|
|
Post by luckylady2 on Apr 16, 2015 15:32:43 GMT -5
I've got 2 judges on board and am STILL waiting to hear from 2 others - ARGG!!! My 3rd regular reference judge has died, so I was going to need to call on them, but with my narrow GAL, I figured my name wouldn't come up for a while longer, so I didn't contact them ahead of the certs coming out, which would have given us more time to sort it out. Yay, hindsight!
So if I don't hear back from one of the other judges, should I just put in another non-judge colleague to fill out the 9? Or do I start beating the bushes for a reference from someone who's a judge that barely knows me and I haven't appeared before?
This is frustrating! Everything's ready to go and I'm waiting on a phone call.
|
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on Apr 16, 2015 15:41:17 GMT -5
Do you know a retired judge you could use as a third reference who knows your skills and abilities? If you cannot find a sitting judge, use a retired one, if possible. However, if you do not have that possibility, then yes, use another professional reference who can attest to your courtroom abilities. Using someone who you only know in passing will not be as useful to you when he/she is called. Always learn to plan ahead my friend.
|
|
|
|
Post by cinderblock on Apr 16, 2015 15:41:27 GMT -5
If it makes you feel better, I ended up not hearing back from several judges, and I was only able to list one as a reference. Evidently, that wasn't a barrier to getting an offer.
|
|
|
|
Post by luckylady2 on Apr 16, 2015 15:54:31 GMT -5
If it makes you feel better, I ended up not hearing back from several judges, and I was only able to list one as a reference. Evidently, that wasn't a barrier to getting an offer. Cinder - did you end up filling out the Judge-blanks with other people or just leave them empty? |
|
|
|
Post by luckylady2 on Apr 16, 2015 15:55:08 GMT -5
And yes, the best planning of mice & men......
|
|
|
|
Post by crab on Apr 16, 2015 15:56:00 GMT -5
IMHO, I'd choose a non-judge who knows you and your work and personality well over a judge who does not know you well and will add little of probative value to their assessment of you.
Good luck to you and all the other hopefuls!
Edit: And I wouldn't leave empties - if memory serves, the form contemplates substitutions.
|
|
|
|
Post by cinderblock on Apr 16, 2015 16:08:54 GMT -5
If it makes you feel better, I ended up not hearing back from several judges, and I was only able to list one as a reference. Evidently, that wasn't a barrier to getting an offer. Cinder - did you end up filling out the Judge-blanks with other people or just leave them empty? I left them empty, and when I emailed the forms back to SSA, I indicated that I would supplement the judicial references if possible. But since I never heard back from another judge, I never supplemented, and so I just had the one. |
|
|
|
Post by 71stretch on Apr 16, 2015 16:23:57 GMT -5
Remember that you can use an ALJ if you know one who would be good for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by laurenb on Apr 23, 2015 11:44:53 GMT -5
I practice solely in federal court. I put down three judges who I have argued before recently, but I don't think if someone called one of them up to ask about me he/she would know my name off the top of his/her head or attest to my work as an attorney. These are the only judges I know in a professional sense. Would it have been better to just leave it blank? Should I send a disclaimer of that to someone at SSA?
|
|
|
|
Post by sealaw90 on Apr 23, 2015 11:56:01 GMT -5
Lauren,
Hmmm, did you reach out to the judges and notify them that they are now a reference for you? If course you did! And in that notification, you reminded them of the case/cases you argued/appeared before them? I'm sure you did. So while you were on the topic of you, you gave them a little of your background so they were prepared to discuss Lauren.
If you didn't do this, was it because you felt uncomfortable doing this? If so, they they may not be the best reference for you.
If you did prepare them to be a judicial reference for you, then you should be fine.
Many of us are in similar positions and have a hard time finding three judicial references, others have it easier. If you search the board you'll find a few other threads on this topic. Good luck!
|
|
|
|
Post by anotherfed on Apr 23, 2015 11:57:24 GMT -5
I practice solely in federal court. I put down three judges who I have argued before recently, but I don't think if someone called one of them up to ask about me he/she would know my name off the top of his/her head or attest to my work as an attorney. These are the only judges I know in a professional sense. Would it have been better to just leave it blank? Should I send a disclaimer of that to someone at SSA? Have you contacted the judges? You might want to send them a quick email reminding them who you are and highlighting your major accomplishments. Give them talking points. AFTER they issue the opinions in those cases. I sent all my references the script that is posted on this Board (for those who plan ahead thread?). Then I gave them a narrative about my strengths, career, and personal attributes. Not suggesting answers, just giving them enough info to use. |
|
|
|
Post by dpageks on Apr 23, 2015 14:10:06 GMT -5
I practice solely in federal court. I put down three judges who I have argued before recently, but I don't think if someone called one of them up to ask about me he/she would know my name off the top of his/her head or attest to my work as an attorney. These are the only judges I know in a professional sense. Would it have been better to just leave it blank? Should I send a disclaimer of that to someone at SSA? The gentleman who called me to set up my interview said that I could bring additional references, an updated resume', and a "biography" to the interview. Although I won't need to provide any of these items, this knowledge may be helpful to any of those wishing to supplement the information they have already submitted. |
|
|
|
Post by mack15 on Mar 17, 2016 13:23:14 GMT -5
This is the best place that I can find in the discussion forum, as opposed to the poll forum, for this question. I've searched and searched already too. Thank you for your patience, as I'm obviously new, but trying to avoid duplicative questions and follow the protocol.
As to the judicial references, are you allowed to share more specific information about the instructions? Is it broad enough to encompass references who are judges and are familiar with your work, even though you have not appeared before them in a court room?
