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Post by JudgeRatty on May 15, 2015 21:05:19 GMT -5
I thank you sincerely for your thoughts and for taking the time to respond, sratty. But I fear you are missing my primary point (and I don't expect you or anyone here to have the answer): if OPM is going to lower any threshold, why not lower it where it makes more sense - at the WD-SI level; there won't be need for further testing AND you are drawing from higher scorers at the online level. I say this acknowledging that I have several friends and associates who did not pass the online test; they are bright, hard-working and worthy and I will wish them only the best going forward with this new chance.
I do have to ask is there really a difference between what I called 'retroactively changing the scoring requirements' and what you call 'lowering the threshold score"?
And you are right - there is no need to adjudicate the appeal if this is how OPM proceeds. However, there would be a need to adjudicate appeals if OPM was faithful to its own job announcement. Maybe it has something to do with wanting to seen more candidates in person? ... if they add more at the level they are doing, they have a chance to actually have the face to face OPM interview. Not sure. No doubt they made the decision for some reason and we may never know that reason.
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Post by ok1956 on May 15, 2015 21:43:26 GMT -5
Just some random thoughts that are really no more than my opinion with a bit of fact thrown in -
1. Based on conversations at training (admittedly people who got an offer) a good number of us (myself included) had small (even tiny) GALs due to family or other personal reasons and would not have expanded our GALs if given the opportunity. Based on polling there are a lot of small GALs and OPM may believe only a small percentage would increase their GALs (and based on different posts in the board a good number of people are "trimming" their GALs when the opportunity arises). B. (Using Gaidin's listing system haha) perhaps the thought is that the online testing isn't as strong an indicator of future performance as the WD and SI, so it would make more sense to see if those folks can score well enough on the WD and SI to get a NOR. Third. As previously noted, all the scores are added to come up with the NOR so a lower score will carry forward. And I'm with Sratty - this will take time - and SSA still wants to hire soon so it's a good time to be on the register!
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Post by gary on May 15, 2015 21:48:24 GMT -5
Just some random thoughts that are really no more than my opinion with a bit of fact thrown in - 1. Based on conversations at training (admittedly people who got an offer) a good number of us (myself included) had small (even tiny) GALs due to family or other personal reasons and would not have expanded our GALs if given the opportunity. Based on polling there are a lot of small GALs and OPM may believe only a small percentage would increase their GALs (and based on different posts in the board a good number of people are "trimming" their GALs when the opportunity arises). B. (Using Gaidin's listing system haha) perhaps the thought is that the online testing isn't as strong an indicator of future performance as the WD and SI, so it would make more sense to see if those folks can score well enough on the WD and SI to get a NOR. Third. As previously noted, all the scores are added to come up with the NOR so a lower score will carry forward. And I'm with Sratty - this will take time - and SSA still wants to hire soon so it's a good time to be on the register! Despite your last sentence, it hasn't escaped my notice that when you got your chance you got off the register.
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Post by ok1956 on May 15, 2015 22:07:16 GMT -5
As someone on the board once told me during the large vs small GAL debate probably a year ago - it only takes 1 (city that is). :-)
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Post by anotherfed on May 15, 2015 23:22:08 GMT -5
Just some random thoughts that are really no more than my opinion with a bit of fact thrown in - 1. Based on conversations at training (admittedly people who got an offer) a good number of us (myself included) had small (even tiny) GALs due to family or other personal reasons and would not have expanded our GALs if given the opportunity. Based on polling there are a lot of small GALs and OPM may believe only a small percentage would increase their GALs (and based on different posts in the board a good number of people are "trimming" their GALs when the opportunity arises). B. (Using Gaidin's listing system haha) perhaps the thought is that the online testing isn't as strong an indicator of future performance as the WD and SI, so it would make more sense to see if those folks can score well enough on the WD and SI to get a NOR. Third. As previously noted, all the scores are added to come up with the NOR so a lower score will carry forward. And I'm with Sratty - this will take time - and SSA still wants to hire soon so it's a good time to be on the register! Despite your last sentence, it hasn't escaped my notice that when you got your chance you got off the register. Double like!
