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Post by judgymcjudgypants on Jun 1, 2016 14:20:39 GMT -5
Phoenix rising does bring up a point not to be overlooked, which is that some of us are NEW to this whole process. Frankly, the emphasis on the board to not bother the veterans with questions previously asked and answered creates a chilling effect. Nobody wants to be scolded for asking a question. Someone posted that they didn't think there were as many applicants in 2016 as 2013 because the chatter on the board was so quiet. Also notice that the few newbie posts to ask a question often start with an APOLOGY. I thought the purpose of the board was to be helpful, with limitations, enlightening, and encouraging.
And, yes, I have spent hours reading past posts, and there is a definite difference between 2013 and 2016.
The 2013 applicants had the luxury of guessing, speculating, and encouraging each other without the veterans getting all grumpy and asking not to be bothered. It would be nice if the 2016 applicants could have the same freedoms, maybe in just one little newbie thread that could be a criticism-free zone. No veteran has to answer any of my questions, as the veterans can just pass them by without responding.
My 2 cents, Judgymcjudgypants
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Post by sealaw90 on Jun 1, 2016 14:29:12 GMT -5
Wonder which will come first? Offers from SSA to the oldies, or emails from OPM about online testing for the newbies? If both happen the same day, this board is going to be hopping!!!!!!!! Apparently the calls have started for the oldies today, so I guess SSA and OPM are not as aligned as some would hope!
I am thinking it may be sometime next week for PM to get the ball rolling, but certainly no later than June.
Fingers crossed for you guys, really, they are.
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Post by luckylady2 on Jun 1, 2016 14:49:06 GMT -5
I think that those of us who joined the Board earlier in the Register had a tendency to look and learn for a while before we ventured into asking questions.
That was a lot easier in those days, because there weren't a bunch of folks at all different stages of the process. It was the first new Register in years, and we we all going through the same steps at the same time. Some who'd been there before and those who were insiders and had more info shared it.
We'll try not to harp too much, BUT we do ask a couple of things
1) Please do read the information at the top of the General Board - it has lots of good basic info. 2) Please do a search to see if the question has been answered or there is a thread on it. 3) Please do LOOK at the title of the thread before you start to post, if it does not directly pertain to your question, find one that does and actually read the thread before posting in it! If you really can't find one, start a new thread.
We'll try not to roll our eyes or scold.
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Post by sealaw90 on Jun 1, 2016 14:49:37 GMT -5
Phoenix rising does bring up a point not to be overlooked, which is that some of us are NEW to this whole process. Frankly, the emphasis on the board to not bother the veterans with questions previously asked and answered creates a chilling effect. Nobody wants to be scolded for asking a question. Someone posted that they didn't think there were as many applicants in 2016 as 2013 because the chatter on the board was so quiet. Also notice that the few newbie posts to ask a question often start with an APOLOGY. I thought the purpose of the board was to be helpful, with limitations, enlightening, and encouraging. And, yes, I have spent hours reading past posts, and there is a definite difference between 2013 and 2016. The 2013 applicants had the luxury of guessing, speculating, and encouraging each other without the veterans getting all grumpy and asking not to be bothered. It would be nice if the 2016 applicants could have the same freedoms, maybe in just one little newbie thread that could be a criticism-free zone. No veteran has to answer any of my questions, as the veterans can just pass them by without responding. My 2 cents, Judgymcjudgypants Not sure exactly what all the hostility is about and I do not think there is a definite difference between the earlier candidates and today's candidates. Pixie deleted the most virulent and the useless chatter has fallen down into the cracks of the threads hanging here on this board.
What I do sense is a large number (600) of folks who are sitting on the register who are frustrated beyond belief that it is still 3 years later and they are still waiting to see if they get hired. Most did not submit a new application when the register opened in March/April 2016, but instead chose to 'let it ride' on the original NOR they received in 2014.
I remember when I joined the board I didn't post anything for a few months. It was intimidating - everybody seemed to know so much and I knew so little about the process. I also noticed that the folks remaining on the 2009 register who were still getting hired had their own thread and discussed their plight amongst themselves. Us newbies were left to our own devices. We were at the beginning of the process and they were at their last gasp of a chance to get the call before their register was officially closed.
Fast forward to 2016, there have been a lot of questions asked and many have been answered. I admit that I have thought some of the questions were not worth answering and I passed them by as you suggest in your post. Some folks couldn't resist. What can I say but to offer a small apology from a small green yoda. You can only learn from what you do, not what you ask.
