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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Jun 20, 2017 8:14:53 GMT -5
My intent was simply a message to others who were feeling down: No one should let their self-worth be determined by OPM. Good Luck to you Sassy. I agree with the point you made. I hope all of you who are contemplating an appeal the best and that you either win your appeal or that you retest when they open this up again. This is a rough process. I would also add for those feeling a bit down - that sometimes it truly is a case of timing. Maybe this is not your turn - but it will be your turn. There are many posts on here that illustrate the marathon nature of several board members' journeys. I recall a post or 2 that indicated that folks had applied multiple times combined with sitting on the registry so that all told it was 6-7 years from start of process to ALJ hire.
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Post by neufenland on Jun 20, 2017 9:51:25 GMT -5
I know this thread is for the folks who made it to the in-person stage, but I was wondering if anyone who got kicked out at Stage 1 or 2 has heard anything on the appeals.
I took the online test and was told my score wasn't high enough. I initiated an appeal because my 5 points for veteran status were not reflected in the email I received from them. I think they failed to account for it (I provided them my DD Form 214 with my application, and told them as much). Now, I don't have a lot of faith that this will result in a positive determination (like many of you, I'm in the "it costs nothing, so let's throw some spaghetti at the wall and hope something sticks" camp), but I do have the appeal "assigned" to a group at OPM (got the same email that many of you are now getting).
So, anyone similarly-situated hear anything?
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Post by JudgeKnot on Jun 20, 2017 10:04:28 GMT -5
I know this thread is for the folks who made it to the in-person stage, but I was wondering if anyone who got kicked out at Stage 1 or 2 has heard anything on the appeals. I took the online test and was told my score wasn't high enough. I initiated an appeal because my 5 points for veteran status were not reflected in the email I received from them. I think they failed to account for it (I provided them my DD Form 214 with my application, and told them as much). Now, I don't have a lot of faith that this will result in a positive determination (like many of you, I'm in the "it costs nothing, so let's throw some spaghetti at the wall and hope something sticks" camp), but I do have the appeal "assigned" to a group at OPM (got the same email that many of you are now getting). So, anyone similarly-situated hear anything? I'll offer my experience from the 2013 process, which is likely being repeated here. I appealed because they cut me from contention when I didn't include the date of my bar admission. I don't know when they decided my appeal, but I didn't get the results until everyone else received their results from their appeals of the DC stage You shouldn't expect any notification regarding your appeal of the online test until the same time everyone gets their results from the DC stage. In my opinion, it doesn't offer much hope of any relief unless they are willing to offer the testing component to those who successfully appeal being cut pre-DC. I mean, if you get cut early on, and don't find out your appeal results until after the testing and interviews have been completed, what good is it to have a successful appeal? I haven't heard that they offer another round in DC, but I haven't been part of this board for all that long so I'm not sure how that all works. I won't even speculate how they deal with appeals of a vet status issue.
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Post by neufenland on Jun 20, 2017 10:14:40 GMT -5
I know this thread is for the folks who made it to the in-person stage, but I was wondering if anyone who got kicked out at Stage 1 or 2 has heard anything on the appeals. I took the online test and was told my score wasn't high enough. I initiated an appeal because my 5 points for veteran status were not reflected in the email I received from them. I think they failed to account for it (I provided them my DD Form 214 with my application, and told them as much). Now, I don't have a lot of faith that this will result in a positive determination (like many of you, I'm in the "it costs nothing, so let's throw some spaghetti at the wall and hope something sticks" camp), but I do have the appeal "assigned" to a group at OPM (got the same email that many of you are now getting). So, anyone similarly-situated hear anything? I'll offer my experience from the 2013 process, which is likely being repeated here. I appealed because they cut me from contention when I didn't include the date of my bar admission. I don't know when they decided my appeal, but I didn't get the results until everyone else received their results from their appeals of the DC stage You shouldn't expect any notification regarding your appeal of the online test until the same time everyone gets their results from the DC stage. In my opinion, it doesn't offer much hope of any relief unless they are willing to offer the testing component to those who successfully appeal being cut pre-DC. I mean, if you get cut early on, and don't find out your appeal results until after the testing and interviews have been completed, what good is it to have a successful appeal? I haven't heard that they offer another round in DC, but I haven't been part of this board for all that long so I'm not sure how that all works. I won't even speculate how they deal with appeals of a vet status issue. 10-point veterans test quarterly, and it is my understanding that in the past, they have allowed some folks to test with them if an appeal has been successful. There is no guarantee that will be the offered solution if they re-adjudicate my score based on the missing five points AND determine that's enough to move forward, but there IS, at the very least, the possibility of remedy. Otherwise, as you note, the appeal process is meaningless for everyone save those who did complete all three steps.