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Post by Missundaztood on May 15, 2015 23:51:42 GMT -5
Plannin' on gettin' my offer b4 this goes down. Just sayin'.
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Post by anotherfed on May 15, 2015 23:55:01 GMT -5
Did I hear somebody say insiders v. outsiders!! All right!!! Where is Funky when I need an insider to pick a fight with on this board. He did just buy me a beer recently and besides, I am an insider NOW! Just joking. Tiger You are a neuveau insider, and thus not as worthy as insider insiders... C'mon, Funky! Fight! Fight! Let's have a flame war!
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Post by Patience on May 16, 2015 0:02:16 GMT -5
Did I hear somebody say insiders v. outsiders!! All right!!! Where is Funky when I need an insider to pick a fight with on this board. He did just buy me a beer recently and besides, I am an insider NOW! Just joking. Tiger You are a neuveau insider, and thus not as worthy as insider insiders... C'mon, Funky! Fight! Fight! Let's have a flame war! Tiger is an outside inner...
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Post by saaao on May 16, 2015 5:53:19 GMT -5
I thank you sincerely for your thoughts and for taking the time to respond, sratty. But I fear you are missing my primary point (and I don't expect you or anyone here to have the answer): if OPM is going to lower any threshold, why not lower it where it makes more sense - at the WD-SI level; there won't be need for further testing AND you are drawing from higher scorers at the online level. I say this acknowledging that I have several friends and associates who did not pass the online test; they are bright, hard-working and worthy and I will wish them only the best going forward with this new chance.
I do have to ask is there really a difference between what I called 'retroactively changing the scoring requirements' and what you call 'lowering the threshold score"?
And you are right - there is no need to adjudicate the appeal if this is how OPM proceeds. However, there would be a need to adjudicate appeals if OPM was faithful to its own job announcement. Maybe it has something to do with wanting to seen more candidates in person? ... if they add more at the level they are doing, they have a chance to actually have the face to face OPM interview. Not sure. No doubt they made the decision for some reason and we may never know that reason. I suspect that at the second phase there was no true failing score, just a ranking with only those above a certain percentile allowed to move on, consistent with expected hiring needs. However at phase III, I think that OPM put in a minimum score that had be achieved on the SI and WD to advance any farther, that was not based on expected hiring needs but was simply a minimum acceptable score. If I remember correctly my invitation to phase III characterized it as a "skills demonstration". That would explain why they are doing this way. OPM can't change the rules at this stage, so if their internal guidance provides for a "ranking" rather than a "fail" at phase ii but does provide for a "fail" at phase iii, then they couldn't go back at this point at set a lower score for phase iii cut offs but they could allow for a lower score for phase ii, as that wasn't technically a disqualifying phase. That's my guess. Anyone who is really curious can file a FOIA request. I would anticipate it being answered sometime next century if you file it right away.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 16, 2015 6:59:52 GMT -5
Did I hear somebody say insiders v. outsiders!! All right!!! Where is Funky when I need an insider to pick a fight with on this board. He did just buy me a beer recently and besides, I am an insider NOW! Just joking. Tiger I have noticed a very distinct pattern to when offers start. There has been a preceding event, a throw down of sorts, prior to every offer commencement. In that spirit, and to do nothing more than to inspire the powers that be to get on with it and get the calls moving, I state the following:
1. Everyone with a small GAL is stupid.
2. Insiders are superior to outsiders.
3. Vet points are ridiculous.
4. Anyone who gets on the register at this point is an interloper.
5. Polls are never right.
6. Only 50% or less of the people on the register know about the board.
And that should be enough for now. Grenade ... pull, throw, take cover.....