Some questions are unknowingly "crossing the line", i.e., violate the confidentiality agreement. Why do we get all persnickety and jump all over the conversation? Because we are all lawyers who have been trained to immediately shut down any ethics violation we see. Makes sense that a bunch of lawyers who want to be ALJs would be pretty hyper about ethics violations, right? So, it's just our 'judginess' peeking through, again no offense was really intended. We didn't want Pixie to have to shut down a thread or delete posts, us oldies have caused her enough work over these last few years.
I am sure that as more folks get hired off this register, people will mellow out and be more helpful in answering your questions or perhaps they will learn to pass on answering those questions when they are feeling snarky or tired or burned out by the process.
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 1, 2016 15:00:37 GMT -5
I think three things are at play here.
1. A bunch of us are stressed to the max waiting for offers to come and now wondering if we will get the offers.
2. We see a bunch of you guys stressing over the least stressful step in the process and quite honestly the part of the process (Application manager) that is not just opaque but actually incoherent.
3. Some questions have stepped over the line of what the Board considers the line in regard to assistance or violations of confidentiality. TBH this one takes some getting used to. There is a very collaborative vibe to the Board but then there are places where it is an absolute no go. I will also tell you that I got slapped down by ALJD fairly early on when I was new to the Board. He did it in a PM and deleted the offending stuff but I have tried to tow the line since then.
Its ok to stress about your current place in the process but what grinds my gears is when you or anyone else uses AM as part of your analysis.
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Post by blinky on Jun 1, 2016 15:26:19 GMT -5
I agree that jumping on us newbies for stressing about AM has a chilling effect. And maybe that is a good thing, or maybe it isn't. But try to remember, ethical issues notwithstanding, that most people are just trying to pass the time by connecting with others who are in the same boat (as infantile or irritating as that may seem).
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Jun 1, 2016 15:36:58 GMT -5
OK This has been belabored enough - sorry I started this. I am glad though to have put it out there that (and that some newbies seem to agree) - that the newbies were feeling chastised and put in the corner by some old timers - and shoot - we did not mean to cause problems at all! I totally understand we can ask about process - about history - but not about content of the test. (But come on a little hint...kidding).
So we do learn from you guys! Most of you guys are awesome and just post a link to the thread we need to read. That is actually a perfect response.
I hope to see good news posted soon for many of you.
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Post by deckhand on Jun 1, 2016 15:58:05 GMT -5
Ok so at some point today, my status changed from See Details to Awaiting Results. This is a very strange process.
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Post by inpatientlurker on Jun 1, 2016 16:23:20 GMT -5
I agree that jumping on us newbies for stressing about AM has a chilling effect. And maybe that is a good thing, or maybe it isn't. But try to remember, ethical issues notwithstanding, that most people are just trying to pass the time by connecting with others who are in the same boat (as infantile or irritating as that may seem). I think the stress depends on the level that you are at. I can remember how stressed I was when applying to law school and awaiting the acceptance letter. Although in the grand scheme of things that was nothing compared to awaiting the results after taking the bar exam, it was reasonable for me to be stressed about such a small obstacle in the road to becoming an attorney. I know I was just as anxious about awaiting the email notification that I could take the online component of the ALJ exam, but I also understood that this was just a small step in the process. I think all members of the board, regardless of where they are at in the process, are justified to have concerns and anxiety. It is also nice that there are so many senior members that can help you have a realistic approach of what to expect. I would agree that you cannot remain stressed throughout the entire process (that best case scenario will probably take a year or more), but a little anticipation and anxiety at every stop along the way is normal and expected. As long as you adhere to the board guidelines, I hope this remains a welcoming community for all of us. As someone that is much further in the process, I have enjoyed stepping back now and then and reading all of the speculation and anticipation in this thread. It has made me smile at times, brought back horrible memories at others, and also helped distract me from my own compulsive need for answers. Keep your heads up high, enjoy having others to share your experiences with, and good luck in your journey to a rewarding career (whether successful at becoming an ALJ or not).
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 1, 2016 18:26:54 GMT -5
Ok. Ok. You are all right. Stress away.
We that have gone before, with our stupid advice not to sweat a few weeks at this point, are wrong to "chastise," "patronize" or belittle your oh so severe, bordering on immoral inconvenience of waiting.
