May 2016 Transfer List

[Gaidin]

Remember the transfer list is for entertainment purposes only.



The above transfer list has an ALJ ID in place of an ALJs name. That number is more or less randomly generated when I prep the list and does not necessarily correspond to the same ALJ ID on previous lists.



The transfer list is a slippery animal and I do not believe it can effectively be used to predict the locations of future hiring or the desirability of offices. However, there is some interesting information in there and perhaps most importantly it gives us something to do while we wait for offers to start.



The below thread offers a good explanation of how the transfer list works. I would remind you that the time from hire as an ALJ to being able to get on the transfer list is now 15 months instead of the 90 days it was when this thread was created.



aljdiscussion.proboards.com/thread/2539/gals-transfers?page=1



The transfer list can be found here:

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fDJFztAhBkGDPM2QNhm0NDTvVwHAeXwWD6CrtqS0mPk/edit?usp=sharing

[upperwolfjaw]

It is interesting that some transfer requests have lingered since 2012/13, even when the request is to go to an ODAR with many repeatedly open slots. It seems there are some ALJs who just never get a transfer request granted, no matter what. Is that true, or am I missing a factor?

[jagvet]

Ditto. I can understand why the Stockton to Honolulu request from 2001 hasn't happened, but more recent ones to cities that have had certs?

[upperwolfjaw]

There must be some sort of do-not-transfer label that can be applied to an ALJ. Or, perhaps, a do-not-transfer-to-there label. I am thinking of one specific ODAR where I know (on good authority) that the ODAR has received multiple transfers and has been on multiple certs, all while there were multiple ALJ-transfer-requests pending and not granted - for several years. This particular ODAR has been in tremendous need of ALJs, and remained short-staffed for about 2 years. Why the rejected transfer requests into that ODAR? Odd, and worth knowing why for those hoping to get an ALJ job and later transfer back home. Is there a particular kind of manager in whose good graces one must remain, if a transfer is to be obtained? Is it more formal, such that you would know you have a skull-and-bones stamp on your file?

[Pixie]

May 4, 2016 18:02:41 GMT -5 upperwolfjaw said:

It is interesting that some transfer requests have lingered since 2012/13, even when the request is to go to an ODAR with many repeatedly open slots. It seems there are some ALJs who just never get a transfer request granted, no matter what. Is that true, or am I missing a factor?

Some are not ready to transfer, and so indicate by declining the "Are you still interested in transferring?" email that is sent out prior to making the transfer offers. Not unusual to see them sit on the list for years, but that doesn't mean they had no opportunity to transfer. Then again some, as you say, some just have a hard time getting the transfer request granted. Pixie.

[upperwolfjaw]

Ah, that makes sense. An ALJ can request transfer but reject it when offered, remaining on the list and having it offered again later. Not so harsh as the application process, which is appropriate of course.

Thanks.

[Gaidin]

Also they do not in practice always ask every person on the transfer list if they want to transfer. Sometimes they only ask the first person on the list.

[Pixie]

May 4, 2016 18:25:01 GMT -5 upperwolfjaw said:

There must be some sort of do-not-transfer label that can be applied to an ALJ. Or, perhaps, a do-not-transfer-to-there label. I am thinking of one specific ODAR where I know (on good authority) that the ODAR has received multiple transfers and has been on multiple certs, all while there were multiple ALJ-transfer-requests pending and not granted - for several years. This particular ODAR has been in tremendous need of ALJs, and remained short-staffed for about 2 years. Why the rejected transfer requests into that ODAR? Odd, and worth knowing why for those hoping to get an ALJ job and later transfer back home. Is there a particular kind of manager in whose good graces one must remain, if a transfer is to be obtained? Is it more formal, such that you would know you have a skull-and-bones stamp on your file?

The CBA spells out the transfer protocol. The Agency is not required to transfer a judge upon request, but is required to "consider" transferring her. If a judge has a disciplinary letter in her file, that precludes a transfer for the year the letter is in the file. If the Agency has a reason for not transferring a judge, it need not do so. In my experience, the Agency has always had a good reason for not transferring  the judge and not that the Agency just doesn't "like" the individual. There may be reports to the contrary out there, but I certainly don't know all of the situations. Pixie.

[Pixie]

May 4, 2016 18:48:58 GMT -5 Gaidin said:

Also they do not in practice always ask every person on the transfer list if they want to transfer. Sometimes they only ask the first person on the list.

