Outsider Questions!!!!

[apppending]

So I have an interview date. I feel like I know what the job really is about and what it requires - I've done hundreds of hearings as an attorney representative - but I have a number of questions about pay, travel and benefits. I'm not an insider. I keep getting different answers, even from the ALJ's I know . I need to know this information in case I am lucky enough to receive an offer. Any suggestions as to where to find the correct answers?? I can't be the only one with questions. My questions are:

(1) How many days a week do you work? Can you do 4
10 hour days? How about 3 12's?

(2) Are there set work hours? Does anyone care when you arrive
and leave as long as your cranking out cases?

(3) Can you work a day from home?

(4) What is the REAL starting pay? I have seen differences of
more than 10K.

(5) I have been told if I work for 5 years my wife and I are
covered by health insurance for life. True?

(6) How much travel for meetings/training etc is there on
average per year? I am asking about non-hearing related
travel.

(7) How much in-house training do experienced ALJ's receive a
year? I'm not talking about new hire training.

(8) Do ALJ's write any of their own decisions, or are they too
busy? Is there pressure either way about writing your own
decisions?

(9) What are some perks of the job?

(10) What are the downsides to the job?

Thanks in advance and good luck!

[jagghagg]

Wow, did you even LOOK through some of these threads ?

[notherapp]

Another question from a quasi-outsider (an attorney with another federal agency):

As a GS-er who is making more than the minimum paid an ALJ, does SSA pay at least as much or at least as much plus x% or $x? Would be nice to know.

[privateatty]

Apr 7, 2009 11:12:40 GMT -5 @jagghagg said:

Wow, did you even LOOK through some of these threads ?

Ditto.

[northwest]

Dear Apppending: Congratulations on your pending interview. You pose many good questions. However, I suggest that you look through the FAQs at the top of this board, and also read the Search101 message. You'll find many answers to your questions, but not necessarily all of them. I suggest that you then write a new query with the questions that still need answering after you've done your search.

Good luck.

PS: The trickiest part of doing the search is that you need to make sure to change the timeframe each time you run a search. I usually change it to 360 days.

[ALJD]

Apr 7, 2009 11:27:14 GMT -5 northwest said:

However, I suggest that you look through the FAQs at the top of this board, and also read the Search101 message. You'll find many answers to your questions, but not necessarily all of them. I suggest that you then write a new query with the questions that still need answering after you've done your search.

Ditto to what JH, PA, & NW said. We made the FAQ and Search Function explanation for a reason, please use them before asking questions. I'm sure folks on this board will be happy to fill in the gaps if you have any unanswer questions remaining.

[jagghagg]

Apr 7, 2009 11:02:01 GMT -5 apppending said:

(5) I have been told if I work for 5 years my wife and I are
covered by health insurance for life. True?

No one is "set for life" for health insurance. You must, however, carry - and pay for - the federal health insurance you select for 5 years before you retire in order to qualify yourself to continue to pay the federal premiums and have the same health insurance in your retirement.

Apr 7, 2009 11:16:58 GMT -5 notherapp said:

Another question from a quasi-outsider (an attorney with another federal agency):

As a GS-er who is making more than the minimum paid an ALJ, does SSA pay at least as much or at least as much plus x% or $x? Would be nice to know.

Hey, NotherApp--- take a look at the thread about at page 5 - entitled "Notification to ALJ is NOT an Interview." We had a discussion about pay there. (And elsewhere....) One of the things I said was: "Here is your basic rate of pay without locality.

www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/pdf/alj.pdf


Where you start on the scale depends on if you are already a federal employee. If you are coming in from the outside, and are in private practice, they will ask you to submit your income for the last couple of years; if you are a state employee, they will ask for your last pay stub so they can see your base pay; same for if you are a fed. Then - for those who have a set salary, you will be offered a position at the closest level/rate without going UNDER it. For those who are in private practice, it is a little more difficult, but the same principle applies - they will determine what your "salary" was and offer you a position - if they offer you a position - as close to what you are making without going under it. "

Most who are in the federal service already are usually - and I do mean "usually," because pay is set by the agency - set at the step most close to their current base pay (without locality) without going below it. So if, for example, you are earining at the GS-15, Step 7 level, you are above the AL-3B, but just below the AL-3C, so you would probably be set at the 3C level.

[k]

Apr 7, 2009 11:02:01 GMT -5 apppending said:

(1) How many days a week do you work? Can you do 4
10 hour days? How about 3 12's?

You can work 4 10 hour days or the 5-4-9 schedule. You do not have the option to work 3 12s.

(2) Are there set work hours? Does anyone care when you arrive
and leave as long as your cranking out cases?

The times of arrival and departure are relatively flexible within the 6:30 am to 6pm band, but you have to sign in and out in order to fulfill your obligation to work 40 hours per week. In that sense, yes, people care when you arrive and leave.

(3) Can you work a day from home?

After 12 months, but the Agency is reportedly trying to do away with that.

