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Post by nonamouse on Apr 24, 2009 17:34:31 GMT -5
"Free military housing"? What is that? In 12+ years of active duty, the only "free military housing" I had was made of canvas. Personnel rotation among the top people changes the dynamic of a unit, an institution, an office. Judges do not make an office bad or good, but "new" judges and management personnel in an office give the rank and file a chance to start over. The most effective "agencies" in government are the active duty military departments. They move people around all the time. The recent conflicts showed, sadly, that the reserves and national guard, where there is very little movement, were not nearly as effective (check out the saga of the 48th Brigade during Bush War I). Some of you comprehend; the rest can go back to the pity party. I was an AF brat with an enlisted man as my father, so most of my childhood was spent in "free" base quarters. The family quarters were assigned as available based on rank and family size. If we lived off base we would have received a "quarters allowance" that did not cover even a cheap apartment. On base, we got no allowance but the family housing was decent and we did not have to worry about trying to sell a house every few years. The AF does not shove families into tents, so you must have served in another branch or had no dependents. I have no idea what you mean by "pity party." Was that comment for me or was it just another unpleasant shot into the board as a whole? I'm happy as an ALJ in a city where I plan to work until I drop dead or retire, so perhaps you are mixing me up with one of your feuding buddies on this board.
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Post by morgullord on Apr 24, 2009 18:00:44 GMT -5
Nonamouse--I sent you a pm.
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Post by roggenbier on Apr 24, 2009 19:50:14 GMT -5
I see my previous message has sparked a discussion. I meant no moral generalization. My personal considerations are as valid for me as they are not valid for others. I judge not the reasons of others.
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Post by tallgreenfrog on Apr 25, 2009 0:30:00 GMT -5
All of this premature stone-throwing is fascinating.
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Post by ruonthelist on Apr 27, 2009 18:49:54 GMT -5
Could you give us an idea of the cities that the ALJs declined? I've gone through the 4/15 transfer list and found these cities to which one or more ALJs declined offers this year. Caveat: This does not necessarily correlate with where there will be openings. To illustrate, say that Judges A, B, C, D, and E were on the list for a city. The agency offered it to A, and B, who declined, and to C, who accepted. What I would see on the April list would be D, E, A, and B. The current list is a snapshot that doesn't show that Judge C was ever on the list for that city, or has transferred there. Anyway, FWIW, here is the list: Providence White Plains Baltimore Charlottesville Dover Norfolk Roanoke Seven Fields Greenville Hattiesburg Jacksonville Nashville Orlando Raleigh Dayton Oakbrook Albuquerque Fort Worth Houston DT Creve Coeur St Louis West Des Moines Denver LA West San Jose Eugene Portland Seattle
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Post by barkley on Apr 28, 2009 8:13:24 GMT -5
RU - answer me this. I had understood that the Agency only had to offer a slot in City X to the first person on the list. As a matter of practice, will they offer it to Person B if Person A turns it down? Or does that free the city up for a new person off the cert? Or does one find a mixture of both, depending who is on which list?
Just curious. What will be will be.
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Post by aljsouth on Apr 28, 2009 8:17:26 GMT -5
RU - answer me this. I had understood that the Agency only had to offer a slot in City X to the first person on the list. As a matter of practice, will they offer it to Person B if Person A turns it down? Or does that free the city up for a new person off the cert? Or does one find a mixture of both, depending who is on which list? Just curious. What will be will be. Former CALJ Washington agreed to go down the list, not just offer the first person. Up to this point the agency has kept this policy. I don't know about this cert. I assume they have done so since I saw declinations by more than one judge to certain sites.
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Post by Legal Beagle on Apr 28, 2009 8:57:05 GMT -5
I would hope that if the idea is to get as many new judges signed up, in class, and back in the saddle, then offers to the second or third person for the city would be done. Of course, that also implies that the first offers will go out soon, so that the second wave of declination spots, as it were, could follow in time to fill up both 75 member classes.
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Post by valkyrie on Apr 28, 2009 9:11:26 GMT -5
I think ODAR thinks the WHO is more important than the HOW MANY. After candidate A rejects an offer for city X, there may be more attractive candidates in the remaining cert-reachable register than candidates B and C. This is another one of ODAR's legal methods of finessing the system.
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Post by privateatty on Apr 28, 2009 10:38:49 GMT -5
If I've got 13 on ruonthelist's list (question is does he/she makes lists at home?), what are my chances? I really don't understand her/his post other than this list is a moving target and I've read it ten times. BTW, I agree with val's post above. Finally, is everybody sorta feeling like Sally Fields now, "you like me" ? Or put another way, did my interview REALLY go well or am I on a river in North Africa?
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Post by Legal Beagle on Apr 28, 2009 10:47:39 GMT -5
I have 12 on the non-transferred list, which may be an addition to the slots already on the cert, or just ones not taken off by a transfer. Anyway, I'm either there with you on the boat (just call me Cleopatra), or pretending I am in "A Chorus Line," singing "I hope I get it" and the theme song, "One Singular Sensation."
