Here's something new to think about.....

[conanthebarbarian]

Conan remembers Rocky and Bullwinkle. Conan chose all locations but would like to be as close to Fenway Park as possible.

[texasatty]

Two weeks prior to the scores coming out, I attempted to add a geographic preference. OPM refused, explaining I could not modify my geographic preferences until the next open season. It sounds like OPM will have little tolerance to adjust our preferences beyond that provided for by the rules. Hopefully SSA will be more accomodating.

[texasatty]

Pixie, Are you suggesting that an applicant is only listed on one geographic preference, the one in which he or she has his or her highest ranking? If so, and if not selected for that opening, how can the applicant be considered for other geographic preferences? Do the ranking lists adjust to include high scorers who were not chosen in other locales? I must be missing something.

[jagghagg]

chris said:

That is a very good point. If ODAR likes you but is struggling with whether they like you enough to give you a city you listed over someone else who listed the same city, then they give you the offer and you turn down that city, they may not exert as much effort to place you elsewhere.

Well, so much for the "one-free-turn-down" rule.

[Pixie]

texasatty said:

Pixie, Are you suggesting that an applicant is only listed on one geographic preference, the one in which he or she has his or her highest ranking? If so, and if not selected for that opening, how can the applicant be considered for other geographic preferences? Do the ranking lists adjust to include high scorers who were not chosen in other locales? I must be missing something.

I can tell that I have totally confused you. In my example above, you first have to know where we are in the process. I was talking about a situation where the certificate has been received by SSA, the final interviews in Falls Church are finished, the selections have made for the various locations, are marked in order of preference, and the list has been given to the personnel office to have the telephone calls made extending the offers.

The "ranking" is that ranking given by Falls Church and has nothing to do with the scores. It is simply the order in which the appointing authority wishes to appoint.

That is where my example starts--right at the end of the selection process. Now, with that in mind, read it again and see if it is more understandable.

Keep in mind that once a candidate gets to SSA as one of the top three for a location, the order of the scores makes no difference. SSA is free to pick any one of the top three, or pick none of the three. This is true unless a veteran's preference has the highest score or the second highest score for a location. In order to drop below the veteran, and select a non veteran, SSA must obtain approval from OPM, based on written justification. Pix.

[cybear]

Pixie,

'Sorry to be so obtuse; however, I too, am one of the apparently not so select few contacted about a slot at either Irvine or Miami by the folks at Medicare Hearings and Appeals. I'm not sure at this point how to respond to the message I received. I don't want to stub my toe in dealing with OPM based upon incorrect assumptions.

My questions are as follows:

1. Does a declination to be interviewed differ from a declination of an actual job offer or are the two clinically indistinguishable for OPM purposes?

2. Is whether or not one originally listed either or both of these locations relevant in that assessment if one nonetheless is offered and then declines either an interview or job offer?

3. Am I fairly to interpret your post to suggest that a declination of employment with Medicare Hearings and Appeals has no effect on one's possibilities with SSA at this stage of SSA's hiring process?

Many thanks!

[chris]

Cybear, did you list Miami and Irvine as acceptable cities?

[cybear]

I did.

[chris]

Amporci posted this earlier:

"From the Vacancy Announcement:

If you decline consideration for a geographical location for which you previously indicated availability, you will be removed from further consideration for that location.

Further, as noted in the Receiving Employment Consideration section, if you decline two (2) job offers, your name will be suspended from the register for one (1) year or until the register is terminated, whichever occurs first."

The way I read this is, if you decline consideration (which might be either an offer or an interview), you will be removed from further consideration for that location.

If you decline two job offers you are suspended from the register.

I know your questions are for Pixie but she's at dinner so I'll give it a try:

1. yes, they are different
2. yes it makes a difference what cities you listed because you can't be dinged for declining a city you didn't list
3. a declination of employment with Medicare could get you removed from consideration for a city and 2 declinations of offers can get you suspended from the register so yes, your interactions with Medicare can have an impact on your future with SSA.

[Pixie]

Just back from dinner and checked in to see what is going on. I agree with what Chris posted above. It's late, I'm too tired to do much analysis, but what he says sounds good to be so close to midnight.

Tomorrow will be a fresh day. Pix.

