the opportunity to observe a hearing under the theory that, until you are assigned to write a case, the writer should not have access to PII. Of course those same decision writers have complete access to the PII in every case in their office pipeline. Its called CPMS. I didn't say it was logical. I just said that is the rationale provided. I personally agree that the claimant's waiver should be sufficient.
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Post by phoenixrakkasan on Jan 30, 2016 14:44:57 GMT -5
If there are no appeal rights, the ALJ wins. Luck of the draw, my friend.
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Post by Propmaster on Feb 1, 2016 17:38:51 GMT -5
The greatest class I ever took for doing SSA work (as someone with no medical background) was a community college class called Medical Terminology for Medical Assistants, or something like that. The textbook was a body-system-by-body-system guide to the terminology used in medical records and procedures, including important tests, abnormalities, and best of all: all of the vocabulary broken down into the primarily Greek roots. For example, "itis" means inflammation, and "arthr(o)-" means joint, so "arthritis" means inflamed joints. "Hepa-" means liver, so "hepatitis" means inflamed (swollen, enlarged) liver. The ability to break these kinds of words down makes speaking the language of medicine so much easier. I do not have the book anymore, or I would recommend it (I had a replacement book that was not as good), but you should be able to find something similar online or at a local medical assistant school bookstore. It helps if you like to learn things, especially language. Even with the Internet and medical resources from SSA, the ability to understand why the terms being used are being used is remarkably comforting and helpful. In my opinion. Which is not humble, FYI.
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Post by Administrator ALJ on Feb 1, 2016 18:44:22 GMT -5
I am a complete outsider with no background whatever in Social Security law or practice. (Admin law sí, Social Security no.) Do any of you insiders have a recommendation (something along the lines of Gilbert's or a Nutshell) to give me an overview of the law before attending training in April? At nearly $400, Social Security Disability Practice is probably overkill. I'd like to get a big-picture overview before drilling down into the details. I'm facing a huge learning curve and had better get started sooner rather than later ... Will be grateful for any and all recommendations. Bob Harris, thanks for the question and for giving hope to us non-SSAers that it is possible to break into the system from the outside.
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Post by montyburns on Feb 2, 2016 0:33:05 GMT -5
I am not an ALJ, so I hesitate to tell an ALJ what they should do before they start doing hearings. That said, I more or less agree with the general advice given here - wrap up your stuff and don't worry about it in the near term. However, while I think you will certainly get the day-to-day down of being an ALJ within 6 months, there a lot of rabbit holes you can go down that you will not know about just by viewing the SSA modules (are people really saying these are good?..... zzzzzz, I respectfully disagree). I agree most strongly with Val - find someone who actually knows what they are doing and learn from them. And read case law from the circuit you will be practicing in, it is the only law that actually matters. And if you were to buy a practice manual, I would suggest (though have no connection to) Mr. Tom Bush's SSD practice manual. When I was a rep, this was my goto, and is loaded with information (I'll admit I have not read the many others, I frankly cannot believe how many others there are!). I find it somewhat odd that people making over 130K find dropping 300-400 on a manual to be unreasonable. If nothing else you should inform yourself of the rep's perspective. And FWIW, I have seen Mr. Bush talk at a NOSSCR conference or two, and this guy can recite more about a given area of SSDI law in 5 minutes than most folks could muster in 2 days.
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Post by blondswede on Feb 2, 2016 1:13:16 GMT -5
The greatest class I ever took for doing SSA work (as someone with no medical background) was a community college class called Medical Terminology for Medical Assistants, or something like that. The textbook was a body-system-by-body-system guide to the terminology used in medical records and procedures, including important tests, abnormalities, and best of all: all of the vocabulary broken down into the primarily Greek roots. For example, "itis" means inflammation, and "arthr(o)-" means joint, so "arthritis" means inflamed joints. "Hepa-" means liver, so "hepatitis" means inflamed (swollen, enlarged) liver. The ability to break these kinds of words down makes speaking the language of medicine so much easier. I do not have the book anymore, or I would recommend it (I had a replacement book that was not as good), but you should be able to find something similar online or at a local medical assistant school bookstore. It helps if you like to learn things, especially language. Even with the Internet and medical resources from SSA, the ability to understand why the terms being used are being used is remarkably comforting and helpful. In my opinion. Which is not humble, FYI. I wish I'd had something like that. I've had to learn the hard way, i.e. making a fool of myself trying to guess what a medical term meant [FYI: "facet" as a medical term is pronounced "fasétte" with the emphasis on the 2nd syllable (I don't have a "schwa" on my keyboard), I pronounced it " facette" with emphasis on 1st syllable, like the side of a diamond. The physician whose depo we were taking corrected my pronunciation, to my horror: I was green, but hoped the other attorney wouldn't know; he did after the correction]. I've had a tiny book called, Medical Abbreviations: 4200 Conveniences at the Expense of Communications and Safety, Neil M. Davis, 1987, ever since 1987 and it's been invaluable to me. It is now in its 15th edition, with 32,000 abbreviations. Mine is 4" x 6", the new one is 6" x 9". www.barnesandnoble.com/w/medical-abbreviations-davis/1101762753 ($22.43). www.amazon.com/Medical-Abbreviations-Conveniences-Expense-Communication/dp/0931431158 ($28.95 with Prime). It's made reading physicians'/nurses' hand-written notes actually bearable. Of course, years and years of doing this (28 for me) makes what is usually seen as chicken-scratch actually legible; but, without knowing what those letters/abbreviations mean won't help you at all. So, anyone having to read hand-written medical notes (e.g. ALJs in ODAR) will be totally lost without a source to decipher abbreviations. Not to mention learning medical shorthand yourself, which makes taking notes during testimony much easier.