Yes, under the CBA, the Agency is not required to go down the list and offer a transfer to every eligible judge on the list. I have quoted the contract language in another post, but that is what it basically says. Pixie.

[ba]

Many ALJs who have no intention of leaving their HO are on the list for cities if there is a family need to move, for nearing retirement, or even just because "Well, that would be a fun place to go if offered." The list truly is for entertainment purposes only. It tells you nothing about who would accept a transfer if offered.

[bayou]

Interesting reading. Given the size of the list, is it fair to say that transfers aren't something that should be assumed, even over a long period, when making your GAL choices?

As a newbie, I'm unsure where this list is derived from. If it is an official list, would it not be possible to compare to prior lists to get an idea of the number of transfers, with the understanding that some will take themselves off the list without a transfer? In short, couldn't the upper limit of the # of transfers be established?

When you sort by ALJ #, you can see that some obviously took a job with the intent of transferring and are saying, anywhere but here.

I find it funny that one ALJ wants to move from NOLA to Metairie. Those offices can't be more than 5-7 miles apart and aside from minor traffic issues, NOLA>Metairie. Just goes to show you how individual everybody's GAL selections and work locations are.

[numbersix]

Will this transfer list be worked before offers will be made for the pending certs?

[cowboy]

Under the CBA yes. Transfers are required to be worked up to and offered to an office prior to a hire in that office. To address the prior points, I have seen through experience that there are many ALJs on the transfer list holding their spot, but bypassing the opportunity to transfer when offered, because it isn't the right time for them. Maybe they have children in HS ready to move on. Maybe they are on 5 offices in a city and really only want one. I know an ALJ who just put her name on a list where she wanted to show shortly after she got hired (this was before the rule changed to 15 months for new hires), yet this was an office that traditionally ALJs left only by feet first. Surprisingly, an ALJ retired and every person on that list before her declined. She then got the spot. Conclusion? There is no way to accurately predict how long it will take to transfer to an office. I'm working on my second transfer now and crossing my fingers for the fall.

[Gaidin]

May 5, 2016 7:43:14 GMT -5 bayou said:

Interesting reading. Given the size of the list, is it fair to say that transfers aren't something that should be assumed, even over a long period, when making your GAL choices?

As a newbie, I'm unsure where this list is derived from. If it is an official list, would it not be possible to compare to prior lists to get an idea of the number of transfers, with the understanding that some will take themselves off the list without a transfer? In short, couldn't the upper limit of the # of transfers be established?

When you sort by ALJ #, you can see that some obviously took a job with the intent of transferring and are saying, anywhere but here.

I find it funny that one ALJ wants to move from NOLA to Metairie. Those offices can't be more than 5-7 miles apart and aside from minor traffic issues, NOLA>Metairie. Just goes to show you how individual everybody's GAL selections and work locations are.

If you search for "transfer list" you will find a number of old transfer lists.  I think the last one I posted before this was March.  


The Metairie and NOLA offices are about 8 miles apart.  It looks like the big difference would be if you lived in Covington or Mandeville you would be at the office right after you crossed the Causeway versus having to spend another 20 minutes getting into downtown.

[Gaidin]

I was under the impression that the transfer list was worked before they pulled certs and that those locations on the certs were frozen until after hires were made. If that is true then this could simply be an effort to prepare for the next set of certs.

I am extremely curious to know which cities are being solicited for. In particular whether it is a city on the current certs.

[numbersix]

May 5, 2016 9:51:36 GMT -5 Gaidin said:

I was under the impression that the transfer list was worked before they pulled certs and that those locations on the certs were frozen until after hires were made. If that is true then this could simply be an effort to prepare for the next set of certs.

I am extremely curious to know which cities are being solicited for. In particular whether it is a city on the current certs.

Gaidin, I hope your impression is correct!

[raylan]

I strongly suspect, from my transfer list data mining, that several desirable locations have long lists of folks who don't want to transfer right now, but will towards the end of their careers and are just holding their spots. I believe it was Ft. Lauderdale that was recently on a cert despite having a huge transfer list

[bayou]

May 5, 2016 9:48:45 GMT -5 Gaidin said:

May 5, 2016 7:43:14 GMT -5 bayou said:

Interesting reading. Given the size of the list, is it fair to say that transfers aren't something that should be assumed, even over a long period, when making your GAL choices?

