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Post by jagvet on Mar 17, 2016 16:12:39 GMT -5
I thought some of the older judges might refuse, but none did. I don't think it's my brilliant courtroom skills. I think it is that most are never asked, and unless they hated your guts (and you already know who they are), they will be glad to help.
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Post by rosycheeks on Mar 17, 2016 16:22:46 GMT -5
Looks like I've got myself into a pickle... I don't even remember the names of any of the judges I appeared before, so chances are, they won't remember me either. I will be disappointed if, after making it this far, I don't proceed any further for this reason. Surely, given the vast background of applicants, I can't be the only one in this situation. I have read others' opinions in various threads on the board and hope I can figure out a way to solve my problem (soon!)
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Post by slainte on Mar 17, 2016 16:37:34 GMT -5
I do not think that I am giving away intel because we are past the tests and onto the future certificate phase(s) but if I am wrong, please shame me and the board leaders can delete, edit, and punish at will. That said, these thoughts are based on my unsuccessful 2009 application (due to my low score).
I agree with jagvet that the best practice is to reach out to your judicial reference(s) now. Have a nice (maybe slightly awkward too) conversation about your past work in their court and hearing room, what you have been up to, and how you are now on the ALJ register so could you list him or her as a reference? Break the ice if it has been a while so s/he is not shocked when the call comes asking all these questions about your work.
I faxed letters yesterday to my two past and hopefully soon-to-be ALJ references which said how I'm on the register again and I'd like to talk in the near future (my third reference is a former colleague who is very familiar with my work and now a state ALJ). I have not heard back but I'll call their ODARs tomorrow and leave messages with the assistants to follow up. It's a process so patience is necessary.
As to double-using references, if you have no other choice do it as it may not be fatal but best practice is to list separate judicial, adversary, and character references. I believe that these nine do not include your supervisors.
If you are lucky enough to be on the first certificate, you'll only have a week to complete and turn in the required forms so prepare now.
And to wrap it up, Adr Mor (good luck in Gaelic).
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Post by Erik Breukink on Mar 17, 2016 16:39:05 GMT -5
Correct if i m wrong, but you dont have to have necesarrily practiced in front of the judge, cant they just be aware of your character, etc? Thats how i read the form, although my memory is clioudy, (hey its march 17, cut me some slack!)
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Post by numbersix on Mar 17, 2016 16:41:01 GMT -5
The references are a challenge for me, too. I'm thinking, thinking. I just received a NOR but am not on a cert. It feels premature to line up references prior to making a cert. Sure I'm hopeful but you don't know if you will...Should I really go ahead and contact them now?
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Post by Erik Breukink on Mar 17, 2016 16:47:17 GMT -5
Why not? I guess it depends how well you know them. I contacted two of my bros today. I dont think you are delinquent if you dont, i just had some time today and am trying to be proactive because in case i get jammed up in future litigation. I d just go for it, if you have the time.
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Post by Pixie on Mar 17, 2016 16:52:18 GMT -5
I do not think that I am giving away intel because we are past the tests and onto the future certificate phase(s) but if I am wrong, please shame me and the board leaders can delete, edit, and punish at will. That said, these thoughts are based on my unsuccessful 2009 a This is a dynamic process, not static. So there will be others coming in behind you. No need to delete, edit and punish as I don't think discussion about references gives an unfair advantage. It is helpful but not unfair. If anyone doesn't agree, let me know and I will take another look at it. Pixie.
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Post by bac on Mar 17, 2016 17:10:50 GMT -5
Without giving it away, anyone believe a hearing officer or AJ makes the cut for this? Thinking not, but good to have to many names than too few
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Post by sealaw90 on Mar 17, 2016 17:18:07 GMT -5
Each reference has to be unique. You can search for judges from your past, but don't forget, you also need three adversaries!
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Post by bac on Mar 17, 2016 17:32:41 GMT -5
I have some that are both (before they ascended to the bench)
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Post by bac on Mar 17, 2016 17:37:08 GMT -5
One problem with adversaries is they can be so ...adversarial
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Post by mack15 on Mar 17, 2016 17:41:32 GMT -5
If I cannot use former supervisors who were attorneys when they supervised me, but are now judges who don't supervise me or hear my cases, I definitely won't be able to provide three judicial references.
