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Post by ALJD on Mar 21, 2014 17:40:07 GMT -5
Information forwarded by a forum regular who doesn't want to use his/her own handle: "ALJD, here's an e-mail that was forwarded to me from a friend. I thought you might find the new certificate process noted below to be of interest. Please share with the board as appropriate" * * * Dear Chief ALJ/Designee- The U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) is pleased to announce that effective today, a new Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) register has been established for Federal agency use in filling entry-level ALJ positions. This new register is based on the results of the examination process that applicants were required to complete under Job Opportunity Announcement Number: ALJ2013-847661, which was opened March 5, 2013 – March 15, 2013. As previously announced, the new register terminates and replaces the register established under the previous ALJ examinations (ALJ Vacancy Announcement 2007ALJ-134575, 2008ALJ-134575, and 2009ALJ-134575). Please be aware that going forward, we will issue an individual certificate from the ALJ register for each geographic location requested. Accordingly, if an agency is filling vacancies in multiple geographic locations at one time, a separate SF-39, Request for Referral of Eligibles, must be submitted for each individual location.We appreciate all of the assistance that you and your agency provided us during the examination development and administration process. Your input was invaluable and we are grateful for your continued support of the ALJ Program. * * * If the above e-mail is true, this new cert process might potentially upend most of our assumptions about the cert process from previous hiring cycles.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 17:42:02 GMT -5
Okay, the Cert I saw had the highest scorers at the top and descending in scoring order. So if the highest scorer had one city and that city was on the CERT he would go against the next two highest scorers that had that city on their GAL. One of those three, not necessarily the highest would be picked. The next high scorer, possibly the same one would be looked at for his second city along with the next two highest for that city. One would be picked. If not the highest scorer, they would look at his third picked city against two otehr highest one. If he wasn't picked, he COULD be three struck, depending on the desires of the Agency. I think the cities were in the order of number of people picking them on their GAL. If everyone listed Tampa and Tampa needed one Judge teh above wopuld apply. If the second most popular city was Chicago, and the highest scorer had that on his GAL, then the above would apply. They work down the list of top scorers and most picked cities. They have a large, very large spread sheet and they work down it and across, with the names of scorers going down the list and cities going across the top. In the one I saw, the highest scorer got three struck after three looks, and one that was down the list to 256 was eventually picked for a city after 11 or so looks or strikes.. It has been a few years, but this is what I remember. This would surprise me. Not that what you're saying isn't accurate because I don't know, but if I had to give my own guess, I would think they would hire in a manner that allowed them to reach as many of their highly recommended crew as possible. What I'm saying is if the agency loves sratty because her HOD and HOCALJ adore her, let's say, and starting the hiring in Buffalo allows ODAR to eventually reach sratty down the list through three strikes and hires while hiring in the most popular location first does not, then ODAR will start the process in Buffalo. Obviously I could be wrong. I imagine the room involved in this process is much like air traffic control with multiple maps and differing scenarios spread all over the place. I bet it is an amazing sight to see. I also would bet the people involved are good chess players with so much strategy involved! They must practice with rubiks cubes and other such puzzles in the off season. LOL!
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 17:44:36 GMT -5
Information forwarded by a forum regular who doesn't want to use his/her own handle: "ALJD, here's an e-mail that was forwarded to me from a friend. I thought you might find the new certificate process noted below to be of interest. Please share with the board as appropriate" * * * Dear Chief ALJ/Designee- The U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) is pleased to announce that effective today, a new Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) register has been established for Federal agency use in filling entry-level ALJ positions. This new register is based on the results of the examination process that applicants were required to complete under Job Opportunity Announcement Number: ALJ2013-847661, which was opened March 5, 2013 – March 15, 2013. As previously announced, the new register terminates and replaces the register established under the previous ALJ examinations (ALJ Vacancy Announcement 2007ALJ-134575, 2008ALJ-134575, and 2009ALJ-134575). Please be aware that going forward, we will issue an individual certificate from the ALJ register for each geographic location requested. Accordingly, if an agency is filling vacancies in multiple geographic locations at one time, a separate SF-39, Request for Referral of Eligibles, must be submitted for each individual location.We appreciate all of the assistance that you and your agency provided us during the examination development and administration process. Your input was invaluable and we are grateful for your continued support of the ALJ Program. * * * If the above e-mail is true, this new cert process might potentially upend most of our assumptions about the cert process from previous hiring cycles. Oh my! All new territory here! Thanks ALJD for the update!