[aljsouth]

Look, it seems to me all Pixie is saying is that if you turn down an offer from ODAR don't expect to be selected for another site during this round of selections. ODAR makes its offer and if you decline they move on. They don't reshuffle the offers being made by multiple staff to suit you.

Let me add that I believe SSA will select the entire 150 during the same selection process, but have two start times with one group going to training in March or April. Budget is the wild card in the process.

[counselor95]

RE: whether a declination to be interviewed differs from a declination of a job offer

We're trying to parse the meaning of the Vacancy Announcement like the attorneys we are, but I wouldn't bet the farm that the Vacancy Announcement was written by an attorney because it is a bit imprecise.

If I had gotten a call, I would assume a declination of either would count against me (assuming I had listed that location). It appears this process is not applicant-friendly.

[Pixie]

aljsouth said:

Look, it seems to me all Pixie is saying is that if you turn down an offer from ODAR don't expect to be selected for another site during this round of selections. ODAR makes its offer and if you decline they move on. They don't reshuffle the offers being made by multiple staff to suit you.

Yes, that is exactly what I was saying. Thank you ALJSouth.

BTW, for those of you interested in Kentucky, there is a position in Middlesboro that will be filled. Not much there, but it is a good way to get a start. If you get an offer, don't turn it down. Pix.

[aljsouth]

pixie said:

aljsouth said:

Look, it seems to me all Pixie is saying is that if you turn down an offer from ODAR don't expect to be selected for another site during this round of selections. ODAR makes its offer and if you decline they move on. They don't reshuffle the offers being made by multiple staff to suit you.

Yes, that is exactly what I was saying. Thank you ALJSouth.

BTW, for those of you interested in Kentucky, there is a position in Middlesboro that will be filled. Not much there, but it is a good way to get a start. If you get an offer, don't turn it down. Pix.

Let me echo Pixie on this. If you get an offer for a place you actually selected, take it. The opportunity may never come around again.

[jagghagg]

aljsouth said:

pixie said:

If you get an offer for a place you actually selected, take it. The opportunity may never come around again.

So, for the purposes of the "one-free-turn-down-rule" there is a difference between declining an interview and declining an offer ?

[chris]

I think people are confusing two different concepts, the legal and the practical.

Legally, things seem fairly clear:

"If you decline consideration for a geographical
location for which you previously indicated availability, you will be
removed from further consideration for that location. "

The only issue raised by that sentence is what constitutes "consideration." I suspect that declining either an interview or an offer is declining consideration, so you can decline once and the only legal penalty is that you will no longer be considered for that location.

With respect to actual offers, "if you decline two (2) job offers, your
name will be suspended from the register for one (1) year or until the
register is terminated, whichever occurs first."

So the legal part of this seems fairly clear.

What has been discussed by Pixie and others recently is the PRACTICAL effect of declining an offer. If SSA offers you a position anywhere and you decline, you cannot expect them to exert any further effort trying to place you in the near future.

[counselor95]

chris said:

I think people are confusing two different concepts, the legal and the practical.

Legally, things seem fairly clear:

"If you decline consideration for a geographical
location for which you previously indicated availability, you will be
removed from further consideration for that location. "

The only issue raised by that sentence is what constitutes "consideration." I suspect that declining either an interview or an offer is declining consideration, so you can decline once and the only legal penalty is that you will no longer be considered for that location.

With respect to actual offers, "if you decline two (2) job offers, your
name will be suspended from the register for one (1) year or until the
register is terminated, whichever occurs first."

So the legal part of this seems fairly clear.

What has been discussed by Pixie and others recently is the PRACTICAL effect of declining an offer. If SSA offers you a position anywhere and you decline, you cannot expect them to exert any further effort trying to place you in the near future.

Your analysis is excellent! Just to add one thing -- this is an OPM register for entry-level ALJ positions, not a SSA register. So a response to OMHA counts re: locations/job offers.

But, hopefully, those being asked about locations they did not select won't have that count against them.

[texasatty]

Thank you Pixie, I understand completely.

[captjack]

Nothing North of the Mason Dixon Line. Except for Oregon and Seattle, WA. Would prefer State that doesn't have State Income Tax - like Texas, Florida, Washington, any others? But really do not want to move - but with my low score - would go anywhere if asked! (wishful thinking at this point)