Also, I'm worried about obtaining a third judicial reference because of active pending cases (and somewhat because of lack of extensive knowledge of me). I'm interested in any helpful advice regarding this issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by sealaw90 on Mar 17, 2016 15:07:18 GMT -5
This is the best place that I can find in the discussion forum, as opposed to the poll forum, for this question. I've searched and searched already too. Thank you for your patience, as I'm obviously new, but trying to avoid duplicative questions and follow the protocol. As to the judicial references, are you allowed to share more specific information about the instructions? Is it broad enough to encompass references who are judges and are familiar with your work, even though you have not appeared before them in a court room? Also, I'm worried about obtaining a third judicial reference because of active pending cases (and somewhat because of lack of extensive knowledge of me). I'm interested in any helpful advice regarding this issue. Mack, You are a new member, so welcome aboard. glad to see you've done some research and are trying to answer your own question, but could you answer a few of my questions first so we can all help you and point you in the right direction? First - are you currently/have you recently been placed on the OPM register of eligible for the 2013 ALJ application? Second - if not, are you hoping to apply when the ALJ application process opens up in the next few weeks? Third - if so, you should probably look at the 'old' 2013 application announcement for clues on references needed at the starting point.
The thread you found is referring to judicial references that folks need AFTER they called by SSA for an interview. As an example, I turned in my list of references 2 1/2 YEARS after I applied to be an ALJ.
Now, we all know that depending upon the type of law you practice, you may indeed have the same active pending cases now that you do 2 1/2 years later, so I understand why you want to know, but I just want to make sure you are not confusing the many steps in this process!
|
|
|
|
Post by jagvet on Mar 17, 2016 15:10:49 GMT -5
When I went through this after getting my NOR in November 2015, I thought I would have trouble because I hadn't been in court in 12 years. Some judges I had not seen in so many years that I had to do state bar searches to find their email addresses. One reference was a judge before whom I had only appeared once around 1983, when he was a part-time municipal judge and it was a traffic ticket (not mine). However, we stayed in touch until about 15 years ago. He's now a full-time judge of some distinction (no more info to protect his and my PII), and he was delighted to hear from me and to help out. I sent him an email explaining what this ALJ stuff was, what to expect (from a board posting) and even reminding him of some of the things he may have forgotten about me. He emailed me after the ODAR contractors called him and gave me a virtual transcript of the conversation. He has stayed in touch and asked me to keep him posted on my progress. I had to tell him when I didn't get the call, but I reconnected with an old friend, and he gave a great recommendation. This was true to a lesser extent with all of my judicial references. Even though I didn't list former supervisors as "references," all my former bosses were contacted and were asked exactly the same questions as my references. Only one was annoyed, but said he gave me a good reference anyway. Lesson learned here: Contact all your references and make sure they remember your greatness and know to expect a call. Contact all your former supervisors with whom you are on speaking terms (and maybe if not) for the same thing. Good luck
|
|
|
|
Post by mack15 on Mar 17, 2016 15:45:23 GMT -5
I am among those who just received the NOR results informing me that I passed the DC testing portion. I'm trying to anticipate what may be thrown my way in the near future, including the three judicial references, three adversary attorney references, and three non adversary attorney references. I have not contacted any potential references yet. I'm considering doing so, based upon posts I've found via the search function mentioning very short turn around times for paperwork that I may receive. I'm trying to be prepared as I agonize over whether I can actually move and gamble that I can come back because my family is not mobile, though we were when I originally applied. The three judicial references is the biggest job application process concern that I have because the information that I've found this far is unclear regarding my two concerns.
|
|
|
|
Post by rosycheeks on Mar 17, 2016 16:05:45 GMT -5
I too have searched the Board for answers, re: judicial references and a few things are still a little unclear to me.
Must the judicial references be separate from former supervisors? In other words, if a former supervisor was/is a judge, is it acceptable to list that person as a judicial reference, or is that person precluded from being a judicial reference given his/her status as a former supervisor? If the latter is true, I fear that I will not have any judicial references to list as I have not argued in a courtroom in well over 10 years!
|
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Mar 17, 2016 16:07:15 GMT -5
Is it broad enough to encompass references who are judges and are familiar with your work, even though you have not appeared before them in a court room? Also, I'm worried about obtaining a third judicial reference because of active pending cases (and somewhat because of lack of extensive knowledge of me). I'm interested in any helpful advice regarding this issue. The portion of the application form dealing with Judicial References says: "Please provide the names of at least three Federal, State, or Municipal Court Judges that are familiar with your work ethic. You may include Administrative law Judges." That is literally all of the guidance from ODAR on how to select your judicial references. If you look through some of the threads you will find the list of questions that the references will be asked. You will also see people's opinions and experiences with references. |
|
|
|
Post by jagvet on Mar 17, 2016 16:09:34 GMT -5
I too have searched the Board for answers, re: judicial references and a few things are still a little unclear to me. Must the judicial references be separate from former supervisors? In other words, if a former supervisor was/is a judge, is it acceptable to list that person as a judicial reference, or is that person precluded from being a judicial reference given his/her status as a former supervisor? If the latter is true, I fear that I will not have any judicial references to list as I have not argued in a courtroom in well over 10 years! It is 12 years for me. Go find those judges, rosy. You might be surprised how they still remember you! |
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Mar 17, 2016 16:10:13 GMT -5
I too have searched the Board for answers, re: judicial references and a few things are still a little unclear to me. Must the judicial references be separate from former supervisors? In other words, if a former supervisor was/is a judge, is it acceptable to list that person as a judicial reference, or is that person precluded from being a judicial reference given his/her status as a former supervisor? If the latter is true, I fear that I will not have any judicial references to list as I have not argued in a courtroom in well over 10 years! You cannot use a supervisory reference as any other kind of reference. |
|
