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Post by christina on Jan 2, 2016 9:09:51 GMT -5
Hello to all. Hoping that some who have been a SAA and ALJ will comment on pluses and minuses of both jobs. The salary and increased retirement is a huge plus of the ALJ job while moving who knows where is a downside of the ALJ job.
There are several other things i have thought as well but i would love to get some feedback from others. Also, to those who are wiling to post, which job do you prefer doing and why?
Thanks, Christina
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Post by maquereau on Jan 2, 2016 14:19:58 GMT -5
SA position was much better for quality of life. I was in charge of my own schedule; I could take off whenever I liked. I felt like my work product was my own, so there was much greater satisfaction with the work turned out. If the SA position had gone to a 14 instead of stopping at 13, I would probably never have become an ALJ. The plus side for the ALJ job is the increased pay - some would also say that being in a position to make important decisions affecting the lives of others is a plus. On the other hand, you do not have great freedom in scheduling and you have to have at least the next 6 months of your life planned - always. You will receive work product from others that is substandard and you will have to figure out the best way to fix it - but your time to do so is quite limited. You will not escape management demands.
I will not be trying to get back to an SA position. I have heard that there are a few judges who somehow opted out and got to return to an SA position; I have no idea how such a thing was managed.
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Post by Thomas fka Lance on Jan 2, 2016 15:28:07 GMT -5
The largest difference is not the difference between the job duties but rather the difference in the ability to obtain the position, (if you are not already an SAA, Christina). Please ignore the remainder of my response if you are an SAA.
They are hiring ALJ's and will continue to do so at a rather rapid pace if SSA's plans come to fruition.
On the other hand, the openings for SAA are very limited, (new positions are almost nonexistent).
Of course, SSA may decide to revive the SAA position in the future, but I have heard no rumors of such a change coming soon
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Post by christina on Jan 2, 2016 15:29:26 GMT -5
thanks to both and lance, yes, i am a SAA. getting on the ALJ register is my current challenge. im in group that should find out if we make register within next 2 to 3 months.
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Post by uclabruin on Jan 2, 2016 19:11:07 GMT -5
Being a SAA does have many advantages. I was in private practice for over 17 years prior to becoming a SAA. The advantages include the pay and benefits (steady pay), essentially working independently of others in a private office, the benefit of working from home at least 3 days a week, learning the intricacies of Social Security disability law, and working with a terrific staff in a great Federal agency. Some would beg to differ on my listed advantages, but that's the way I feel. ?
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Post by aljpdq on Jan 2, 2016 22:47:55 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this question, Christina. I'm in the same group waiting to hear testing results and I would also be interested in hearing from forum participants with ALJ experience on the subject of the pluses and minuses of the ALJ position. I'm a fed but not with SSA, and I've appreciated the talk on this site about the process.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 5:54:34 GMT -5
SA position was much better for quality of life. I was in charge of my own schedule; I could take off whenever I liked. I felt like my work product was my own, so there was much greater satisfaction with the work turned out. If the SA position had gone to a 14 instead of stopping at 13, I would probably never have become an ALJ. The plus side for the ALJ job is the increased pay - some would also say that being in a position to make important decisions affecting the lives of others is a plus. On the other hand, you do not have great freedom in scheduling and you have to have at least the next 6 months of your life planned - always. You will receive work product from others that is substandard and you will have to figure out the best way to fix it - but your time to do so is quite limited. You will not escape management demands. I will not be trying to get back to an SA position. I have heard that there are a few judges who somehow opted out and got to return to an SA position; I have no idea how such a thing was managed. I was not going to comment on this topic at all, but maquereau's office seems to be different from my experience from the two offices that I have been in since being hired in 2014. In Tupelo, the SA mainly wrote decisions as of mid-2014. If the SA did something other than that before 2014, please ignore. The agency seems to wish to push forward for pre-hearings and maybe OTRs for Senior Attorneys, but still it’s a Decision Writing type of job.
The planning schedule so far for me has been 3-4 months MAX. Even if it was 6 months planning ahead, I don’t see a problem there. Neither Julia Roberts or Jennifer Lawrence have been texting me lately to fly off to Rio with them in the next month or so! All professional level jobs require you to plan out your schedule somewhat in advance; this is not Burger King type work.
I think the biggest issue with SA going to ALJ is that you still think like an employee of the Agency instead of a United States Administrative Law Judge appointed under the United States Code and the Administrative Procedures Act.
Maquereau’s comment about “not escaping management”……. I don’t have a clue what that means as an ALJ!
I have been doing this for almost 18 months and I have had almost ZERO interaction with management in two offices. If the HOCALJ (Hearing Office Chief Administrative Judge) has an administrative issue to discuss with me, then he/she can (thus far it has not happened), but there has not been a “not escaping management” event in my short 18 month experience.
