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Post by moopigsdad on Aug 22, 2015 8:48:18 GMT -5
so, i got my suit and look nice and judicial (in the suit at least ) my plan in DC is to try to keep myself relaxed and loose. Confident but not brash. was getting myself stressed last week but figured it's best to combine having fun and being serious when needed on this trip. Cause for me, that is likely how i will do best on it. and too all going. we have already gone through the ....., im not going to be a judge 2 years ago when we got the notice we were not moving on. and hey, life moved on... last 2 years have been pretty decent on my end. so as much as we would like or think we would like being a judge, we have other options too if this does not work out and im sure a lot of great things going on it all of our lives. and i mean that in the sense that is not the end all so don't go in like it's an all or nothing deal. unless that mindset is the one that makes you thrive and do your best! all the best to all of you, unless you get a better score than me and we are vying for the same city as our dream locale. than i hope you do slightly worse than me and get your second spot so i can grab the top spot!!! look forward to meeting some or perhaps many of you in the near future, C Christina just be cool. You know how to write well. Just prepare for SI by practicing scenarios. You will be fine and will probably be an ALJ before me. LOL!
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 8:52:05 GMT -5
i hope you beat me too it mpg. seriously, i mean it. and thanks for the vote of confidence!
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Post by Pixie on Aug 22, 2015 9:10:32 GMT -5
all the best to all of you, unless you get a better score than me and we are vying for the same city as our dream locale. than i hope you do slightly worse than me and get your second spot so i can grab the top spot!!! look forward to meeting some or perhaps many of you in the near future, C I guess it needs to be repeated every few years or so, probably for every new batch of members to the board. Not picking on Christina as she has been around for awhile and probably knows better, but I can use her quote above to repeat my refrain from the past: Scores don't matter (to the agency). SSA really doesn't care what one's score is. While OPM thinks its scores are terribly important, and they are at that level to make a certificate, SSA pays them no mind in making its own determination of the quality of the candidate. The agency has its own criteria. The fact that scores don't matter to the agency used to be a hard concept for many on this board to grasp, especially after jumping through the OPM hoops, going through all of the testing required by OPM, obsessing over and waiting for the results and then finally receiving the NOR (score). Most thought a high score was the ticket to an offer, and just wouldn't believe me when I told them otherwise. I believe PrivateAttorney was around in those early days, and remembers the controversy those remarks stirred. Probably time to repeat and see what the current thinking is. Pixie.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 9:23:35 GMT -5
all the best to all of you, unless you get a better score than me and we are vying for the same city as our dream locale. than i hope you do slightly worse than me and get your second spot so i can grab the top spot!!! look forward to meeting some or perhaps many of you in the near future, C I guess it needs to be repeated every few years or so, probably for every new batch of members to the board. Not picking on Christina as she has been around for awhile and probably knows better, but I can use her quote above to repeat my refrain from the past: Scores don't matter (to the agency). SSA really doesn't care what one's score is. While OPM thinks its scores are terribly important, and they are at that level to make a certificate, SSA pays them no mind in making its own determination of the quality of the candidate. The agency has its own criteria. The fact that scores don't matter to the agency used to be a hard concept for many on this board to grasp, especially after jumping through the OPM hoops, going through all of the testing required by OPM, obsessing over and waiting for the results and then finally receiving the NOR (score). Most thought a high score was the ticket to an offer, and just wouldn't believe me when I told them otherwise. I believe PrivateAttorney was around in those early days, and remembers the controversy those remarks stirred. Probably time to repeat and see what the current thinking is. Pixie. Pixie if scores don't matter to SSA are you saying all that is needed to be picked up by SSA is getting a score sufficient to make it on a cert? Does the same hold true for other agencies? So is it a combination of what you and Gary said. I'm not worrying about testing. I do believe it's you either have it or you don't.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 9:27:18 GMT -5
sorry, did mean to get a new controversy started, i am still confused on the scores and where you land part myself even having been around awhile. pixie knows WAY more on this than me. but yes, more from this board, i believe the real key is getting on the list. A better score does not hurt but it is not a ticket to getting your top office or as pixie pointed out, even an offer at all.
but thanks pixie for the clarification and nipping any inadvertent concerns i could have started. i do have a question though. it has been my informal observation that top scorers generally get picked up sooner than others. for example, someone with a score in the 80's has a better shot at getting an offer quicker than someone with a score of 70. not to say the 70 score person won't get picked up, and they likely will if SSA wants them but they could have a longer wait. or has that just been luck of the draw from what i've observed. to be honest, i know of very few of the exact scores of many folks(just one of those questions you DONT ask, esp if they have had a long wait) but i am aware of some who rumoredly had really good scores get snatched up pretty quick.
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Post by gary on Aug 22, 2015 9:28:51 GMT -5
Scores are crucially important.
1. In order to make a certificate, your score must make you reachable by SSA.
2. You can make a certificate with the lowest score on it and be reachable, but only barely. If SSA does not follow the only available hiring path to reach you, you can become unreachable after they make one hiring choice on a set of certs.