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Post by quesera on Feb 2, 2016 8:48:40 GMT -5
That I have seen, no one has mentioned utilizing the experience of your friendly neighborhood ODAR Senior Attorney Advisor, or even a regular Attorney Advisor (given that the promotions have dried up in ODAR). If your office has a friendly attorney staff member, who is known to be a smart cookie (ask your fellow ALJs), you can develop a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" relationship over time. This person can be good for questions, and will appreciate your humility. When the friendly neighborhood (S)AA comes to your office or sends you an IM pointing out a problem in your instructions, please listen to her/him. Over time, if you appreciate this professional's work, you might offer to serve as a reference or write a letter for an award. This is, of course, in addition to your mentor, other ALJs in this office, etc. And keep in mind that the ODAR attorney may have production pressures.
I agree about the medical learning- that will be the hardest part, if you don't already know how to read medical records.
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Post by southerngal on Feb 2, 2016 12:02:43 GMT -5
The greatest class I ever took for doing SSA work (as someone with no medical background) was a community college class called Medical Terminology for Medical Assistants, or something like that. The textbook was a body-system-by-body-system guide to the terminology used in medical records and procedures, including important tests, abnormalities, and best of all: all of the vocabulary broken down into the primarily Greek roots. For example, "itis" means inflammation, and "arthr(o)-" means joint, so "arthritis" means inflamed joints. "Hepa-" means liver, so "hepatitis" means inflamed (swollen, enlarged) liver. The ability to break these kinds of words down makes speaking the language of medicine so much easier. I do not have the book anymore, or I would recommend it (I had a replacement book that was not as good), but you should be able to find something similar online or at a local medical assistant school bookstore. It helps if you like to learn things, especially language. Even with the Internet and medical resources from SSA, the ability to understand why the terms being used are being used is remarkably comforting and helpful. In my opinion. Which is not humble, FYI. Propmaster's course sounds a lot like the one I took as I began to expand my SS Disability client base. It was offered at a local hospital (designed for hospital workers but open to the public for a very reasonable fee). We were taught memory tools for each term. These many years later, I have very little trouble remembering the terms for medical conditions and procedures.
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Post by Propmaster on Feb 2, 2016 12:25:48 GMT -5
The greatest class I ever took for doing SSA work (as someone with no medical background) was a community college class called Medical Terminology for Medical Assistants, or something like that. The textbook was a body-system-by-body-system guide to the terminology used in medical records and procedures, including important tests, abnormalities, and best of all: all of the vocabulary broken down into the primarily Greek roots. For example, "itis" means inflammation, and "arthr(o)-" means joint, so "arthritis" means inflamed joints. "Hepa-" means liver, so "hepatitis" means inflamed (swollen, enlarged) liver. The ability to break these kinds of words down makes speaking the language of medicine so much easier. I do not have the book anymore, or I would recommend it (I had a replacement book that was not as good), but you should be able to find something similar online or at a local medical assistant school bookstore. It helps if you like to learn things, especially language. Even with the Internet and medical resources from SSA, the ability to understand why the terms being used are being used is remarkably comforting and helpful. In my opinion. Which is not humble, FYI. I wish I'd had something like that. I've had to learn the hard way, i.e. making a fool of myself trying to guess what a medical term meant [FYI: "facet" as a medical term is pronounced "fasétte" with the emphasis on the 2nd syllable (I don't have a "schwa" on my keyboard), I pronounced it " facette" with emphasis on 1st syllable, like the side of a diamond. The physician whose depo we were taking corrected my pronunciation, to my horror: I was green, but hoped the other attorney wouldn't know; he did after the correction]. I've had a tiny book called, Medical Abbreviations: 4200 Conveniences at the Expense of Communications and Safety, Neil M. Davis, 1987, ever since 1987 and it's been invaluable to me. It is now in its 15th edition, with 32,000 abbreviations. Mine is 4" x 6", the new one is 6" x 9". www.barnesandnoble.com/w/medical-abbreviations-davis/1101762753 ($22.43). www.amazon.com/Medical-Abbreviations-Conveniences-Expense-Communication/dp/0931431158 ($28.95 with Prime). It's made reading physicians'/nurses' hand-written notes actually bearable. Of course, years and years of doing this (28 for me) makes what is usually seen as chicken-scratch actually legible; but, without knowing what those letters/abbreviations mean won't help you at all. So, anyone having to read hand-written medical notes (e.g. ALJs