Rather than me posting a response to your many posts on this topic sratty, let me just say is there anybody you didn't upset with one of your posts? LOL Now, I am trying to be funny as I know you to be one of the nicest people on the Board, but I think many could view some of your posts in a manner not intended by you. Needless to say, this is why I stayed out of this minefield as nobody was going to be completely happy with the news for one reason or another. Knowing you and having chatted with you, I tend to agree with a lot of what you intended to say, but may have been misinterpreted by others. Perhaps, next time, less is more.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 16, 2015 7:02:16 GMT -5
Plannin' on gettin' my offer b4 this goes down. Just sayin'. Well stated Miss, well stated. I hope to be in the same boat as you, if you will have me.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 16, 2015 7:09:18 GMT -5
I thank you sincerely for your thoughts and for taking the time to respond, sratty. But I fear you are missing my primary point (and I don't expect you or anyone here to have the answer): if OPM is going to lower any threshold, why not lower it where it makes more sense - at the WD-SI level; there won't be need for further testing AND you are drawing from higher scorers at the online level. I say this acknowledging that I have several friends and associates who did not pass the online test; they are bright, hard-working and worthy and I will wish them only the best going forward with this new chance.
I do have to ask is there really a difference between what I called 'retroactively changing the scoring requirements' and what you call 'lowering the threshold score"?
And you are right - there is no need to adjudicate the appeal if this is how OPM proceeds. However, there would be a need to adjudicate appeals if OPM was faithful to its own job announcement. Alrifle I can honestly say I understand your point completely and I can understand your frustration. However, I will say there are many on the Register that have a similar frustration by having a decent score and being on several certs, but not being picked up yet. So, just making the Register, doesn't guarantee you anything. It just gives one an opportunity you don't have right now. However, I will say don't fall into the trap of thinking being on the Register is the panacea for all your frustrations and guarantees you anything.
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Post by Gaidin on May 16, 2015 7:35:16 GMT -5
I have noticed a very distinct pattern to when offers start. There has been a preceding event, a throw down of sorts, prior to every offer commencement. In that spirit, and to do nothing more than to inspire the powers that be to get on with it and get the calls moving, I state the following:
1. Everyone with a small GAL is stupid.
2. Insiders are superior to outsiders.
3. Vet points are ridiculous.
4. Anyone who gets on the register at this point is an interloper.
5. Polls are never right.
6. Only 50% or less of the people on the register know about the board.
And that should be enough for now. Grenade ... pull, throw, take cover.....
Rather than me posting a response to your many posts on this topic sratty, let me just say is there anybody you didn't upset with one of your posts? LOL Now, I am trying to be funny as I know you to be one of the nicest people on the Board, but I think many could view some of your posts in a manner not intended by you. Needless to say, this is why I stayed out of this minefield as nobody was going to be completely happy with the news for one reason or another. Knowing you and having chatted with you, I tend to agree with a lot of what you intended to say, but may have been misinterpreted by others. Perhaps, next time, less is more. I believe everything Sr said in that post was intended solely as satire. There really isn't any other way to take it.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 16, 2015 7:47:18 GMT -5
Rather than me posting a response to your many posts on this topic sratty, let me just say is there anybody you didn't upset with one of your posts? LOL Now, I am trying to be funny as I know you to be one of the nicest people on the Board, but I think many could view some of your posts in a manner not intended by you. Needless to say, this is why I stayed out of this minefield as nobody was going to be completely happy with the news for one reason or another. Knowing you and having chatted with you, I tend to agree with a lot of what you intended to say, but may have been misinterpreted by others. Perhaps, next time, less is more. I believe everything Sr said in that post was intended solely as satire. There really isn't any other way to take it. Gaidin I realize that and if you read my post you would know I supported sratty. Furthermore, my post wasn't about that one post, but her many post to the topic of OPM opening up the process again. I am glad you pointed out the satire in sratty's post to others though. Someone will always have something to complain about, even if everything was perfect.