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sxsw
Full Member
Posts: 75
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Post by sxsw on Mar 21, 2014 17:55:12 GMT -5
Very interesting - thanks for sharing this information.
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 21, 2014 17:57:12 GMT -5
WTH? So much for pretty much everything we have theorized. Nothing like being the guinea pigs for new ideas at every single level.
Is this opm's attempt to thwart past odar gamesmanship to get around undesirables?
Won't this lead to one or more high scorers with wide gals essentially taking 1/3 of all cert positions?
Will this force ssa to slow down, request one cert, decide, then request another so as to somehow make their desired maneuvers?
What....? just what....
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Post by futuressaalj on Mar 21, 2014 17:58:33 GMT -5
Information forwarded by a forum regular who doesn't want to use his/her own handle: "ALJD, here's an e-mail that was forwarded to me from a friend. I thought you might find the new certificate process noted below to be of interest. Please share with the board as appropriate" * * * Dear Chief ALJ/Designee- The U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) is pleased to announce that effective today, a new Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) register has been established for Federal agency use in filling entry-level ALJ positions. This new register is based on the results of the examination process that applicants were required to complete under Job Opportunity Announcement Number: ALJ2013-847661, which was opened March 5, 2013 – March 15, 2013. As previously announced, the new register terminates and replaces the register established under the previous ALJ examinations (ALJ Vacancy Announcement 2007ALJ-134575, 2008ALJ-134575, and 2009ALJ-134575). Please be aware that going forward, we will issue an individual certificate from the ALJ register for each geographic location requested. Accordingly, if an agency is filling vacancies in multiple geographic locations at one time, a separate SF-39, Request for Referral of Eligibles, must be submitted for each individual location.We appreciate all of the assistance that you and your agency provided us during the examination development and administration process. Your input was invaluable and we are grateful for your continued support of the ALJ Program. * * * If the above e-mail is true, this new cert process might potentially upend most of our assumptions about the cert process from previous hiring cycles. I am with SRATTY on this--No more horse trading and three striking vets against each other? Each location will get its own cert? This is an incredible new way of selecting folks. Actually harder to get to the specific favorite insider.... ALJD Thank you!
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 18:00:06 GMT -5
Is this OPM taking control of how the agencies fill their own cities? Hmmmm. I wonder what impact this will have on how long the process takes, or if it will matter at all in terms of time. This sounds like OPM is locking SSA into hiring only from the exact 3 for each city, so they are not able to go beyond each individual certificate per city. Hmmmm. I think any preference for insiders vs outsiders just went "poof".....perhaps this was the goal.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 18:02:29 GMT -5
WTH? So much for pretty much everything we have theorized. Nothing like being the guinea pigs for new ideas at every single level. Is this opm's attempt to thwart past odar gamesmanship to get around undesirables? Won't this lead to one or more high scorers with wide gals essentially taking 1/3 of all cert positions? Will this force ssa to slow down, request one cert, decide, then request another so as to somehow make their desired maneuvers? What....? just what.... Yep, I was thinking and writing the same basic idea. wow.
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Post by prescient on Mar 21, 2014 18:03:02 GMT -5
WTH? So much for pretty much everything we have theorized. Nothing like being the guinea pigs for new ideas at every single level. Is this opm's attempt to thwart past odar gamesmanship to get around undesirables? Won't this lead to one or more high scorers with wide gals essentially taking 1/3 of all cert positions? Will this force ssa to slow down, request one cert, decide, then request another so as to somehow make their desired maneuvers? What....? just what.... I was thinking the same thing. Doesn't this mean if the 3 top scorers have every location listed on their gal they would be on every single cert to the exclusion of everyone else?