And I, for one, will no longer deign to offer any of my unsolicited advice to this particular cadre of applicants. I will keep my thoughts on the process, from my perspective as one who got through the entirety of it and was hired, to myself. Lest I hurt someone's feelings.
Good luck and Godspeed to all of you.
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Post by onepingonly on Jun 1, 2016 19:35:16 GMT -5
Funky is certainly capable of speaking for himself, but my take-away from his comment was that a person who is truly unnerved by the early stages of the ALJ application process may lack the nerves required to do the job. Some new folks on the board may have indulged in a touch of hyperbole for effect or humor. Maybe they're not as freaked-out as they sound. That's fine.
But as an ALJ, you will be subject to some stress. You will decide the economic fate of people who declare themselves suicidal. You can have people die waiting for your decision. People are going to be crying in your courtroom. They will tell you blood-curdling stories of abuse. They will daily share details of their lives more intimate and intrusive than they have told their doctors or spouse.
Some will threaten to kill you and your family. Some will try. Your choices will sometimes crush souls. And sometimes you will literally give hope to, or take it from, the poor, the sick, the dying, the mentally ill, the formerly strong and proud, the broken, the veteran, the criminal, the prostitute, the drug abuser, the drug dealer, the convicted child molester, the noble struggling parent. These are not theoretical. These are the real people who are entitled to our best efforts.
Some claimants will tell you of suffering so awful you'll want to cry, and then you'll be forced to deny their claim because the rule book says so. Sometimes you'll spend eight hours straight looking for the loopholes that might make justice prevail over technicality. And maybe fail. And start over the next day.
People will sit before you and tell you truths you never imagined and lies too big to counter. Day in and day out. You'll be a role model to the staff in your office, for better or worse, whether you want to or not. Your every action is under a microscope. Many people will assume you are a corrupt hack, without knowing anything more about you than your title. You'll be the highest government official most claimants ever see. Management will treat you like a child.
If you freak out, yell, lose your temper, lose patience, get flustered, claimants and their attorneys will walk all over you. They will file formal complaints against you. They will accuse you of ugly things. They will also do these things when you are fair, just, and even-tempered. The agency will not give you the benefit of the doubt. You could be removed. Other claimants will sincerely pray for you, even when you deny them.
You will publicly disclose your assets, income, investments. Claimants will google you, find your address, follow you. Federal judges and United States Senators will mock and deride you and denigrate your position. Entire websites are devoted to publishing ratings and criticisms of you.
The worst of the bad stuff does not happen every day. But it's always in the background.
I think it's a great job, the best in government, and noble and important. I have great friends in the agency. My wife and kids are proud of me. My mom never tired of telling everyone she met about her son, the judge. Some folks really respect ALJs. I love my job, and it is much less stressful than some jobs I've had.
But I do not think the faint of heart are well suited to the job of an ALJ, nor likely to acquit themselves successfully in it. If that's what Funky meant, I agree.
Wishing you all success, onepingonly
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Post by judgymcjudgypants on Jun 1, 2016 19:47:01 GMT -5
Well said, inpatient.
No matter where we each are in the process, everyone is entitled to feel how they feel, and everyone is entitled to respect no matter if they are on the first or on the final rung on the ladder.
Phoenix, I am glad you brought up the topic. It's an issue that has been on my mind since shortly after joining the board. I have done the suggested reading and followed the guidelines, and I know I am not the only one. I have been disturbed to see how quickly a newbie can get, uhm, chastised, based on assumptions, which may well be false. And, yes, I agree that possible ethical and confidentiality issues should be addressed promptly and even bluntly, but not every newbie makes this error.
I, personally, am not stressed. I am curious but not stressed I am already a judge and have been for 20 years. For some reason, I have this thing about all people being treated fairly and respectfully, with no preconceived notions in play. Wonder why that would be? :-)
Judgymcjudgypants
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Post by pumpkin on Jun 1, 2016 19:54:56 GMT -5
I have far, far less experience in this job than oneping but will add that claimants will stare at like you like you are an idiotic lunatic, because it should be clear to you that they are disabled. After all, their doctor wrote, "Charlie Brown is disabled," on a prescription pad. Why can't you understand that they are disabled? Explaining that the decision of disability is one reserved to the Commissioner rings hollow. When the unfavorable decision is received, the first criticism is that the judge is either too dumb, or too biased, to understand that their doctor wrote in plain English that they were disabled.