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Post by aljsouth on Apr 28, 2009 11:05:28 GMT -5
I would hope that if the idea is to get as many new judges signed up, in class, and back in the saddle, then offers to the second or third person for the city would be done. Of course, that also implies that the first offers will go out soon, so that the second wave of declination spots, as it were, could follow in time to fill up both 75 member classes. Lately, ODAR has sorted the candidates per available slot. Some sites have more than one slot. The agency, using who knows what voodoo, picks a Name for each ALJ Slot it plans to fill. The Names are contacted, calls, email, whatever. If a Name declines a slot, then that slot remains vacant and is NOT filled on this round of hires. They have NOT been going down a list to other names. ODAR could go down lists and select another name. But given the complexity of sorting candidates and having multiple staff members calling candidates, it has chosen to fill any empty slots on the next cert. ODAR can certainly do this as well. I have seen this process several times over the last couple of years. Could ODAR change its pattern? Sure. But with the large number of hires being made the method used over the last couple of years is more manageable. It appears there will be more hires in September that will backfill empty slots left from this round of hires and for other vacancies.
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Post by Propmaster on Apr 28, 2009 11:58:30 GMT -5
If I've got 13 on ruonthelist's list (question is does he/she makes lists at home?), what are my chances? I really don't understand her/his post other than this list is a moving target and I've read it ten times... This list probably does not affect your chances. The most likely impact of this list is that some slots possibly were not closed by a transfer. If they were not closed by a transfer, there is no change. There was always a chance that some slots would close, and some might have. What does a closure mean to you (and me)? You know that you are 1/3 of one city worth of potential candidates on the cert. If you had none on the list or one on the list or all of the list, your chances depend on when ODAR gets to the first city you have agreed to go to and what your score is compared to others. If your score is very high, it matters little whether they are selecting 155 or 100 ALJ's, you will likely be looked at up to three times and either selected or not. If your score is middling, you might get zero or only one chance depending on your geographical preferences. Each city removed minimally reduces your chances, but the chances of being on the relevant cusp are small. If your score is low (bottom 30% of cert), extra cities could theoretically help you (primarily if ODAR is avoiding a LOT of people from the last two certs), so you would hate to see some removed - but it will likely not be enough to matter.
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Post by noah on Apr 28, 2009 22:25:48 GMT -5
You pose the question "What are my chances" privateatty
If it is God's Will that you get a judgeship, your chances are 100%.
If it is not God's Will that you get a judgeship, your chances are 0%.
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Post by noah on Apr 28, 2009 22:30:33 GMT -5
In other words, seek Wisdom from God per James 1:5.
James.1 [1] James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greeting. [2] Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials, [3] for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. [4] And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. [5] If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. [6] But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. [7,8] For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 7:35:17 GMT -5
You pose the question "What are my chances" privateatty If it is God's Will that you get a judgeship, your chances are 100%. If it is not God's Will that you get a judgeship, your chances are 0%. With all due respect to privateatty, the Almighty may have more pressing demands upon his attention in the coming weeks than privateatty's career development. Therefore, may I commend the word s of the preacher to everyone's reading: "I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all." The Devil can quote scripture to suit his purpose.
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Post by morgullord on Apr 29, 2009 8:38:42 GMT -5
In'shallah...
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Post by ruonthelist on May 2, 2009 10:31:56 GMT -5
If I've got 13 on ruonthelist's list (question is does he/she makes lists at home?), what are my chances? I really don't understand her/his post other than this list is a moving target and I've read it ten times? privateatty: I'm sorry if it was confusing. I was trying to answer okeydokey's question as best I could. The information that can be obtained from the transfer list is pretty limited, but I try to provide what information I can glean from it. And to answer your parenthetical question, yes I do sort of make lists at home. The version of the list that the agency provides, and the union puts on its website, is not a searchable data base. It is a printout, so to answer specific questions I have to go through the list manually, and I usually do that in the evening after work. I'm happy to answer questions about the transfer list, either on the board or by private message, but a lot of information that candidates would like to have is not obtainable from the printout. Also, Barkley: I'm sorry that I didn't answer your question above. I have been travelling with limited internet access this week. However, my answer would have been the same as aljsouth's.
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Post by privateatty on May 2, 2009 11:48:48 GMT -5
If I've got 13 on ruonthelist's list (question is does he/she makes lists at home?), what are my chances? I really don't understand her/his post other than this list is a moving target and I've read it ten times? privateatty: I'm sorry if it was confusing. I was trying to answer okeydokey's question as best I could. The information that can be obtained from the transfer list is pretty limited, but I try to provide what information I can glean from it. And to answer your parenthetical question, yes I do sort of make lists at home. The version of the list that the agency provides, and the union puts on its website, is not a searchable data base. It is a printout, so to answer specific questions I have to go through the list manually, and I usually do that in the evening after work. I'm happy to answer questions about the transfer list, either on the board or by private message, but a lot of information that candidates would like to have is not obtainable from the printout. Also, Barkley: I'm sorry that I didn't answer your question above. I have been travelling with limited internet access this week. However, my answer would have been the same as aljsouth's. Thanks ru. I appreciate you getting back to me and us. Between you and the ever venerable aljsouth, y'all have answered my questions, even the impertinent one. ;D
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