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 18:07:26 GMT -5
But what if SSA requested certs for all 90 slots all in one swoop. Would anything really change? Just more strategy?
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Post by cubbietax on Mar 21, 2014 18:18:50 GMT -5
If they request 90 all at once is it possible that the people with smaller GAL will benefit as they now won't be against the wide open GALs. If I only have city A widely popular and the other candidate has all 174. Put him or her in crapland to interview while I get on the cert for my widely popular city.
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Post by westernalj on Mar 21, 2014 18:45:03 GMT -5
What concerns me about this, if it truly is a different process, is that my current GAL is overly broad. I did this based on the "you can narrow later, but you can't broaden later" advice. Would this make it possible for me to get on the cert for one of the locations as to which I have no intention of going - rather than getting on the cert, narrowing my GAL, and then being considered for the cities to which I truly would be willing to go.
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 21, 2014 18:59:48 GMT -5
My gut reaction is its a game changer. instead of getting 300 names that they can move around, they get 3 specific names per city.
So, if they get all 90 at once (again, one higher scorer with a broad gal could take 90 cert positions) that will mean to get who they want there will be a lot of no hires and requests for new certs for individual cities. Thus, way more time.
If they do it one at a time, then they won't know the scores or gals of who else is out there they may want.
At present, I can't see how this doesn't preempt odars usual game of three striking and shuffling without extending the timeline such that its impossible to complete in the timeframe odar needs it.
And now we see the reason for the delay in nors. Opm just played odar. You need to hire by sept 30? ok, well now you have to take one of the top 3 for each city. no time for your past maneuvers.
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Post by orchid on Mar 21, 2014 19:06:18 GMT -5
Information forwarded by a forum regular who doesn't want to use his/her own handle: "ALJD, here's an e-mail that was forwarded to me from a friend. I thought you might find the new certificate process noted below to be of interest. Please share with the board as appropriate" * * * Dear Chief ALJ/Designee- The U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) is pleased to announce that effective today, a new Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) register has been established for Federal agency use in filling entry-level ALJ positions. This new register is based on the results of the examination process that applicants were required to complete under Job Opportunity Announcement Number: ALJ2013-847661, which was opened March 5, 2013 – March 15, 2013. As previously announced, the new register terminates and replaces the register established under the previous ALJ examinations (ALJ Vacancy Announcement 2007ALJ-134575, 2008ALJ-134575, and 2009ALJ-134575). Please be aware that going forward, we will issue an individual certificate from the ALJ register for each geographic location requested. Accordingly, if an agency is filling vacancies in multiple geographic locations at one time, a separate SF-39, Request for Referral of Eligibles, must be submitted for each individual location.We appreciate all of the assistance that you and your agency provided us during the examination development and administration process. Your input was invaluable and we are grateful for your continued support of the ALJ Program. * * * If the above e-mail is true, this new cert process might potentially upend most of our assumptions about the cert process from previous hiring cycles. Do we know this is even true? Or is it another Sith-ic move?
