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Post by pm on Apr 22, 2009 18:59:13 GMT -5
As has already been mentioned, it appears that some ALJs may have chosen to decline transfer opportunities because of the economy. From this article it appears that many other Americans have adopted that position also. "Americans changed residences less often last year than at any time since the Census Bureau began keeping track in 1948, the latest sign of how the recession and falling house prices are keeping more people in place. "We are normally thought of as a country on the move, but now all levels of migration have almost come to standstill," said William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank. "People are just staying put." " Rest of article at: online.wsj.com/article/SB124042434548044425.htmlIt's unfortunate, but I wonder how many of us will decline offers next month for the same reason? |
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Post by Legal Beagle on Apr 22, 2009 19:10:03 GMT -5
For those that do, let's hope that ODAR goes ahead and gives the offer to the next in line, without going through all this angst over and over again.
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Post by privateatty on Apr 22, 2009 20:30:09 GMT -5
For those that do, let's hope that ODAR goes ahead and gives the offer to the next in line, without going through all this angst over and over again. Every declination is a future acceptance by someone else.  My money is on Puzzle Palace reaching their goals in # of ALJs hired. |
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Post by barkley on Apr 22, 2009 20:39:13 GMT -5
It's unfortunate, but I wonder how many of us will decline offers next month for the same reason? I would hope that, as long and drawn out as this process has been, when folks got their geo pref form they gave some thought into whether they are REALLY willing to move. Alot of needless stress to interview for a job one does not intend to take. If fact, if there is anyone out there who is going to decline an offer in one of the cities I have down, please call and let them know now!! ;) |
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Post by Legal Beagle on Apr 22, 2009 20:46:05 GMT -5
[quote author=barkley board=general thread=924 post=14683 time=1240450753 if there is anyone out there who is going to decline an offer in one of the cities I have down, please call and let them know now!! ;)[/quote]
AMEN!!!
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Post by pm on Apr 22, 2009 20:59:25 GMT -5
It's unfortunate, but I wonder how many of us will decline offers next month for the same reason? I would hope that, as long and drawn out as this process has been, when folks got their geo pref form they gave some thought into whether they are REALLY willing to move. Alot of needless stress to interview for a job one does not intend to take. If fact, if there is anyone out there who is going to decline an offer in one of the cities I have down, please call and let them know now!! ;) One problem is that, depending on where you live, housing prices just keep going down. That's going to impact some people to an extent they did not expect when they changed geo preferences last time. Another problem is that while some people (many?) have listed a bunch of cities they would love to transfer to, they have also listed a handful that were marginal. If you can't sell your house and/or don't have enough money to move while continuing to pay the old mortgage, an offer for a position in a marginal city may result in a declination. |
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Post by jennifer on Apr 23, 2009 6:42:46 GMT -5
Does anyone know what ODAR does if the selectee declines? I bet they wait till the next certificate.
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Post by chieftain on Apr 23, 2009 6:46:37 GMT -5
I agree with Jennifer. But based on the proposed training schedules, I bet that the next cert follows right on the heels of this one.
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Post by valkyrie on Apr 23, 2009 9:15:03 GMT -5
I believe that is one of the purposes of the second cert, to provide a second chance to offer slots that got turned down. One would think that they would just offer the slot to one of the other two candidates in that group of three, but, who knows?
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Post by chieftain on Apr 23, 2009 9:26:18 GMT -5
The problem with offering the declined slot to another of the three candidates is that either or both of them may have been offered slots for different cities. Then a fresh group of 3 candidates needs to be determined. From the agency's perspective, it is easier to reshuffle the deck and try again on another cert.
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Post by Legal Beagle on Apr 23, 2009 9:41:42 GMT -5
But what if they take themselves out of the running before the selection? Same result as if there was a declination?
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Post by chieftain on Apr 23, 2009 9:58:01 GMT -5
In that case, I think it depends on the timing of the candidate's withdrawal and how much it would affect other selections. But what do I know? My judgment is clouded by the ringing of Uilleann pipes in my ears.