in ODAR) will be totally lost without a source to decipher abbreviations. Not to mention learning medical shorthand yourself, which makes taking notes during testimony much easier. Thanks for the referral. I looked it up and purchased a used copy, and I look forward to no longer updating my personal list of abbreviations, which is far short of 32,000 (but better for my SSA purposes than most Internet references because I write down in it abbreviations I find or figure out in records so I do not have to look them up all the time). I also looked up the book I was talking about. It is $110.00+ now, and it seems to come in so many parts (workbook, e.g.) that it was hard to know what to link to, if anything. It was Medical terminology for Medical Professions by Ann Ehrlich and another person. I highly recommend it, but not to the point that I can say it will definitely be worth the money to anyone for any particular purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 12:39:22 GMT -5
I don't know if knowing SSA law or regs will help in the interview, because that is secret. However, with zero background in SSA I was hired a year ago as a decision writer. The national training teaches you everything you need to get started, and the slow ramp up with mentors they use has left me a year later feeling very competent at my job. I imagine it is the same for the ALJ training which is supposedly VERY similar to the decision writer training.
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Post by privateatty on Feb 3, 2016 17:04:40 GMT -5
One of the most important things I had to learn in my past life is that doctors and lawyers do not think alike. At all. Its not just the difference in their training, its their philosophy. You may want to know why a person is a meth addict or a child beater or is an uncontrolled diabetic. Unless it helps with their assessment; i.e. diagnosis and plan (and most times it does not) a doctor could care less. Doctors will almost always overlook medical malpractice and stupidity from all quarters. The term "non-compliant" is used for a multitude of sins. Now as an ODAR Judge the AC will not allow you to determine disability on the basis of past behavior per se, but to you it may be relevant as to credibility. How many times have you seen a doctor's report say that I don't believe the patient and I know their denial as to drug use is bogus?
So in this context just learning medical terms, while certainly more than useful, is IMHO, not enough. You have to understand the medical record to apply it properly. And that means truly understanding the medical versus the legal, agendas.
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Post by ba on Feb 3, 2016 21:36:52 GMT -5
One of the most important things I had to learn in my past life is that doctors and lawyers do not think alike. At all. Its not just the difference in their training, its their philosophy. You may want to know why a person is a meth addict or a child beater or is an uncontrolled diabetic. Unless it helps with their assessment; i.e. diagnosis and plan (and most times it does not) a doctor could care less. Doctors will almost always overlook medical malpractice and stupidity from all quarters. The term "non-compliant" is used for a multitude of sins. Now as an ODAR Judge the AC will not allow you to determine disability on the basis of past behavior per se, but to you it may be relevant as to credibility. How many times have you seen a doctor's report say that I don't believe the patient and I know their denial as to drug use is bogus? So in this context just learning medical terms, while certainly more than useful, is IMHO, not enough. You have to understand the medical record to apply it properly. And that means truly understanding the medical versus the legal, agendas. On a point which I agree with this, I will note that the medical mind accepts what the patient says and works from there. The legal mind questions everything it is told.
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Post by sealaw90 on Feb 3, 2016 21:39:42 GMT -5
One of the most important things I had to learn in my past life is that doctors and lawyers do not think alike. At all. Its not just the difference in their training, its their philosophy. You may want to know why a person is a meth addict or a child beater or is an uncontrolled diabetic. Unless it helps with their assessment; i.e. diagnosis and plan (and most times it does not) a doctor could care less. Doctors will almost always overlook medical malpractice and stupidity from all quarters. The term "non-compliant" is used for a multitude of sins. Now as an ODAR Judge the AC will not allow you to determine disability on the basis of past behavior per se, but to you it may be relevant as to credibility. How many times have you seen a doctor's report say that I don't believe the patient and I know their denial as to drug use is bogus? So in this context just learning medical terms, while certainly more than useful, is IMHO, not enough. You have to understand the medical record to apply it properly. And that means truly understanding the medical versus the legal, agendas. On a point which I agree with this, I will note that the medical mind accepts what the patient says and works from there. The legal mind questions everything it is told. Absolutely true, and I've never heard it so succinctly said! Bravo ba.