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Post by pumpkin on Jun 1, 2016 20:14:05 GMT -5
I have been disturbed to see how quickly a newbie can get, uhm, chastised, based on assumptions, which may well be false. -----------------------
Wisdom says, "chastised a little, they shall be greatly rewarded..."
May your chastity be rewarded with an invitation to the dance. Wait, I'm not sure I said that right...
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Post by Pixie on Jun 1, 2016 20:22:37 GMT -5
I have been disturbed to see how quickly a newbie can get, uhm, chastised, based on assumptions, which may well be false. ----------------------- Wisdom says, "chastised a little, they shall be greatly rewarded..." May your chastity be rewarded with an invitation to the dance. Wait, I'm not sure I said that right... Again Judge Pumpkin makes me laugh! Pixie.
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Post by jagvet on Jun 1, 2016 22:23:02 GMT -5
Hey, friends. Don't be discouraged when an old-timer sets you straight. It is so easy to misunderstand this arcane OPM/SSA procedure. You could spend innumerable hours obsessing on something unimportant and miss some obscure critical requirement. Some of the old timers, especially those waiting for years to get a call, have a right to be frustrated if you post, "Should I wear pink or white nail polish to the interview?" On the other hand, who else can you ask? It's anonymous, collegial, fun and friendly. Mrs. Jagvet is a great sounding board, but she doesn't know what to tell me. I know one curent and one retired ODAR ALJ, but it has been 20 years since I spoke to either, so I can't bring myself to call them and ask advice. Maybe one of them is actually here, guiding me and I don't even know it. Hang in there, laugh, and keep asking "dumb" questions. I do! Good luck, everyone!
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Post by neufenland on Jun 2, 2016 6:02:01 GMT -5
Hey, friends. Don't be discouraged when an old-timer sets you straight. It is so easy to misunderstand this arcane OPM/SSA procedure. You could spend innumerable hours obsessing on something unimportant and miss some obscure critical requirement. Some of the old timers, especially those waiting for years to get a call, have a right to be frustrated if you post, "Should I wear pink or white nail polish to the interview?" On the other hand, who else can you ask? It's anonymous, collegial, fun and friendly. Mrs. Jagvet is a great sounding board, but she doesn't know what to tell me. I know one curent and one retired ODAR ALJ, but it has been 20 years since I spoke to either, so I can't bring myself to call them and ask advice. Maybe one of them is actually here, guiding me and I don't even know it. Hang in there, laugh, and keep asking "dumb" questions. I do! Good luck, everyone! That avatar is from Judgment at Nuremberg? Bill Shatner also played an Army lawyer in The Andersonville Trial, I think. Random and off topic, but the thread could use some of that.
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Post by Pixie on Jun 2, 2016 8:06:35 GMT -5
Hey, friends. Don't be discouraged when an old-timer sets you straight. It is so easy to misunderstand this arcane OPM/SSA procedure. You could spend innumerable hours obsessing on something unimportant and miss some obscure critical requirement. Some of the old timers, especially those waiting for years to get a call, have a right to be frustrated if you post, "Should I wear pink or white nail polish to the interview?" On the other hand, who else can you ask? It's anonymous, collegial, fun and friendly. Mrs. Jagvet is a great sounding board, but she doesn't know what to tell me. I know one curent and one retired ODAR ALJ, but it has been 20 years since I spoke to either, so I can't bring myself to call them and ask advice. Maybe one of them is actually here, guiding me and I don't even know it. Hang in there, laugh, and keep asking "dumb" questions. I do! Good luck, everyone! That avatar is from Judgment at Nuremberg? Bill Shatner also played an Army lawyer in The Andersonville Trial, I think. Random and off topic, but the thread could use some of that. I think you are right. About the random and off topic, and yes, it is good for this thread. A few of our newbie posters got somewhat upset with comments made by the veteran board members. My comments, and I believe most of the others, cautioned against stressing over minor things this early in the process. In no way did I mean to limit the posting of comments or asking of questions. That is why I started this thread. Pixie.
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Post by dwNOT2balj on Jun 2, 2016 9:07:33 GMT -5
FYI. I think someone posted earlier, but some people who had "See Details Tab" early on, now are showing "Awaiting Results..." Hope springs eternal if you thought you were eliminated before even getting to play.
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 2, 2016 11:03:16 GMT -5
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