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Post by ruonthelist on Apr 23, 2009 19:12:44 GMT -5
As has already been mentioned, it appears that some ALJs may have chosen to decline transfer opportunities because of the economy. The most recent AALJ transfer register (dated 4/15) bears that out. There were, by my count, fifty transfer offers declined in this round. I don't have old registers to compare it to, but I suspect that that is a record. Incidentally, the declination dates start in January and run until April 2, so the agency spent quite a while working the list. CLARIFICATION: When I first posted this I should have explained that this does not mean that fifty judges declined offers. Some judges declined offers to more than one city, so the actual number of judges who declined moves is lower than the number of declinations. I suspect that the number of judges who declined moves this hiring cycle is a record, but I can't verify that without earlier transfer request lists that are no longer available. |
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Post by okeydokey on Apr 23, 2009 20:19:36 GMT -5
Could you give us an idea of the cities that the ALJs declined? A rough guess might be helpful.
Thanks.
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Post by noah on Apr 23, 2009 22:50:02 GMT -5
A lot of the problems would be solved if applicants would simply do what they say they are going to do, and go were they say they are willing to go. Your word is your bond. Let your yea mean yea and your nay mean nay.
If one cannot do that, then perhaps one should not be a judge.
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Post by pm on Apr 23, 2009 23:00:43 GMT -5
People said they were willing to consider a position in certain areas, if offered. No one made any promise to accept any offer.
In case you missed it, a few things have changed in the last year. The personal economic situations of millions of families have changed significantly. People who had $100,000 in home equity a year ago now have nothing AND they cannot sell their home.
If you cannot understand these complexities of modern life, perhaps you should not be a judge.
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Post by noah on Apr 23, 2009 23:03:02 GMT -5
Where are the civility police when you need 'em?
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Post by barkley on Apr 24, 2009 4:44:51 GMT -5
People said they were willing to consider a position in certain areas, if offered. No one made any promise to accept any offer. In case you missed it, a few things have changed in the last year. The personal economic situations of millions of families have changed significantly. People who had $100,000 in home equity a year ago now have nothing AND they cannot sell their home. If you cannot understand these complexities of modern life, perhaps you should not be a judge. You have posted this several places. I think I am missing something. I understand that since we file our initial applicaitons many housing markets have changed. However, a month ago, we all submitted forms putting little black "X" marks next to cities we said we would like to move to. I think that Noah is suggesting that folks should have looked at their economic and personal circumstances last month and really thought about whether they were willing and/or able to move before filing their updated geo pref list with SSA. If one had been thoughtful about the process then, it will be easy to accept offers once made. |
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Post by roggenbier on Apr 24, 2009 7:39:11 GMT -5
I scrutinized every location on the cert on a map; some I liked better than others, but all I checked were acceptable.
I gave my word to the SSA that I would go to the locations I marked if they accepted me in the ALJ Corps. I will keep my word.
If I must move, I shall. Let's go.
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Post by valkyrie on Apr 24, 2009 8:37:50 GMT -5
Yes, we all knowingly checked the little GAL boxes for glamorous places like Flint Michigan, Fargo ND, Montgomery AL, Paducah KY, Huntington WV, etc. While some people may actually want to go to these places for various reasons, I think most only listed those places to increase their chances of getting an offer. These decisions benefit the candidates and ODAR. If ODAR actually told everyone that they would, in fact, be stuck in their offered location for a minimum of 10 years, they could very well have a minimal pool of candidates, if any for some of these less desirable cities. Flint Michigan is a perfect example because everyone already knows that it is close to, if not already, a dying city. It has reached a point that regardless of a candidate's cultural, regional, or aesthetic preferences, it does not make a lot of sense for an individual to make any kind of personal investment in Flint from a career, family, or property standpoint, until there is some future resolution of its economic turmoil. How else is ODAR going to get people to select Flint as an option, unless they continue to dangle a reasonable transfer option?
I certainly understand and respect the sense of honor and commitment stated by some of the previous posters on this thread, but lets not forget that ODAR does benefit from the transfer system, and I'm sure that Flint is happy to get an ALJ for only a few years rather than none. Worse yet, it could be permanently stuck with the dregs of the register.
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