ebb
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Post by ebb on Aug 30, 2013 17:57:55 GMT -5
Hey folks, For those who are taking the exam now, any idea as to when they check references? Do they even check references if you don't make it onto a cert? I'm just wondering when I should think about giving my references a heads up - if ever! Thanks!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 19:18:06 GMT -5
Hey folks, For those who are taking the exam now, any idea as to when they check references? Do they even check references if you don't make it onto a cert? I'm just wondering when I should think about giving my references a heads up - if ever! Thanks! Wait until you make the register and get on a certificate
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Post by privateatty on Aug 31, 2013 7:54:08 GMT -5
Hey folks, For those who are taking the exam now, any idea as to when they check references? Do they even check references if you don't make it onto a cert? I'm just wondering when I should think about giving my references a heads up - if ever! Thanks! Wait until you make the register and get on a certificate There are a few threads on this issue and yes, once you get on a Cert then you will have references checked. This is a job for Puzzle Palace that is contracted out to "professionals" whose instructions on what to record and look for have been the subject of some rather speculative, but interesting posts in years past. This process was an opportunity for me to graduate to Nexium from Pepcid.
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Post by trekker on Aug 31, 2013 10:37:47 GMT -5
It is not references that give me pause but rather the list of supervisors I have had who are well known for never calling anyone back -- if they are even called. Some of my supervisors are not on my reference list for the very reason that I know they don't call people back.
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Post by privateatty on Aug 31, 2013 15:20:39 GMT -5
It is not references that give me pause but rather the list of supervisors I have had who are well known for never calling anyone back -- if they are even called. Some of my supervisors are not on my reference list for the very reason that I know they don't call people back. trekker, this was a big chunk of concern in the past. The company or companies whom are employed by Puzzle Palace are instructed to call another reference if they don't get a call back. I remember that there was a bit of discussion on what is the threshold (2, 3, or 4 or whatever), and I strongly suspect this bunch will be all a twitter in the future regarding same. Not to mention those references who didn't get calls or didn't let you know that they did. So much to look forward to, eh?
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Post by JudgeRatty on Aug 31, 2013 15:39:56 GMT -5
I think I saw somewhere on this board a specific reference form SSA gives you to fill out with the names and contact information once you make a cert. It includes the HOD & HOCALJ if an insider.
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Post by 71stretch on Aug 31, 2013 15:50:55 GMT -5
I think I saw somewhere on this board a specific reference form SSA gives you to fill out with the names and contact information once you make a cert. It includes the HOD & HOCALJ if an insider. That's correct. There's a form on which you list work references for the last 10 years as well as three judicial references, three "adversarial" references (if you don't have those, such as if you are a state ALJ, you can provide other professional references) and three general professsional references who are familiar with your work, reputation in the community, etc.
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ebb
New Member
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Post by ebb on Aug 31, 2013 16:00:33 GMT -5
Thanks, all! I'm just confused by the references that we had to put on the original application - any idea if those people are ever called, or what the point of that was?
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Post by 71stretch on Aug 31, 2013 18:59:20 GMT -5
You have a choice whether to have them contact the current supervisor.
As far as the references on the original app, those don't get contacted by OPM (they weren't the last time) The references on the SSA paperwork are not all contacted, sometimes. But some of them always are.
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sxsw
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Post by sxsw on Aug 31, 2013 19:53:44 GMT -5
Admittedly, it is a bit of a blur now, but I don't recall providing references in the original application. Did I miss something?
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Post by JudgeRatty on Sept 1, 2013 13:17:21 GMT -5
Admittedly, it is a bit of a blur now, but I don't recall providing references in the original application. Did I miss something? No, there was not a place in particular to put references. I suppose folks could include them on their resume if so desired.
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 1, 2013 17:45:49 GMT -5
Admittedly, it is a bit of a blur now, but I don't recall providing references in the original application. Did I miss something? We did last time, but not this time around.