(4) What is the REAL starting pay? I have seen differences of
more than 10K.

It depends on where you work. All new ALJs have the same BASE pay, but you must add your LOCALITY pay to the BASE pay to determine your salary.

(6) How much travel for meetings/training etc is there on
average per year? I am asking about non-hearing related
travel.

Approximatley 1-2 weeks for non-hearing related matters (conferences, supplemental training). There is a great deal of variation among ODARs in terms of hearing-related travel. Some ALJs very rarely travel and others are expected to travel practically every month.

(7) How much in-house training do experienced ALJ's receive a
year? I'm not talking about new hire training.

By "in-house training" do you mean "mentoring?" It depends on the ODAR. Some mentors are very hands-on. Other new ALJs have never even spoken to their mentors.

(8) Do ALJ's write any of their own decisions, or are they too
busy? Is there pressure either way about writing your own
decisions?

New judges are expected to write 26 of their own decisions. The 26 must consist of some favorables, some unfavorables and some overpayment/other decisions. Some HOCALJs expect new ALJs to comply with this requirement and others do not.

[globalpanda]

Apr 7, 2009 11:12:40 GMT -5 @jagghagg said:

Wow, did you even LOOK through some of these threads ?

Apr 7, 2009 11:23:58 GMT -5 privateatty said:

Apr 7, 2009 11:12:40 GMT -5 @jagghagg said:

Wow, did you even LOOK through some of these threads ?

Ditto.

How 'bout a little kindness and civility? Every one starts out as a newbie, is working on a learning curve, and may some day occupy the office next to the one you are trying for...

[jagghagg]

Apr 7, 2009 22:12:27 GMT -5 @globalpanda said:

How 'bout a little kindness and civility?

Hell, honey, I would have asked the same question - and in the same way - had I been face-to-face. ;D Sorta the same smack I got from ALJ Discussion when I first came on the boards and did the same thing. And, there are three threads of FAQs at the very beginning of the boards for this exact situation. (Threads, I might add, that were not present when I bumbled onto the boards...)

Nonetheless, "k" took pity and answered each and every question, saving apppending the trouble of finding the answers to his/her questions all on their own.

"It's 'Shake-n-Bake' and ah helped....."

[ALJD]

Apr 8, 2009 5:32:20 GMT -5 @jagghagg said:

Sorta the same smack I got from ALJ Discussion when I first came on the boards and did the same thing.

Ah. You still remember that? But think about how much you learned since 2007. ;D

saving apppending the trouble of finding the answers to his/her questions all on their own.

No kidding.

Sometimes, is it too much to ask seasoned attorneys/ALJ candidates to exercise some initiative and do some research on their own instead of expecting to be hand fed basic information that's readily available on this board (if they can be bothered to do a little digging)? We're here to be informative and exchange information, but still... (goes off to the corner to act like a grouchy old-timer).

[doctorwho]

Apr 8, 2009 6:03:52 GMT -5 ALJD said:

Apr 8, 2009 5:32:20 GMT -5 @jagghagg said:

Sorta the same smack I got from ALJ Discussion when I first came on the boards and did the same thing.

Ah. You still remember that? But think about how much you learned since 2007. ;D

Hmmm, think of how much she's taught as well.

[jagghagg]

Apr 8, 2009 22:35:00 GMT -5 @doctorwho said:

Hmmm, think of how much she's taught as well.

Awwww, Doc!

[ALJD]

Apr 8, 2009 22:35:00 GMT -5 @doctorwho said:

Hmmm, think of how much she's taught as well.

Touche. ;D

[apppending]

Sorry I couldn't respond to this thread yesterday, I was in hearings.

First, a sincere thanks to the folks who posted answers. The info was helpful, especially the info about work hours. I can guarantee I am not the only one with these type of questions, but most are afraid to ask.

Now, to those who inferred I was too stupid or lazy to read the earlier threads, I hope you are not so quick to pull the trigger on a claimant in a hearing as you are on this board. Let us take the straight forward question, what does a starting ALJ make? I should go to earlier threads for this answer, correct?

In the thread - ALJ Hiring FAQ Part 2 - I am told

Pay & Benefits

How much do ALJs get paid?

For 2009, see OPM Salary Table here. This includes locality pay and is the total sum an ALJ gets paid per rank and geography. Per APA, ALJs get a salary and that's it. No bonuses or OT (but credit hours can be earned).

Then in "Notification to ALJ is NOT an Interview" we are told....

"Where you start on the scale depends on if you are already a federal employee. If you are coming in from the outside, and are in private practice, they will ask you to submit your income for the last couple of years; if you are a state employee, they will ask for your last pay stub so they can see your base pay; same for if you are a fed. Then - for those who have a set salary, you will be offered a position at the closest level/rate without going UNDER it. For those who are in private practice, it is a little more difficult, but the same principle applies - they will determine what your "salary" was and offer you a position - if they offer you a position - as close to what you are making without going under it. "

Most who are in the federal service already are usually - and I do mean "usually," because pay is set by the agency - set at the step most close to their current base pay (without locality) without going below it. So if, for example, you are earining at the GS-15, Step 7 level, you are above the AL-3B, but just below the AL-3C, so you would probably be set at the 3C level. "

And in this thread.....