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Post by JudgeRatty on May 16, 2015 7:48:17 GMT -5
Rather than me posting a response to your many posts on this topic sratty, let me just say is there anybody you didn't upset with one of your posts? LOL Now, I am trying to be funny as I know you to be one of the nicest people on the Board, but I think many could view some of your posts in a manner not intended by you. Needless to say, this is why I stayed out of this minefield as nobody was going to be completely happy with the news for one reason or another. Knowing you and having chatted with you, I tend to agree with a lot of what you intended to say, but may have been misinterpreted by others. Perhaps, next time, less is more. I believe everything Sr said in that post was intended solely as satire. There really isn't any other way to take it. EXACTLY! Sigh. Pure silliness and sarcasm. Nothing more.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 7:49:01 GMT -5
That's for posting this, Tiger.
As one who was kicked out at Stage I, i think not reconsidering those first step appeals before doing this might lead to litigation. Given especially that no rationale was given as to how I "failed to meet minimum qualifications."
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Post by moopigsdad on May 16, 2015 7:50:01 GMT -5
I believe everything Sr said in that post was intended solely as satire. There really isn't any other way to take it. EXACTLY! Sigh. Pure silliness and sarcasm. Nothing more. Unfortunately on the Board sratty that is what gets you and everyone who does the same in trouble with others......LOL
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 8:02:18 GMT -5
Did I hear somebody say insiders v. outsiders!! All right!!! Where is Funky when I need an insider to pick a fight with on this board. He did just buy me a beer recently and besides, I am an insider NOW! Just joking. Tiger You are a neuveau insider, and thus not as worthy as insider insiders... C'mon, Funky! Fight! Fight! Let's have a flame war! The last time I saw him on Friday, he was working on his "to do" list and I think he is busy on the farm this weekend, but YOU seem to have some time on your hands before training ! Flame on...flame on. Tiger
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 8:42:15 GMT -5
And for those who desperately want to expand their GAL, but don't have experience with ODAR proceedings, I would strongly encourage you to seek out an ODAR ALJ and ask them for a detailed account of what their job actually entails. It is very very different from the normal courtroom environment. You don't want to move to some backwater on the other side of the country just to get a judgeship and then find out that the judgeship you got is not the kind of judge you had in mind when you got into this. I just say this, because I think a lot of us here are falling into sunk cost thinking. If your concern is that you put all this work in and you have to have something to show for it, you should stop and take a breath. You could end up with a job you don't like in a city you hate, with a very long wait on a transfer list to get to where you want to end up. Just my advice. I have repeatedly posted about how isolating this job is and it will probably not change during my career. You will spend 60-70% of your Judgeship staring at computer screens reviewing medical records. You do have a sit/stand option, but it's just you and your computer in your "jail cell"/ office. During "yard time"/breaks, you can hear yourself called Judge if you talk to a staff member, but you will be called much worse if you stop by Hilltopper or Funky's office. It's a real busy, busy, busy job. Coming from the criminal defense bar where you spend a large amount of your court time joking with others waiting for the Judge to get back on the bench or a prosecutor to talk to, it was a shock in the difference between my previous life as an attorney.
Having said that, it's still a great job, everybody's friendly (for the most part) and I treat every case as an investigation, trying to find the medical proof necessary to award or to deny a particular case and the hearings are enjoyable as most of the claimants are just good folks experiencing some hard times.
Knowing what I know now, I would still take the job! As Funky, Hilltopper and I have talked about several time.... no overhead, no clients, no Judges or prosecutors to deal with, no need to stay in touch with your office on leave, and no chasing the $$$ to pay for everything. IMHO Tiger
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Post by anotherfed on May 16, 2015 8:44:33 GMT -5
Pixie, perhaps it would be beneficial, both to old timers and newbies, to add the following to the intro rules of the forum: if a poster uses a "winky emoticon" the post is intended to be a joke, satire, sarcasm, etc, and not to be taken seriously. People who are easily offended should not join this forum, and might want to seriously consider a career change -- how can you practice law if you take everything personally? You may also want to reconsider becoming an ALJ -- since people will criticize you, both publicly and in private.
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