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Post by privateattorney on Mar 3, 2008 0:09:12 GMT -5
Funny you should mention that people should come to ODAR to get an ALJ. I am there - highly recommended by ALJs and the like but did not get an offer. I was just looking on USAjobs to find an agency that I could get more litigation experience from for the ALJ. I think Agency experience was not rated as high as everyone thinks in the AR. I worked for ODAR about 8 years ago. I left to get more litigation experience to qualify for an ALJ position. I already had litigation experience, but I felt I needed more to be competitive. I had prior litigation experience as a State Assistant Attorney General and have had my own private practice now for about 7 years. I was an executive editor on the law review of my law school. I have had experience as a Pro Tem Judge as well. I have been intentional about getting the experience I needed to qualify for a position as an ALJ. A former supervising attorney who is now an ALJ told me he would bet an entire month's salary I was going to get an offer. I don't think there is any magic formula. It is kinda like taking the bar exam and coming out wondering if you passed it. The only difference is this process took nearly a year, whereas the bar took about a month of my time. I think there was a song that Doris Day sang years ago that is apro pos for those of us who did not get an offer to sing at this time: Que Sera sera (Whatever will be will be). |
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Post by southerner on Mar 3, 2008 9:24:39 GMT -5
Re experience, I have been with OHA/ODAR since 1987 and a Senior Attorney for most of the time when it was available. I did 3 attorney details to Falls Church. I did not hold a formal management position, but was Acting Supervisory Staff Attorney on numerous occasions when the incumbent was involved in traing or otherwise out of the office. Before SSA, I was an Assistant United States Attorney 1980-1984 and nearly 3 years litigation practice in state courts mostly. No vets preference.
I was offered a position in the adjacent parish (county) in which I reside, even though there were vacancies in my city.
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Post by jagghagg on Mar 3, 2008 10:05:26 GMT -5
After the register reopens, we will have 1) more high scorers (moving us lowbies down the list), and 2) more peopple with greater geographical preference (at laest some of whom are going to end up getting in the way of our city choices above us). I do not currently believe (I hope I'm wrong) that another 150 will be hired before that happens. Maybe a few small certs here and there. But even with another big, 150 person cert, the potential for low scorers just isn't what we thought it might be. A new 150 would take almost everyone on the register onto the cert. Currently, the top 3/4 were on the cert. 1/3 of 3/4 were appointed. The information seems to be that only a few exceptional individuals actually jumped ahead in hiring line due to non-score related variables. Combining that info with the fact that the 1/4 of applicants who didn't make this cert contained a lot of people with no relevant geographical preference, but higher scores than those selected this time, we can deduce that if we were in the bottom 1/3 now, we'll be no higher than the middle 1/3 next time (possibly less). Sorry, Prop - I didn't follow this like I should have, I guess. It seems a little pessimistic to me. Why do you think that there will be more high scorers after this? Seems to me that there will be some with higher scores, but they will be people, like me, with limited geographical availability. That wouldn't necessarily move "lowbies" down the list. Granted, "high scorers" might snag a city on their list if it were available, but if not, then those with lower scores should have a better shot, with so many insiders gone and the geographical preferences of high scoring outsiders making them less of a "threat." Seems to me that, if not the next small hire this summer, your chances in 2009 are very good. |
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Post by Propmaster on Mar 3, 2008 15:51:17 GMT -5
After the register reopens, we will have 1) more high scorers (moving us lowbies down the list), and 2) more peopple with greater geographical preference (at least some of whom are going to end up getting in the way of our city choices above us). I do not currently believe (I hope I'm wrong) that another 150 will be hired before that happens. Maybe a few small certs here and there. But even with another big, 150 person cert, the potential for low scorers just isn't what we thought it might be. A new 150 would take almost everyone on the register onto the cert. Currently, the top 3/4 were on the cert. 1/3 of 3/4 were appointed. The information seems to be that only a few exceptional individuals actually jumped ahead in hiring line due to non-score related variables. Combining that info with the fact that the 1/4 of applicants who didn't make this cert contained a lot of people with