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 19:08:15 GMT -5
What concerns me about this, if it truly is a different process, is that my current GAL is overly broad. I did this based on the "you can narrow later, but you can't broaden later" advice. Would this make it possible for me to get on the cert for one of the locations as to which I have no intention of going - rather than getting on the cert, narrowing my GAL, and then being considered for the cities to which I truly would be willing to go. You bring up an excellent point! I wonder if narrowing is even possible now. Or are we overreacting? It is sure hard to figure out how to plan when we do not know the rules. And if you are not able to narrow do you destroy your chances if you decline? Yikes. That is a tough position. I am willing to go anywhere so I am not in that boat but I can certainly see many people doing exactly what you are talking about as a strategy to at least get on a cert. I am sure many would have chosen differently if they had known whether or not there would be a chance to narrow at a later point. I guess we will know soon once people start reporting in.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 19:09:12 GMT -5
Information forwarded by a forum regular who doesn't want to use his/her own handle: "ALJD, here's an e-mail that was forwarded to me from a friend. I thought you might find the new certificate process noted below to be of interest. Please share with the board as appropriate" * * * Dear Chief ALJ/Designee- The U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) is pleased to announce that effective today, a new Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) register has been established for Federal agency use in filling entry-level ALJ positions. This new register is based on the results of the examination process that applicants were required to complete under Job Opportunity Announcement Number: ALJ2013-847661, which was opened March 5, 2013 – March 15, 2013. As previously announced, the new register terminates and replaces the register established under the previous ALJ examinations (ALJ Vacancy Announcement 2007ALJ-134575, 2008ALJ-134575, and 2009ALJ-134575). Please be aware that going forward, we will issue an individual certificate from the ALJ register for each geographic location requested. Accordingly, if an agency is filling vacancies in multiple geographic locations at one time, a separate SF-39, Request for Referral of Eligibles, must be submitted for each individual location.We appreciate all of the assistance that you and your agency provided us during the examination development and administration process. Your input was invaluable and we are grateful for your continued support of the ALJ Program. * * * If the above e-mail is true, this new cert process might potentially upend most of our assumptions about the cert process from previous hiring cycles. Do we know this is even true? Or is it another Sith-ic move? This came from someone who would know and it was in the form of an official email. My bet is truth.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 19:19:38 GMT -5
My gut reaction is its a game changer. instead of getting 300 names that they can move around, they get 3 specific names per city. So, if they get all 90 at once (again, one higher scorer with a broad gal could take 90 cert positions) that will mean to get who they want there will be a lot of no hires and requests for new certs for individual cities. Thus, way more time. If they do it one at a time, then they won't know the scores or gals of who else is out there they may want. At present, I can't see how this doesn't preempt odars usual game of three striking and shuffling without extending the timeline such that its impossible to complete in the timeframe odar needs it. And now we see the reason for the delay in nors. Opm just played odar. You need to hire by sept 30? ok, well now you have to take one of the top 3 for each city. no time for your past maneuvers. And if SSA wanted insiders there would be no way of knowing how far down the register they are until they show up on the individual city cert. This seems like a total control move by OPM, but I have to have faith SSA has a plan as to how to deal with this.
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Post by hopenfaith on Mar 21, 2014 19:21:16 GMT -5
Situational bourbon, stat!!
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 19:22:13 GMT -5
Situational bourbon, stat!! Already on it! LOL!
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 21, 2014 20:04:35 GMT -5
I am thinking the same.
332.402 says "When OPM receives a request for certification of eligibles, it shall prepare a certificate from the top of the appropriate register containing the names of a sufficient number of eligibles to permit the appointing officer to consider three eligibles in connection with each vacancy." They'll get three names for each vacancy in each city. So three vacancies in Buffalo?" Nine names. One vacancy in LA? Three names.
They've got to follow preference rules, or else file an objection in accordance with 332.406. If they file an objection, para. (c) says "Pending OPM action on an agency’s objection to an eligible, the agency may not appoint an eligible who would be within reach only if the objection is sustained." Based on our experience with the speed of OPM, think about how long that might take. Just for one slot in one city. Before they could go on to the next, if that's how they wanted to play.
BUT, it probably does not do away with the three strike rule of 332.405 - "An appointing officer is not required to consider an eligible who has been considered by him for three separate appointments from the same or different certificates for the same position." [emphasis added] You are a preference eligible with a wide-open GAL, and they decide you are not ALJ material. You show up on three cities they request, get passed, and you are gone same as before.
Just my speculation. Funky, we've been through this. They're going to get the 300, maybe 400 (I dunno) top scorers. One Cert. They will not get everyone they want this time around. The list of cities (twice or so if more than one slot) on the left column. The three eligibles on the top horizontal column. You start at the top with the high scorers and go from there. They cancel each other out as you choose one of the three--you have considered them as you choose whom you want. Due to decimal double digit being a vet matters not--so there is no "battle". A whole lot of high scorers will be thrice struck. So this is not new? The separate certs for each city? aljdiscussion.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=1&thread=2479&post=51594
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