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Post by jagvet on Mar 17, 2016 18:16:48 GMT -5
If I cannot use former supervisors who were attorneys when they supervised me, but are now judges who don't supervise me or hear my cases, I definitely won't be able to provide three judicial references. Dig deep, everyone. You may have had a motion hearing you did well, or an oral argument. Don't be shy about asking for the reference from the judge. All they can say is no. As to adversaries, I had close attorney friends who at some time or another were case adversaries. They do not have to be mortal enemies, just on the other side of a case. Apologize for not having stayed in touch. Ask how they have been, explain the ALJ process (if that's at all possible), and you will be surprised.
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Post by raylan on Mar 17, 2016 18:29:55 GMT -5
I have a couple of reference related questions that I'm hoping the Board members may be able to give me some insight on. One, are retired judges appropriate? Technically, once a judge always a judge (at least as far as my state's law go when it comes to conducting marriages). I've been out of private practice and working for government for the past five years and a couple of the judges who I know best have left the bench.
My second question involves an adversarial reference. One that I would like to use (who actually is a retired judge as well) is a close family friend who, when asked how long he has known me, could frankly state my age, since he's known me since I was born. I'm just wondering whether that would raise some eyebrows.
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Post by minny on Mar 17, 2016 21:03:10 GMT -5
Without giving it away, anyone believe a hearing officer or AJ makes the cut for this? Thinking not, but good to have to many names than too few Yes, I believe they do. I have been in administrative forums and away from state and federal courtrooms too long not to use these types of references. The AJs were by far the most familiar with me and my work. I also used one arbitrator who I appeared before on numerous occasions. Otherwise, I would have been in a real pickle like others.
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Post by minny on Mar 17, 2016 21:08:28 GMT -5
I have a couple of reference related questions that I'm hoping the Board members may be able to give me some insight on. One, are retired judges appropriate? Technically, once a judge always a judge (at least as far as my state's law go when it comes to conducting marriages). I've been out of private practice and working for government for the past five years and a couple of the judges who I know best have left the bench. My second question involves an adversarial reference. One that I would like to use (who actually is a retired judge as well) is a close family friend who, when asked how long he has known me, could frankly state my age, since he's known me since I was born. I'm just wondering whether that would raise some eyebrows. Retired judges are entirely appropriate, I think. As for adversarials, all of mine were also friends, so I do not think the fact that one of yours is a close family friend is a problem at all. Mine just happened to have been on the opposite side of cases here and there.
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Post by luckylady2 on Mar 17, 2016 21:34:00 GMT -5
I too have searched the Board for answers, re: judicial references and a few things are still a little unclear to me. Must the judicial references be separate from former supervisors? In other words, if a former supervisor was/is a judge, is it acceptable to list that person as a judicial reference, or is that person precluded from being a judicial reference given his/her status as a former supervisor? If the latter is true, I fear that I will not have any judicial references to list as I have not argued in a courtroom in well over 10 years! WHEN SSA contacts you to tell you that your name has been referred to them on a city-cert, the instructions in the paperwork ask you for 9 references that are NOT listed as supervisors for your jobs for the last 10 years (or 15?- I don't remember, and it changed between 2014 and 2015). Just like with the OPM application stage of this process, when you get the instructions, DON'T IGNORE THEM.
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Post by cafeta on Mar 18, 2016 0:13:59 GMT -5
Remember that you can use an ALJ if you know one who would be good for you. Curious, can you use an AAJ for the AC?
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elvis
Full Member
Viva Falls Church!
Posts: 69
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Post by elvis on Mar 18, 2016 0:56:19 GMT -5
I believe there is only one slot on the form for a supervisor for each job performed in the last ten years. So if I have had the same job for the past ten years but four supervisors while performing that job, I should be able to use the three past supervisors as personal references, yes?
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 18, 2016 7:56:07 GMT -5
Remember that you can use an ALJ if you know one who would be good for you. Curious, can you use an AAJ for the AC? i think that would be a better choice than leaving it blank; as with all the references, be sure they can answer the questions.
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