no relevant geographical preference, but higher scores than those selected this time, we can deduce that if we were in the bottom 1/3 now, we'll be no higher than the middle 1/3 next time (possibly less). Sorry, Prop - I didn't follow this like I should have, I guess. It seems a little pessimistic to me. Why do you think that there will be more high scorers after this? Seems to me that there will be some with higher scores, but they will be people, like me, with limited geographical availability. That wouldn't necessarily move "lowbies" down the list. Granted, "high scorers" might snag a city on their list if it were available, but if not, then those with lower scores should have a better shot, with so many insiders gone and the geographical preferences of high scoring outsiders making them less of a "threat." Seems to me that, if not the next small hire this summer, your chances in 2009 are very good. Well, first of all, I might not have made sense. Since I am disappointed, it may have been more pessimistic than warranted. But let me give it another go. First of all, I am talking about after the register is reopened. Even if only another 1000 people apply and another 500 make the register, given the distribution of scores, about 60-80% of them will be higher than my score. This would essentially eliminate me from consideration for the near future (until I couls reapply in a way that would raise my score). Also, even if they don't get the new people on the register in time, the high scorers with limited availability will expand their preferences. This will allow people who otherwise were kept out of the mix back into it. This will also tend to insert several more highly qualified applicants above me (and those of my ilk). I think you might have been referring to a situation in which another big hire was made before the register reopens. I doubt that will happen (30 here, 50 there, but no 100+), but I HOPE I am wrong. I am optimistic that if SSA hires another 100 or more off this cert (at one time) I will have a good chance. If I start to hear that might happen, I'll get unwarratedly happy again. However, with budget and the need to hire support staff and the length of time it takes to do things, I am not sure SSA will beat (or even if it wants to) OPM to the punch on the register. |
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Post by Propmaster on Mar 3, 2008 16:49:09 GMT -5
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that once the register re-opens you can re-apply; knowing what you know now about the process, you may well be able to tweak your AR, write a better WD, and interview better, thereby improving your score. Don't assume that you're stuck with the score you have. I think that is true. But as was pointed out elsewhere, I don't know what was wrong! I think I did well on explaining my AR, but I lack some things that appear to be key issues for OPM scoring. And I don't know, if that was my main problem, if I want to spend all the money for WD and SI, not even knowing how I did on them last time. I will wait several years, I think, before reapplying. Fool my once, shame on you. Fool me twice... |
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Post by aljhunter on Mar 3, 2008 16:51:33 GMT -5
It is my understanding that our scores are good until sometime in 2010. It is also my understanding that if the application process opens again before our scores expire, we may sit for the WD and SI without having to "re-apply." I am open to correction!
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Post by jagghagg on Mar 3, 2008 17:06:21 GMT -5
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that once the register re-opens you can re-apply; knowing what you know now about the process, you may well be able to tweak your AR, write a better WD, and interview better, thereby improving your score. Don't assume that you're stuck with the score you have. Oh, heck - with MY luck, I'd LOWER my score!!! |
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Post by crazybroad on Mar 3, 2008 17:28:57 GMT -5
If we didn't have to do the AR again but could sit for the WD and SI. That would be great news! My luck I would not get past the AR next time, like some of my colleagues in the office. However, I have a feeling that my AR held me back because I don't have alot of management or Senior attorney experience.
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Post by happy on Mar 3, 2008 20:15:03 GMT -5
I seem to recall that we are stuck with our scores for 1 year after the Notice of Results. If the register reopens before -- what was it, October? -- then we low scorers are screwed. New folks will come in, many will score in the high 60s, 70s and 80s, and we'll just drop further and further down the register.
However, if OPM can drag its feet long enough -- after all it's their time and resources and the list isn't even a year old -- then maybe we will, in fact, have an opportunity to improve our scores, given what we now know about the process.
Here's hoping . . . .
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