3. SSA cannot hire you unless your score is one of the top 3 for the slot at the time they hire you. If you are in 4th when they select for the slot, it doesn't matter how much they love you--they can't hire you for it.
4. If you are in a top 3 that includes a preference-eligible, they can't hire you unless your score is higher than the preference-eligible's. (There is a procedure for passing over a preference-eligible, but it requires OPM approval and the grounds for passing over are narrow.)
What is true about the statement that scores don't matter is:
1. In a top 3 absent preference issues or a plan to get to favored candidates when hiring for other slots, SSA is likely to hire the candidate they like best regardless of score.
2. If they don't like you, SSA has the tools necessary to never hire you regardless of your score--principally the three considerations rule.
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Post by ok1956 on Aug 22, 2015 9:42:26 GMT -5
Scores are crucially important. 1. In order to make a certificate, your score must make you reachable by SSA. 2. You can make a certificate with the lowest score on it and be reachable, but only barely. If SSA does not follow the only available hiring path to reach you, you can become unreachable after they make one hiring choice on a set of certs. 3. SSA cannot hire you unless your score is one of the top 3 for the slot at the time they hire you. If you are in 4th when they select for the slot, it doesn't matter how much they love you--they can't hire you for it. 4. If you are in a top 3 that includes a preference-eligible, they can't hire you unless your score is higher than the preference-eligible's. (There is a procedure for passing over a preference-eligible, but it requires OPM approval and the grounds for passing over are narrow.) What is true about the statement that scores don't matter is: 1. In a top 3 absent preference issues or a plan to get to favored candidates when hiring for other slots, SSA is likely to hire the candidate they like best regardless of score. 2. If they don't like you, SSA has the tools necessary to never hire you regardless of your score--principally the three considerations rule. What Gary said. I had a small GAL and was on only one cert. my score landed me in the top 3 but I have no idea if that was before or after they hired for other cities and have no idea if I was 1, 2 or 3 at the end of the day. I got an offer and am a very happy relatively new (no longer the newest in our office) ALJ.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 9:42:14 GMT -5
well said Gary, thanks! actually, your comments are close to how i thought things worked too, really appreciate it.
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Post by gary on Aug 22, 2015 9:46:30 GMT -5
sorry, did mean to get a new controversy started, i am still confused on the scores and where you land part myself even having been around awhile. pixie knows WAY more on this than me. but yes, more from this board, i believe the real key is getting on the list. A better score does not hurt but it is not a ticket to getting your top office or as pixie pointed out, even an offer at all. but thanks pixie for the clarification and nipping any inadvertent concerns i could have started. i do have a question though. it has been my informal observation that top scorers generally get picked up sooner than others. for example, someone with a score in the 80's has a better shot at getting an offer quicker than someone with a score of 70. not to say the 70 score person won't get picked up, and they likely will if SSA wants them but they could have a longer wait. or has that just been luck of the draw from what i've observed. to be honest, i know of very few of the exact scores of many folks(just one of those questions you DONT ask, esp if they have had a long wait) but i am aware of some who rumoredly had really good scores get snatched up pretty quick. As SSA has been doing its hiring, the scores that make the certs have been getting lower. (Keep in mind the precise scores that are good enough vary greatly by location.) For example, one of my cities was in the first set of certs. I was not on the list of eligibles for it. The same city was on the second set of certs and I was on the list of eligibles then. So SSA had to hire from among the higher scorers on the first set of certs. After that, with some of the top scorers hired and some not having to be considered except at SSA's discretion, the second set of certs included lower scores. Then the third lower still. Etc. Once your group is added to the register, it is likely to change the distribution of scores so you may see the scores jump up some, but then they will follow the same downward trajectory.
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Post by Pixie on Aug 22, 2015 9:54:45 GMT -5
I will repeat my statement that scores don't matter to the agency. The agency won't use the scores in determining the quality of the candidate. It uses its own criteria to make that determination.
Gary: Yes you are correct that scores do matter in some situations, but they don't matter to the agency when it is determining the quality of the candidate. That is what my observation was limited to. The agency pays no attention to the score when deciding who it wants to hire.
Tink: If your score puts you in the top three on the certificate, the agency can reach you, absent a veteran ahead of you on the cert. And even then, there are ways around it. Don't know how other agencies operate.
Christina: The candidates with the higher scores are going to be the ones to make the first several certificates to the agency. So, of course they will be the first to be picked up by SSA. OPM decides who will make the certificates based on the scores. The higher the score, the better the chance for make a certificate.
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Post by funkyodar on Aug 22, 2015 9:59:15 GMT -5
I think Pixie and Gary are right. Pixie is absolutely right on saying if ssa doesn't like you, they won't pick you regardless of scores. Equally, if they just love you, they will find a way to get you, maybe down the road and calendar a bit, but they will get you.
But, I agree with gary in how it works now. The new single city cert process has closed off a lot of ssa's old roads and maneuverability. Score once only mattered to get you on THE cert. Then, when on IT, you were in contention for every city you had on your gal. Now, the score has to be enough to get you on each individual city cert.