As a newbie, I'm unsure where this list is derived from. If it is an official list, would it not be possible to compare to prior lists to get an idea of the number of transfers, with the understanding that some will take themselves off the list without a transfer? In short, couldn't the upper limit of the # of transfers be established?

When you sort by ALJ #, you can see that some obviously took a job with the intent of transferring and are saying, anywhere but here.

I find it funny that one ALJ wants to move from NOLA to Metairie. Those offices can't be more than 5-7 miles apart and aside from minor traffic issues, NOLA>Metairie. Just goes to show you how individual everybody's GAL selections and work locations are.

If you search for "transfer list" you will find a number of old transfer lists.  I think the last one I posted before this was March.  


The Metairie and NOLA offices are about 8 miles apart.  It looks like the big difference would be if you lived in Covington or Mandeville you would be at the office right after you crossed the Causeway versus having to spend another 20 minutes getting into downtown.

I lived in Metairie while working in NOLA and lived in NOLA while working in Metairie.  You are correct that if someone lived on the Northshore, then avoiding the traffic snarl at the intersection of I-10 and Causeway is a plus.  Still, the Causeway itself is a traffic pain you wouldn't avoid in that scenario.  My point is how individual each person's concerns are.  The small amount of additional traffic would be more than outweighed by being in the CBD and being able to walk to all the places to eat and so forth.   

[funkyodar]

I suspect its all just part of the ever changing game board. It has been repeatedly mentioned by TPTB that once a cert is requested, transfers to certed cities are frozen. The agency is also required by contract to fill a position by transfer unless no one is on the transfer list for that city or if the first person on the list declines the transfer. If that occurs, the agency "shall consider" offering the transfer to the next person on the list and so on. They don't have to do it, they can hire a newbie then, but they can do it.

In light of those facts, this new transfer activity most likely indicates one (or some of each) of the following:

1. The transfer solicitations are for cities that are not among the 81 certed locales and are being offered to ready for the next round of certs.

2. In it's haste to get some hiring done, the agency failed to first work the transfer list prior to certing for these 81 and are remedying it now by seeing if any of the people on the list want the spots before they hire for them. In the event some do take transfers, I'm sure the agency can then shift their hiring to other certed or future certed cities and still hit their hoped for net gain.

3. The agency may have already had declinations of transfer offers by the first on the list for these solicited cities, went ahead and certed, but then decided to gauge interest from others on the list. That lets them see if, say they don't find a new hire they like willing to go to a city, they can then fall back on the transfer list to fill a position of need in a particular locale. As a hypo, say they worked the list and #1 for San Fran said no. They cert for San Fran because they only have to "consider" the next in line on the transfer list. But, lets say they don't like anyone amongst the new candidates that they can get for San Fran. Then the choice is to leave that slot unfilled or take #2 on the transfer list. In taking #2, there is a domino affect that may let them get to someone else they like in some other locale. So, these reported solicitations of interest may just be to give them more options for certain locales.

4. I have posited before that the fact that certain very highly popular locales are among these certed cities indicates to me some strict constructionist views by the Agency. The CBA says, and I partly paraphrase, when the agency decides a vacancy is going to be filled by an alj, they must first work the transfer list. It does not define "vacancy." Remember, the agency is hoping to increase the total number of aljs. They are doing so by placing ALJs in nonconforming offices and sometimes in wholly new satellite locations. In short, they are creating new positions. This, in the strictest sense, would not be a "vacancy" as there was not a prior position that was vacated. Thus, an argument can be made that they don't have to work the list for those newly created positions. Maybe some of that is going on. They certed for a new position in San Fran, say, but are working the list for a "vacancy" there. If no one takes the transfer, then that "vacancy" can be certed for next time.

I have no knowledge of San Fran at all, just using it as an example.

Remember, what is happening now at SSA is interviews for certs that will hopefully lead to at least 60 hires. They may go ahead and do the other hoped for 60 from these certs, or they may get new ones. Then they hope to do another 80 and will almost assuredly have to get new certs for that. Thus, there are way too many balls in the air for anyone to take anything you hear to be directly applicable to your specific spot in the line.

[funkyodar]

As to one location versus a quite nearby other....sometimes its the office itself and not the location that leads one to want to get out. Or, vice versa, get in. 8 miles may be a short distance, 20 minutes a short time...but two offices that close may be worlds apart in support, management, quality of life matters.

Not saying NOLA or Metarie is heaven or hell, merely saying a sitting alj may have reasons beyond location and traffic in why they want to be one place or another.