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 20, 2017 10:21:32 GMT -5
The notice of appeal rights states that a review will be based upon the existing record, or words kind of to that effect. This leads me to believe that they assign new grader(s) to re-grade your existing materials. An appeal letter might guide them what to look for, but our NORs don't even tell us what to look for. So, making any kind of argument in an appeal letter seems mostly useless to me. Why should they consider what's in your appeal letter when nobody else got to submit such an extraneous piece when their packages were scored? I also don't think they review your file, assign a score, and then do any other calculations on it, like averaging with your original score. That particular result would not be any kind of reflection on how you actually performed, even if (maybe ESPECIALLY if) both the original and re-score were wrong, and the average is closer to reality than either of the scores. Two wrong scores cannot make a right. An average score is arbitrary, as would be extra points or demerits for appealing in the first place. Therefore, I conclude after several sleepless nights, that they give your whole package to a new grader or team, it is scored as if no one has seen it before, and you are stuck with the outcome, good or bad. Two strikes - that's what you get. I don't see how OPM can do it any other way without risking litigation. See how I broke this up and made white space for easier reading? I do not believe they have anyone else review the SI. Those people SAW you. No one who reviews it later did. It is scored on the spot, by the interviewers. I think that's what makes appealing the SI the most difficult, as I don't know what can be changed.
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Post by flyingblind on Jun 20, 2017 17:12:23 GMT -5
A friend of mine told me that with the written demonstration there was an incident with their test group.
Edit Note by Pixie: I have deleted the parts of this message that discussed what went on in the testing room. While the discussion wouldn't give much of an unfair advantage, it still discussed that which we don't discuss. I don't have to determine if it violates the CA because it violates our rules here. A new poster who will take a while to learn the ropes
Welcome to the board even if I had to cut your post a bit short. You will catch on. Pixie.
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Post by rp on Jun 20, 2017 18:15:58 GMT -5
Uh....remember the CA folks -- Pixie will say more I am sure -- but this seems a little close.
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Post by gary on Jun 20, 2017 18:17:58 GMT -5
Uh....remember the CA folks -- Pixie will say more I am sure -- but this seems a little close. I agree.
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Post by Pixie on Jun 20, 2017 18:43:07 GMT -5
Thanks. I have taken care of it. Pixie
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Post by rhd on Jun 20, 2017 20:15:37 GMT -5
After sending my email appeal, i received an automated reply within an hour. The next day, I received another email indicating a "Changed Status to Appeals" and "Added Assignee" Thank you, Fauxdar. Same for me. I sent my appeal and got an automated response within a short time. It looked like this (edited):
Notification of Issue Registration
Workspace: ALJ Application Issue: APPEAL Issue Number: xxxxx
I have not received anything else in the last couple of days. Is that what you got plus additional e-mails after? I'll re-send, but don't want to be a pest to the poor appeals computer or otherwise gum up my appeal.
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fauxdar
Member
Just Trollin
Posts: 20
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Post by fauxdar on Jun 20, 2017 23:18:39 GMT -5
Thank you, Fauxdar. Same for me. I sent my appeal and got an automated response within a short time. It looked like this (edited):
Notification of Issue Registration
Workspace: ALJ Application Issue: APPEAL Issue Number: xxxxx
I have not received anything else in the last couple of days. Is that what you got plus additional e-mails after? I'll re-send, but don't want to be a pest to the poor appeals computer or otherwise gum up my appeal.
1) I sent my appeal at 2:30 PM on June 18 2) I received an automated response similar to yours at 2:56 PM on June 18 3) I received a second email on June 19 indicating a "Notification of Issue Change" (it changed status to "Appeals, IMWD" and added two names as "Assignee")
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Post by foghorn on Jun 21, 2017 10:44:23 GMT -5
fauxdar Looks like it. I requested access to the record and received a similar note generated from ALJapplication. Instead of appeal it had under Issue IC20Appeal1D20 which hopefully separates it from the appeal stream. If I don't hear further by Monday I will reach out to a different number or write a (gasp) hard copy letter to at least make clear that the issue query isn't the appeal proper. See what happens when I file my appeal. I'll let y'all know what happens. good luck to all!
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Post by merlot on Jun 21, 2017 11:17:00 GMT -5
fauxdar Looks like it. I requested access to the record and received a similar note generated from ALJapplication. Instead of appeal it had under Issue IC20Appeal1D20 which hopefully separates it from the appeal stream. If I don't hear further by Monday I will reach out to a different number or write a (gasp) hard copy letter to at least make clear that the issue query isn't the appeal proper. See what happens when I file my appeal. I'll let y'all know what happens. good luck to all! foghorn I just realized that my automated appeal response has the same alpha/numeric Issue that you do. I was instructed to use this per my appeal letter and assumed that everyone got the same generic/general info. Does this somehow indicate that your appeal goes to a "different stream?" Good luck to everyone!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 11:27:05 GMT -5
I don't think that "IC20" or "1D20" (or whatever those code-looking things are) mean anything. You know how sometimes % signs pop into web addresses? I think it's like that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruy%C3%A8re_%28cheese%29I had the same issue with my appeal email a few years ago.