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Post by 71stretch on Feb 4, 2016 12:58:02 GMT -5
One of the most important things I had to learn in my past life is that doctors and lawyers do not think alike. At all. Its not just the difference in their training, its their philosophy. You may want to know why a person is a meth addict or a child beater or is an uncontrolled diabetic. Unless it helps with their assessment; i.e. diagnosis and plan (and most times it does not) a doctor could care less. Doctors will almost always overlook medical malpractice and stupidity from all quarters. The term "non-compliant" is used for a multitude of sins. Now as an ODAR Judge the AC will not allow you to determine disability on the basis of past behavior per se, but to you it may be relevant as to credibility. How many times have you seen a doctor's report say that I don't believe the patient and I know their denial as to drug use is bogus? So in this context just learning medical terms, while certainly more than useful, is IMHO, not enough. You have to understand the medical record to apply it properly. And that means truly understanding the medical versus the legal, agendas. On a point which I agree with this, I will note that the medical mind accepts what the patient says and works from there. The legal mind questions everything it is told. As a worker's compensation judge for over 20 years, I know this is true.
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Post by mamaru on Feb 4, 2016 13:05:05 GMT -5
I don't know if knowing SSA law or regs will help in the interview, because that is secret. However, with zero background in SSA I was hired a year ago as a decision writer. The national training teaches you everything you need to get started, and the slow ramp up with mentors they use has left me a year later feeling very competent at my job. I imagine it is the same for the ALJ training which is supposedly VERY similar to the decision writer training. I would really love to hear from somebody who has made the transition on the similarity between DW training and ALJ training - I know some of it is the same but I would hope it's much broader. The DWs can help with the substantive law, but there's plenty ALJs do that the DWs are clueless about.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:17:52 GMT -5
I don't know if knowing SSA law or regs will help in the interview, because that is secret. However, with zero background in SSA I was hired a year ago as a decision writer. The national training teaches you everything you need to get started, and the slow ramp up with mentors they use has left me a year later feeling very competent at my job. I imagine it is the same for the ALJ training which is supposedly VERY similar to the decision writer training. I would really love to hear from somebody who has made the transition on the similarity between DW training and ALJ training - I know some of it is the same but I would hope it's much broader. The DWs can help with the substantive law, but there's plenty ALJs do that the DWs are clueless about. I would enjoy hearing from an ALJ that was a DW first as well. Would be interesting to hear the differences in training. I would also like to hear about the "plenty" that DW are "clueless" about. Obviously if I am clueless about it, I don't know that I am clueless about it, so I can't really argue that point, but some examples would be nice.
I've gotten a lot of confidence from being a DW that I could be an excellent ALJ. There are a wide range of competencies in the ALJs that I have been asked to write for. Most of the ALJs do an amazing job of weighing evidence and assigning credibility and figuring out the best "guess' at what to do. But I have seem quite a few ALJs that seem to do this...
1) Read through a steps in a hearing sheet, inserting claimant's name in the blanks. 2) propose a range of hypos based on the claimant's impairments. 3) pick the hypo that matches the VE opinion that matches whether you feel like paying the case or not. 4) give the DW a 5-steps checklist and some hand written notes to go write an opinion (that won't get remanded by the AC) that justifies whether the ALJ wanted to pay or not.
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Post by tripper on Feb 4, 2016 13:25:21 GMT -5
1) Read through a steps in a hearing sheet, inserting claimant's name in the blanks. 2) propose a range of hypos based on the claimant's impairments. 3) pick the hypo that matches the VE opinion that matches whether you feel like paying the case or not. 4) give the DW a 5-steps checklist and some hand written notes to go write an opinion (that won't get remanded by the AC) that justifies whether the ALJ wanted to pay or not.
Oh I wish that was the worst of it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:30:11 GMT -5
1) Read through a steps in a hearing sheet, inserting claimant's name in the blanks. 2) propose a range of hypos based on the claimant's impairments. 3) pick the hypo that matches the VE opinion that matches whether you feel like paying the case or not. 4) give the DW a 5-steps checklist and some hand written notes to go write an opinion (that won't get remanded by the AC) that justifies whether the ALJ wanted to pay or not.
Oh I wish that was the worst of it. Oh I was just characterizing the typical low end of the ALJ pool, not the horrible, terrible, (but few) get-them-off-the-bench-now ALJs.
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