For what it is worth and IMHO, tiger!
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Post by lizdarcy on Jan 3, 2016 6:45:49 GMT -5
I think someone who has already been working at ODAR would know the differences between the two jobs. That's a comment, not a criticism.
As for the issue of an ALJ being managed, I echo Tiger's comment about being a United States Administrative Law Judge who is appointed and operating under the Administrative Procedures Act, not hired as an agency judge/hearing officer. At SSA, an appointed U.S. Administrative Law Judge reports up through the ALJ lines, not to other ODAR management. This is a crucial distinction.
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Post by aljwishhope on Jan 3, 2016 8:10:43 GMT -5
I think though I have not been an SA that the experience of being an ALJ I'd quite different. From a friend who is an ALJ it seems like the expectations for scheduling hearings (50 a month? ) regardless of any trips with Julia or Jennifer is the rub. It is a part of the job and to be expected. But if you have a very flexible job you will give that up. I have more than 15 years experience and can take a weeks vacation with little notice because I work very independently and am not stuck to working hearing hpurs. I can do a load of comp time or use leave. More often the situation is that I can leave in the middle of the day for a meeting with a teacher which could not have been known 6 months earlier. This aspect of ALJ if appointed will be a challenge. But it helps that the kids are older now.
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Post by christina on Jan 3, 2016 9:39:46 GMT -5
I have appreciated all comments especially maquareaus. I have a pretty good idea of what being an alj entails.
However in talking with my friends who have done both jobs, some miss the saa job. The freedom of using leave is one issue. If I want to take 2 weeks off for a vacation I can. Yes I still can as a judge but I'll be coming back to aging alpos, I'll be needing to make up hearing days to hit the 50 hearings per month average, etc.
In light of issues my friends have raised, I wanted to expand the pool of learning from people on this topic which is why I created this post.
Tiger, u raised 2 interesting points. One was inadvertent but alj satisfaction can vary from office. I know tupelo is a great office with a great hocalj so your experiences about less mangt oversight may be due in part due to mangt in the 2 offices you have been in. I also suspect if you ever got a you have too many cases in alpo memo, your response would be blow it out your "ear" but u would likely work late that week or come in over weekend to catch up.
You also indicated saa's are less independent than outsiders or something along those lines. Not true or it may be issue that varies by person. From what I have seen, most attorneys at odar think very independently. And the judges appreciate that. I have met odar employees who tend to not think outside the box but most of those folks have not been attorneys.
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Post by Pixie on Jan 3, 2016 11:18:46 GMT -5
On the other hand, you do not have great freedom in scheduling and you have to have at least the next 6 months of your life planned - always. . . . . You will not escape management demands. If you allow management to force you to set your docket six months in advance, whose fault is that? And I'm not being critical here, I just want to use this post to make a point. As a former senior attorney, you may remember the old days when hearings were set about 30 days out. Then management decided it would be "better" if dockets were set 90 days in advance. There may have eventually been a regulation on this. Some few years later, TPTB decided that scheduling even further out was better still. Guidance from OCALJ, through the regions, to hearing office management read something like, "Please encourage your ALJs to submit their hearing calendars six months in advance." My initial question on seeing this was, "Why?" Why should the judges lock themselves in for six months at a time? Then I realized it was all about Congress. The Agency would submit reports to Congress on the initiatives it was taking to reduce the backlog and the progress it was making. It sounded better to report that there are 100,000 cases set for hearing than it was to say there are 50,000 set. Most of the judges in my office didn't play along with this "request," although some OCD souls would submit calendars for a year at a time. Parenthetically I note that these judges are often the ones who have management scurrying around looking for another judge to take their hearings because something "came up." In my office we all schedule to the maximum, and no judge is sitting around looking for something to do. She is either in hearings, preparing for hearings for the next day or editing decisions that have to go out today. There is just no spare time available during the day. But that is a rant for another day. So, my point is this: If a judge finds that scheduling six months in advance is imposing a hardship, then don't do it. I am aware of no order from OCALJ requiring this. Schedule far enough ahead of time to allow the scheduler to obtain expert witnesses, hearing reporters and attorneys, but don't go so far out that all spontaneity in one's personal life is lost. JMO, Pixie.
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Post by onepingonly on Jan 3, 2016 13:10:27 GMT -5
In our office, we are asked to submit schedules 6 months in advance; we are told this is due to competition between offices to lock in VE availability. Most comply but with an understanding that things do come up. A pedantic quibble: it's the Administrative Procedure Act. Not procedureS.