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Post by foghorn on Jun 21, 2017 12:51:02 GMT -5
Perhaps it's to maintain the mysterious aspect of the process that so bedeviled us before--rather than just say "this will confirm receipt of your appeal" they give an obscure response; in my case it looked like the process when I had a question going into the first round of (online) testing--they'd give my question an assignment number and then respond. But, they couldn't just say "we have received your inquiry. It is # , should you have further questions use that number"
Too easy. Too clear. Not ....mysterious.
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Post by merlot on Jun 21, 2017 13:11:37 GMT -5
Perhaps it's to maintain the mysterious aspect of the process that so bedeviled us before--rather than just say "this will confirm receipt of your appeal" they give an obscure response; in my case it looked like the process when I had a question going into the first round of (online) testing--they'd give my question an assignment number and then respond. But, they couldn't just say "we have received your inquiry. It is # , should you have further questions use that number" Too easy. Too clear. Not ....mysterious. foghorn I do believe you are correct. The instructions from the appeal letter that is posted in the place that shall not be named and the one that was sent via e-mail are different. The one from the place simply says put appeal in subject line. The e -mail version says to put the alpha/numeric stuff in the subject line. Even in the midst of a foad they continue to torture us. The mystery continues.
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Post by mango54 on Jun 21, 2017 13:37:14 GMT -5
Perhaps it's to maintain the mysterious aspect of the process that so bedeviled us before--rather than just say "this will confirm receipt of your appeal" they give an obscure response; in my case it looked like the process when I had a question going into the first round of (online) testing--they'd give my question an assignment number and then respond. But, they couldn't just say "we have received your inquiry. It is # , should you have further questions use that number" Too easy. Too clear. Not ....mysterious. foghorn I do believe you are correct. The instructions from the appeal letter that is posted in the place that shall not be named and the one that was sent via e-mail are different. The one from the place simply says put appeal in subject line. The e -mail version says to put the alpha/numeric stuff in the subject line. Even in the midst of a foad they continue to torture us. The mystery continues. That was a question that I was going to pose. In one spot they say put the word appeal in the reference line. In the other they say put the alpha numerical designation. I disagreeumption is to use the alpha numerical designation. Can anyone who has already gotten a confirmation email confirm which one they did? This whole process has now got me so gun-shy I truly expect the grass to be blue and the sky to be green.
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Post by acttwo on Jun 21, 2017 15:45:43 GMT -5
foghorn I do believe you are correct. The instructions from the appeal letter that is posted in the place that shall not be named and the one that was sent via e-mail are different. The one from the place simply says put appeal in subject line. The e -mail version says to put the alpha/numeric stuff in the subject line. Even in the midst of a foad they continue to torture us. The mystery continues. That was a question that I was going to pose. In one spot they say put the word appeal in the reference line. In the other they say put the alpha numerical designation. I disagreeumption is to use the alpha numerical designation. Can anyone who has already gotten a confirmation email confirm which one they did? This whole process has now got me so gun-shy I truly expect the grass to be blue and the sky to be green.You mean they're not? Uh-oh...
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Post by rhd on Jun 21, 2017 16:47:43 GMT -5
foghorn I do believe you are correct. The instructions from the appeal letter that is posted in the place that shall not be named and the one that was sent via e-mail are different. The one from the place simply says put appeal in subject line. The e -mail version says to put the alpha/numeric stuff in the subject line. Even in the midst of a foad they continue to torture us. The mystery continues. That was a question that I was going to pose. In one spot they say put the word appeal in the reference line. In the other they say put the alpha numerical designation. I disagreeumption is to use the alpha numerical designation. Can anyone who has already gotten a confirmation email confirm which one they did? This whole process has now got me so gun-shy I truly expect the grass to be blue and the sky to be green. I responded to both, asking them to ignore whichever one was incorrect. I am now very sure that the XXXX APPEAL XXXX code is simply an artifact of the e-mail, and that all you need is the word APPEAL in the subject line. They responded to me today with an acknowledgement of my appeal based on my XXXX APPEAL XXXX e-mail. So, I'm convinced that I can't possibly be the only one who faced this major life question, and they are treating the responses appropriately.
I'm curious if they would have registered my appeal if I had "Eat me. I want to APPEAL," as the subject line. It meets their requirement.
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Post by dragon on Jun 21, 2017 17:13:59 GMT -5
I also noticed the APPEAL versus numbers/letters around APPEAL.
I used the email instruction of XXX APPEALXXX in my subject. It was accepted that way.
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