If ssa is hiring for 40 cities, you have all 40 cities in your gal and have a score high enough to be reachable in 5 of them, I n the past you were considered for all 40 and ssa had multiple ways to get to you if they wanted you.
Now, you would only be in contention for the 5. So no where near the routes to you ssa once had. Thus, scores have taken on a higher import based on the new cert process.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 10:17:42 GMT -5
def going to do some prep time today on my best shot of what prepping should be, thanks for input all!
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Post by anotherfed on Aug 22, 2015 17:03:28 GMT -5
def going to do some prep time today on my best shot of what prepping should be, thanks for input all! Be yourself. When I had my SI, I was so wound up. I went out and bought a (way too expensive) interview suit (which, like a bridesmaid dress, will never be worn again),then proceeded to sweat glisten my way thru the interview. Wool suit in August in DC? Brilliant. I don't think I made a very good impression -- unless the interviewers were turned on by the wet look. Nevertheless, I squeaked through. I was much more relaxed during my agency interview, and let my personality shine through. I belatedly realized my jacket didn't match my pants, but I was so suprised that I had made a cert that I didn't care. ODAR must have liked me, because I am now an ALJ. Which goes to show, as long as your NOR is enough to get you on a cert, it doesn't matter what OPM thinks of you. Good luck. I'd love to see you in a robe.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 17:45:55 GMT -5
thank you so much for the best wishes and ha ha on wool suit in DC in August! i am sure you were glistening! and id better check to see material on my suit, but at least i won't be testing in August!
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Post by gary on Aug 22, 2015 17:49:03 GMT -5
def going to do some prep time today on my best shot of what prepping should be, thanks for input all! Be yourself. When I had my SI, I was so wound up. I went out and bought a (way too expensive) interview suit (which, like a bridesmaid dress, will never be worn again),then proceeded to sweat glisten my way thru the interview. Wool suit in August in DC? Brilliant. I don't think I made a very good impression -- unless the interviewers were turned on by the wet look. Nevertheless, I squeaked through. I was much more relaxed during my agency interview, and let my personality shine through. I belatedly realized my jacket didn't match my pants, but I was so suprised that I had made a cert that I didn't care. ODAR must have liked me, because I am now an ALJ. Which goes to show, as long as your NOR is enough to get you on a cert, it doesn't matter what OPM thinks of you. Good luck. I'd love to see you in a robe. In that wool suit, did you smell like a wet dog?
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Post by anotherfed on Aug 22, 2015 19:17:33 GMT -5
Of course not! I smelled like flowers.
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Post by cinderella on Aug 24, 2015 14:59:22 GMT -5
Hi- has there been any chatter about dates of testing (SI/WD) being issued?
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Post by christina on Aug 24, 2015 15:43:03 GMT -5
Cinderella, nope to your question
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Post by pumpkin on Aug 24, 2015 18:40:51 GMT -5
I'm getting ready to head to D.C. next week for Round 3.
I'm going to wear five layers of clothing to the WD and LBMT to guard against the chill. But for the SI I'm going to wear a non-wool pantsuit. I have a hotel room booked which is a short cab ride to the OPM building and very proximate to the SI site. First order of business after checking in to the hotel is to ascertain the location of the hotel gym and the hotel bar, where I will be on the lookout for anyone who looks uncannily like their avatar on this site.
I will bring my photo ID and a printed copy of my "admission ticket" e-mails to each testing session. I will bring a PB&J sandwich and a bottle of water to the OPM building and will place it on the floor. I've signed up at my local ODAR office as a candystriper/volunteer to write 50 decisions this weekend to prep for the WD.
The LBMT will be a breeze because, for each question I will simply ponder, "which answer would Tiger, Funky, Gary, Sea, Mama, Liz, JudgeRatty, and Gaidin choose?" To prepare for the SI questions posed to gauge my judgie-ness, I'm planning to watch all those episodes of Judge Judy that I have on DVR.
If I become anxious during testing, worried that it is / is not / is as difficult as the bar exam, I will meditate on the mantra that this isn't as hard as working in a European brothel and when it's all over I can go to Tupelo and drink beer off of whatever shelf I please. When all is said and done I will immediately come back to the Boards to respond to the poll (if Mrs. G has not banned board posting from the dinner table next week) on whether I was able to correctly recite the Greek alphabet, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, ODAR, while simultaneously singing the ALJ Fealty Song, assuming such participation does not violate the NDA.
Seriously though...since the next week will be a little more hectic than usual, I just wanted to take the opportunity now to say "Thank You" to our Forum Legends - I appreciate your wisdom, humor, and counsel on these boards - you guys rock. Big thanks to Pixie and ALJD for keeping everything on the up-and-up. Hopefully someday I will have the privilege of becoming an ALJ colleague and have the opportunity to thank each of you in person. Until that time, I hope you will accept my post of gratitude. Peace.
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Post by christina on Aug 24, 2015 19:00:58 GMT -5
omg Pumpkin, that is hilarious!!! thanks
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