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Post by jd on Jan 3, 2016 14:13:38 GMT -5
I think what the first poster meant is if,as an ALJ, you don't meet your quota or cases languish for more than 30 days in judge controlled status, management will let you know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 14:38:28 GMT -5
I have appreciated all comments especially maquareaus. I have a pretty good idea of what being an alj entails. However in talking with my friends who have done both jobs, some miss the saa job. The freedom of using leave is one issue. If I want to take 2 weeks off for a vacation I can. Yes I still can as a judge but I'll be coming back to aging alpos, I'll be needing to make up hearing days to hit the 50 hearings per month average, etc. ... You also indicated saa's are less independent than outsiders or something along those lines. Not true or it may be issue that varies by person. From what I have seen, most attorneys at odar think very independently. And the judges appreciate that. I have met odar employees who tend to not think outside the box but most of those folks have not been attorneys. Two points I would address.
1. An ALJ does not have to make up any hearings, if you are on leave for a month, two weeks or out sick, that is factored into the equation and Chief Bice and Dep Chief Allen will not tell you that there is a mandatory 50 hearings a month requirement. Both of them (Bice and Allen) are really nice folks and they are simply trying to keep ALJs focus on the pending claims and the very reason we were hired. It's a tough job, but the 50/monthly is the goal if you are on duty and not out on leave. If at the end of the year, you are somewhere between 400 and 600, there is nothing that anyone can do to you if you are holding policy compliant hearings and issuing legal sufficient and policy compliant decisions (If you are at 110 hearings for the year...different story). ALPO will always be there and you will have to deal with it when you get back, but coming out of 14 years of private practice, this job is a very low stress job. I am real behind on ALPO now and I will be working on it in an hour or so, but that's the life of an ALJ if you get behind. Working credit hours to catch up is a breeze compared to working nights and weekend preparing for a felony criminal jury trial.
2. Sorry, didn't mean to indicate anything about SAAs' independence, I really don't know enough about the job. I just think that it will be easier for the transition from employee to Judge if you embrace the independence that the APA provides and read your CBA closely and on a regular basis as it protects you almost as much as the APA does on a day to day basis. The HOCALJ is just your "administrative supervisor", she/he is not your Boss and as long as you let them know that in a pleasant and respectful way, it's not a bad life.
I should do well over 500 cases in my first full year, as I did 305 in my partial year with 100% AC agreement rate (all 5 of them). Now with over 30 in ALPO, I must quit running my mouth and get to work. Just my humble opinion and not looking to step on anyone's toes!
Thanks, Tiger
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 14:41:34 GMT -5
In our office, we are asked to submit schedules 6 months in advance; we are told this is due to competition between offices to lock in VE availability. Most comply but with an understanding that things do come up. A pedantic quibble: it's the Administrative Procedure Act. Not procedureS. Thanks for the correction. That's what I love about being around Attorneys and Judges, if you are wrong, someone will be kind enough to point out your minor little mistake.
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Post by redsox1 on Jan 3, 2016 15:30:44 GMT -5
As an ALJ, how much flexibility is there is say, you have to stay home with a sick child at the last minute? I would say it's office dependent. In my office, it's a nonissue because someone will likely step up or you might lose the hearings. If it happens repeatedly, you likely will have an issue.
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Post by phoenixrakkasan on Jan 3, 2016 16:34:04 GMT -5
As an ALJ, how much flexibility is there is say, you have to stay home with a sick child at the last minute? FMLA. Do not worry about these issues. What is the option? Not to take care of the child?
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Post by lizdarcy on Jan 3, 2016 16:46:48 GMT -5
As an ALJ, how much flexibility is there is say, you have to stay home with a sick child at the last minute? FMLA. Do not worry about these issues. What is the option? Not to take care of the child? I am wondering if you personally have taken FMLA leave for a day to take care of a child with a stomach virus.
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Post by luvgov on Jan 3, 2016 16:50:27 GMT -5
Pixie -
It must be nice to be in an office where you are not forced to schedule your cases 6 months in advance. I have already been required to pick my hearing days through April. I agree, the change was initially made to appease Congress and to make management look good. We have also recently been told that the new Teleworking agreement requires us to select our Flexiplace days 6 months out so we have to pick our hearing days 6 months out.
The problem - Scheduling this far out is clearly not a best practice in terms of workload because it results in increasing our Aged Caseload!
As you are aware, many cases are continued (needs development, claimant request a rep at hearing, or a no show with good cause) and if so they cannot be rescheduled until 5 to 6 months out as our dockets are already set at least 5 months out. Despite this issue, the ALJ's in our office are required to set their dockets 6 months out. If you do not do so, on many occasion there are no hearing rooms available on the days you wish to schedule as someone else has already scheduled for that day. I keep hoping that they realize the problem with this new idea and they return to scheduling 3 months out but so far, no change.
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Post by luvgov on Jan 3, 2016 16:58:26 GMT -5
I agree, if this happens on a rare occasion, it will not be a problem. However, you should have someone available who can step in during family emergencies on days that you have hearings scheduled. You have to remember, claimants have been waiting years for their hearing and much work has been completed to get the hearings scheduled.
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