|
|
Post by aljsouth on Sept 11, 2007 21:47:19 GMT -5
This thread was suggested by a post by Odarite, who rightly pointed out that this impacts potential judge classes.
Well, the agency never has explaned this. One thing is that historically the agency does not look at caseload, i.e. the requests for alj hearings received in a year. Some sites have many more cases per judge (using the entire docket divided by the number of judges, not the number of cases somehow shown with the judge's number--those of you in the agency will understand that cases may sit in docket for 2 years in some places before being pulled for assignment to a judge). Some are about 1200 per judge. Some places it is 300 or so per judge.
About 2 years ago I was hocalj for the day (the real hocalj was out and I was backup). Region called and wanted to know how many empty judge's offces we had. I told them. This was how it was decided if we needed judges, not caseload, average wait for hearing, etc. I readily admit I don't know how the decisions to allocate judges were made after that. We did get a judge and needed several.
Mabe Pixie has some insight into inner workings.
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Sept 11, 2007 21:58:50 GMT -5
Similarly, it seems like many of the choices of cities to place the ODAR offices were probably based on the availability of federal office space rather than a careful calculation of demographics
|
|
|
|
Post by odarite on Sept 12, 2007 4:53:32 GMT -5
aljsouth is right about how things used to be. And given that they can't place a judge in a city where there is no office for another ALJ, there is still some truth to it. However, this time they are looking at the pending per ALJ and are planning to put judges where there is the highest pending and an available office. For that reason they have said that the new class will go to essentially regions 4, 5, 6 and 7 but not to 1 or 9. It must be noted, however, that after the next class is hired the ALJ corps will still not be at the optimum number, so this is also an exercise in allocating scarce resources.
|
|
|
|
Post by anotheroldtimer on Sept 12, 2007 10:59:35 GMT -5
Most agencies besides SSA operate out of DC. Therefore, a certificate would only have that site on it. DC is selected by more individuals on the register than any other site, so there is great competition.
Say for instance that ODAR requests a certificate for 25 cities. If any of those cities are on your geographical preference list, you will be sent a letter advising you that a certificate will be issued for these cities, and asking you to indicate which of these cities that you would definitely accept an appointment. This is crunch time. Do not select any that you would not accept because if you are offered and decline, it counts against you. In the past, I think two declinations would scratch you from the list (hearsay only). There is no penalty for not selecting cities before the certificate is issued.
Most agencies wait until their chosen ones are hired by SSA and then they transfer over.
|
|
|
|
Post by privateatty on Sept 12, 2007 13:01:08 GMT -5
Thank you anotheroldtimer.
After I read all this, I'm just happy I am's what I am's (to quote Popeye). As Pixie told us a while back, the Agency knows more than us and likes to keep it that way. Your post reminded me of that.
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Sept 12, 2007 19:56:31 GMT -5
Privateatty, I have no federal agency experience either but the federal system operates pretty much the same way most state civil service systems operate. They hire from the top of the eligibles on the appropriate lists.
If your smaller agency requests a list before SSA requests their list, you will absolutely have to be in the top 2 or 3 percent (or maybe top 1 to 2 percent) of the 650 for your name to be referred. They will probably only have a few positions to fill, so the list they get will be very short, probably mostly veterans and maybe a few others with really high scores.
IF SSA requests their list first, and you are high enough to make that list, you may get an SSA interview and be offered a position in the cities you have requested. If you reject one of those cities, you are then barred from further consideration in that city for any agency. If you reject a second city, you are suspended from the list.
Your best bet might be to try to get an SSA job for two years then transfer to your desired agency. Your odds of getting a position with an agency other than SSA next year are extremely slim.
|
|
|
|
Post by odarite on Sept 12, 2007 20:17:50 GMT -5
Chris is right but for one point. If your agency wants you and you have taken an SSA ALJ position, there is no requirement that you wait 2 years to move to your agency of choice. SSA has to agree to let you go (there is the training cost that they have absorbed) but I know of one ALJ who transfered to another agency right after training, and in fact was negotiating with the new agency and SSA during training. It is in any event true that most federal ALJs who are not SSA employees are former SSA ALJs.
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Sept 12, 2007 20:27:37 GMT -5
A possible out!
Good luck privateatty!
|
|
|
|
Post by ruonthelist on Sept 13, 2007 7:54:11 GMT -5
Odarite is right--the most likely way to get to the agency you want is by paying your dues with a short stint in SSA. There are two ways that an agency can hire ALJs; off the register and from sitting ALJs. Agencies other than SSA often list openings on usajobs (there was one a few weeks ago by OMHA, for instance) If you read those listings you will see that they require applicants to be current or reinstatement-eligible former ALJs.
If your agency has a single slot to fill, and it is in DC (as most of the jobs for non-SSA judges are), and if they request a certificate from OPM they will get the top 3 names on the register who included DC in their geographic preference. Their pool of candidates will be limited to those 3. But if they list the job for sitting ALJs, their talent pool will be however many ALJs apply.
Privateatty, if your relationship with the Chief Judge of the agency before which you practice is really good, you may be able to do what others have done before. Take whatever location SSA offers you. Don't sell your house, don't move your family, don't sign a longterm lease. Get some cheap lodgings (craigslist may be a help). When your agency is ready to hire you, transfer.
In a transfer situation the losing agency has to give permission if the employee has been there for less than a year. I know of several ALJs who have been let go by SSA in less than a year. It is important in getting that consent that they not incur any moving expenses, but since you are not a federal employee now that won't be a factor.
Good luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by privateatty on Sept 13, 2007 8:36:24 GMT -5
Many thanks to chris, odarite & ruonthelist!
I deeply appreciate your time in answering my questions. As an aside, it is indeed new and strange to have so little control over one's future.
"Teach thy necessity to reason thus;
There is no virtue like necessity." Shakespeare, Richard II; I.iii.277
|
|
|
|
Post by ruonthelist on Sept 14, 2007 9:22:11 GMT -5
Reading what justfound said makes me think that I may have phrased my earlier post inartfully. When I spoke of "paying your dues" I didn't mean to imply that Chief Judges of other agencies look on time spent in SSA as any sort of qualification or experience for work in their agencies. They may or may not.
There are probably as many views on ALJ hiring as there are agency Chief Judges. Some may look on SSA experience as useful practice in judging that helps the candidate develop skills that will be transferrable to another agency. Others probably look on SSA as pure career downtime, because non-adversarial disability hearings are so different from what other ALJs do. Chief Judges who take that point of view will still hire SSA ALJs, but they will do so based on what the candidate did as an attorney before going to SSA, and will regard it as a necessary evil that a good candidate has to get into the ALJ Corps through SSA because the mechanics of the OPM register makes it too hard to hire that candidate directly.
---------
Are YOU on the list?
|
|
|
|
Post by odarite on Sept 14, 2007 12:33:16 GMT -5
Privateatty, if your relationship with the Chief Judge of the agency before which you practice is really good, you may be able to do what others have done before. Take whatever location SSA offers you. Don't sell your house, don't move your family, don't sign a longterm lease. Get some cheap lodgings (craigslist may be a help). When your agency is ready to hire you, transfer. Justfound, go back and read what ruonthelist said. Consider what value a year or more of a commuter marriage would cost versus the benefits. Get a furnished apartment and tough it out. You might be surprised at how many have gone before you down this road. |
|