It depends on where you work. All new ALJs have the same BASE pay, but you must add your LOCALITY pay to the BASE pay to determine your salary

So, which is it? Which thread do I believe? Coming from private practice am I going to have to negotiate my salary? or do all ALJ's have the same base pay? or can I get base pay plus if I made more than the starting ALJ pay? Do you understand why this is confusing? There are other examples but I hope I made my point. Anyway, you are keeping questions down when you do this. A simple "what don't you understand" would have been nice. Oh well, good luck and have a great Easter/Passover......

[ALJD]

Apr 9, 2009 12:33:20 GMT -5 apppending said:

Now, to those who inferred I was too stupid or lazy to read the earlier threads, I hope you are not so quick to pull the trigger on a claimant in a hearing as you are on this board. Let us take the straight forward question, what does a starting ALJ make? I should go to earlier threads for this answer, correct?

If your first post was as through and thoughtful as this one (and shows you did your due diligence), I'm sure all of us would have just answered the question(s) straight up.

The question about ALJ pay is a easy one. The FAQ pay chart is correct. And as a private practioner, feel free to try and negotiate with ODAR if you get an offer, and you just might be the one to get lucky. However, most ex-private practioners I know started at the bottom of the ALJ pay scale (ALJ-3A). I'll update the FAQs on this point. Thanks and good luck.

[jagghagg]

Apr 9, 2009 12:33:20 GMT -5 apppending said:

So, which is it? Which thread do I believe? Coming from private practice am I going to have to negotiate my salary? or do all ALJ's have the same base pay? or can I get base pay plus if I made more than the starting ALJ pay? Do you understand why this is confusing? There are other examples but I hope I made my point. Anyway, you are keeping questions down when you do this. A simple "what don't you understand" would have been nice.

Well, Appp, you believe both because both are correct. And a quick Google search would have provided you with that answer if you didn't find it in the thread. (However, it IS in the thread because I am pretty sure I put it there.) A google search of "ALJ Salary 2009" will give you the basic rate of pay for an ALJ in the federal service:

www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/html/alj.asp

Throw "locality pay" into your search and you will eventually get (if you drill down):

www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/html/alj_loc.asp

There you have your hard, fast figures, both base pay and locality, which have been discussed on these boards until we are all blue in the face.

When you then get into "but what about meeeeeeeeeeeee?" and all the "coming in from outside federal service" is when you have to read the questions and answers back and forth. Since you have quoted me in your posting, I will reiterate: it depends. The Agency will set your pay coming in from the outside based on the information and documentation you are going to provide them. If you earn a salary, then that will be the basis from which they proceed. If your income fluxuates, then you may have to argue a median number over a couple of years. And, as others have pointed out, the agency can - and has - simply said, "Hey, you are new at this federal service stuff, you are starting at the bottom."

As ALJDiscussion notes, many of your questions have been discussed at length before on these boards and we were just kinda hoping you'd go look there first as it did not appear you had done so. (As I stated, when I first jumped on the boards, I didn't do my homework first. Bad 'hagg! Bad 'hagg!)

[regalzr7]

I was hired from private practice. My friend was hired after many years of federal service. I started at the base alj salary plus locality pay. My friend started at a hire rate based on his former federal salary. My friend tells me though, that when increase in pay kicks in later this year, he will not get as big an increase as I will.

[globalpanda]

Apr 8, 2009 5:32:20 GMT -5 @jagghagg said:

Apr 7, 2009 22:12:27 GMT -5 @globalpanda said:

How 'bout a little kindness and civility?

Hell, honey, I would have asked the same question - and in the same way - had I been face-to-face. ;D Sorta the same smack I got from ALJ Discussion when I first came on the boards and did the same thing. And, there are three threads of FAQs at the very beginning of the boards for this exact situation. (Threads, I might add, that were not present when I bumbled onto the boards...)

First, I am NOT your "honey".

Second, SSA as an agency prizes courtesy and civility, not only in our interactions with the public, but in how we treat each other. In fact we place such a high value on it that we make it an element of everyone's job description, from the most junior mail clerk, right up to those folks in the SES. Further, we value cooperation, teamwork and the willingness to extend a helping hand to those who need it most. How you treat the least of your brethren reflects not only on you, it also reflects on the rest of us.

If you have not yet figured this out about the culture of the Administration then perhaps "not where I want to be" is the right spot for you.

[jagghagg]

Ewwww!
Smack Down! I done be "smote" yet again. Well, it IS too bad vocal nuance is lost on the boards and that skins can be this thin. Apppparently it sets the stage for insult to be taken when none is intended. God bless emoticons!