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Post by elmerfuddgantry on Sept 1, 2013 18:16:07 GMT -5
I think the confusion stems from the requirement to list supervisors on your resume, together with the requirement to list both presiding judge and opposing counsel in your list of significant cases. I think the question might be rephrased "Is OPM going to contact any of the supervisors listed on my resume or any of the judges and lawyers listed with my significant cases?"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2013 19:22:04 GMT -5
I think the confusion stems from the requirement to list supervisors on your resume, together with the requirement to list both presiding judge and opposing counsel in your list of significant cases. I think the question might be rephrased "Is OPM going to contact any of the supervisors listed on my resume or any of the judges and lawyers listed with my significant cases?" From the Job announcement: LISTING OF SIGNIFICANT LITIGATION AND/OR ADMINISTRATIVE LAW CASES (OPTIONAL): The case listing is optional. You may provide this information in support of your application by identifying specific examples of qualifying experience. You may use the case listing format provided below to cite and discuss up to six (6) of the most significant litigation and/or formal administrative law cases you have prepared, participated in, and/or reviewed. The case listing document should be uploaded as a separate document in the "Other" document type of your application. The cases will not be scored as part of the ALJ examination but may be used by hiring agencies in their selection process. The cases will be provided to hiring agencies with your résumé if your name is on the new ALJ register and is referred on a hiring certificate.The case listing format is as follows: 1.Title of case 2.Party represented 3.Regulatory body or court hearing the case 4.Brief statement of issue(s) involved 5.Your precise role or capacity 6.Final disposition of case 7.Dates between which your participation took place 8.Presiding officer/judge with contact information (i.e., name, title/position, email address (if possible), and phone number) 9.Opposing counsel (or counsel appearing in case if applicant served in a hearing officer/judicial position) with contact information (i.e., name, title/position, email address (if possible), and phone number)
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 1, 2013 19:46:57 GMT -5
I think the confusion stems from the requirement to list supervisors on your resume, together with the requirement to list both presiding judge and opposing counsel in your list of significant cases. I think the question might be rephrased "Is OPM going to contact any of the supervisors listed on my resume or any of the judges and lawyers listed with my significant cases?" And I think the answer to that question is no. As the post above states, that information isn't scored as part of the exam process, but is passed on to the hiring agency. That said, I don't see SSA's reference checking contractor following up on the cases. The supervisors, perhaps, but not the cases.
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Post by elmerfuddgantry on Sept 1, 2013 21:13:24 GMT -5
My opinion (for which I can cite no authority whatever) is that the lists may or may not overlap, depending on your relationships with prior supervisors. I have some supervisors on my resume I would include as professional references, others I would not.
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Post by hopefalj on Sept 1, 2013 21:16:05 GMT -5
And I think the answer to that question is no. As the post above states, that information isn't scored as part of the exam process, but is passed on to the hiring agency. That said, I don't see SSA's reference checking contractor following up on the cases. The supervisors, perhaps, but not the cases. I didn't fill out that optional information since it was not part of the alj decision and I probably did not have enough time. But, my question is: are the nine references inclusive of the supervisors from work history OR are they additional? For example, if I list 3 judges, 3 professional references, and 3 trial partners or internal clients from my last job, will that suffice or does it specifically ask for supervisors? Thanks. I'm not sure where you're getting the supervisor idea from. Observer stated you need 9 references: three judges, three adversarial attorneys, and three professional references. Past threads gave no indication of a need for supervisors. You apparently don't have to list supervisors if you can provide 9 other names to fill those spots. However, if you are an ODAR attorney, you can bet your supervisors will be contacted.
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 2, 2013 6:28:42 GMT -5
I didn't fill out that optional information since it was not part of the alj decision and I probably did not have enough time. But, my question is: are the nine references inclusive of the supervisors from work history OR are they additional? For example, if I list 3 judges, 3 professional references, and 3 trial partners or internal clients from my last job, will that suffice or does it specifically ask for supervisors? Thanks. I'm not sure where you're getting the supervisor idea from. Observer stated you need 9 references: three judges, three adversarial attorneys, and three professional references. Past threads gave no indication of a need for supervisors. You apparently don't have to list supervisors if you can provide 9 other names to fill those spots. However, if you are an ODAR attorney, you can bet your supervisors will be contacted. That same form SSA sends out where you give the nine references also asks for 10 years of work history. (That's a change from the first time I filled it out, when it asked for your entire work history since you passed the bar.) It asks for supervisor contact info, but lets you opt out of having your present supervisor contacted. Since my ten years of work history only included one job, I did use a supervisor from an earlier job as a professional reference.
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Post by privateatty on Sept 2, 2013 11:07:48 GMT -5
My opinion (for which I can cite no authority whatever) is that the lists may or may not overlap, depending on your relationships with prior supervisors. I have some supervisors on my resume I would include as professional references, others I would not. Most folks have some overlap. Again, OPM doesn't contact folks on the "front end", but SSA will contact your references. The OPM "back end" is the certification process that OPM must give the Agency that you are indeed worthy. Many of us couldn't believe that OPM were sending out investigators to talk to us, neighbors and references after we had been appointed, but reasoned it must be a budgetary thing. BTW, I think OPM takes a closer look at you after you have been appointed if you come from the private sector. Makes sense.
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 2, 2013 17:43:22 GMT -5
"That same form SSA sends out where you give the nine references also asks for 10 years of work history. (That's a change from the first time I filled it out, when it asked for your entire work history since you passed the bar.) It asks for supervisor contact info, but lets you opt out of having your present supervisor contacted." Thanks--that is what I wanted to know. I had a long term job before my current job and had sveral supervisors during that time. Does it ask for all or just one? It asks for one supervisor for each job, so pick one.
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