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Post by jen06 on Apr 5, 2018 9:09:27 GMT -5
Anyone know what it is like being an attorney for health and human services? Specifically dealing with some of the tribal law stuff? Would love to hear input. I work for HHS OGC in a regional office - I'll send you a PM.
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Post by chicagoirish on Apr 5, 2018 9:59:44 GMT -5
Seeing these job listings, as well as the ones I receive in my USAJobs email subscription, definitely is sobering when I see how many attorney jobs are just at the GS-12 level. My universe of reference is DoD, DHS, and DoJ, where are there a lot of GS-14 and 15s, including non-supervisory 15s with a lot of schedule flexibility and personal autonomy on your work product. I would love to know how this influences attorney retention and quality at these lower-paying agencies like HHS, Interior, etc. It seems to have been like this for a long time though, so perhaps the bean counters already have that figured it out and don't consider it an issue.
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Post by foghorn on Apr 5, 2018 11:03:57 GMT -5
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Post by jen06 on Apr 5, 2018 11:04:52 GMT -5
Seeing these job listings, as well as the ones I receive in my USAJobs email subscription, definitely is sobering when I see how many attorney jobs are just at the GS-12 level. My universe of reference is DoD, DHS, and DoJ, where are there a lot of GS-14 and 15s, including non-supervisory 15s with a lot of schedule flexibility and personal autonomy on your work product. I would love to know how this influences attorney retention and quality at these lower-paying agencies like HHS, Interior, etc. It seems to have been like this for a long time though, so perhaps the bean counters already have that figured it out and don't consider it an issue. If you read the HHS OGC listings, they put the lowest GS level they will hire at - not the maximum. The salary ranges include the higher GS14 step levels. For my particular HHS office, almost everyone is a GS14 or GS15 (supervisory and nonsupervisory). We have attorneys who started as a GS11 or GS12, but they are all expected to advance through to GS14 on a fairly predictable path. GS15 is a separate process.
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Post by chicagoirish on Apr 5, 2018 12:24:37 GMT -5
Thanks Jen06, that is encouraging to hear!
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Post by odarwinian on Apr 5, 2018 13:58:29 GMT -5
Seeing these job listings, as well as the ones I receive in my USAJobs email subscription, definitely is sobering when I see how many attorney jobs are just at the GS-12 level. My universe of reference is DoD, DHS, and DoJ, where are there a lot of GS-14 and 15s, including non-supervisory 15s with a lot of schedule flexibility and personal autonomy on your work product. I would love to know how this influences attorney retention and quality at these lower-paying agencies like HHS, Interior, etc. It seems to have been like this for a long time though, so perhaps the bean counters already have that figured it out and don't consider it an issue. Speaking as a GS-12 attorney with Social Security, I can say it is a source of frustration amongst the attorney corps, but we deal with it. In OHO, GS-12 is basically as high as you can go as an attorney, unless you are able to secure one of the coveted Senior Attorney positions (that don't seem to exist anymore) or you can transition into management, which isn't for everyone. The reality, though, is that you have a really nice quality of life, good benefits, a flexible schedule, and generally good folks. You are not going to pull down the big bucks, but I would venture most don't go into public service thinking they are going to get rich anyhow.
I have seen several GS-12 attorneys jump ship, however, if something better comes along as the mental challenge in the decision writer position is not always that great. That, and I think some chafe at the idea that a paralegal is making the same as them without the hefty student loans. Just MHO.
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Post by futuramafry on Apr 5, 2018 23:19:01 GMT -5
Greetings all, I am unfortunately in the appeal process - no word yet - because I failed to properly document my experience. On the bright side - there are jobs out there. I live in California so I put out a great number of applications via the cal jobs site - calcareers.ca.gov/Default.aspxI have secured a state position as an ALJ I for the CA Department of Social Services with a start date of Feb 1, 2018. The pay is less than the federal position, but it's a start. I just put that out there for people to think about your state job opportunities. Best of luck Robb You’ve probably (hopefully) heard this from someone by now, but if not; be proactive about scheduling and completing the 20 hours of judicial council training. You’ll get a five percent salary raise effective the first day of the pay period following completion. Plus, the bump will stay with you if you move to a higher ALJ classification.
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Post by sealaw90 on Apr 6, 2018 6:25:05 GMT -5
The link didn't work for me. Can you please let us know the position title so we can search for it? Thanks
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Post by desert2beach on Apr 6, 2018 6:45:48 GMT -5
The link didn't work for me. Can you please let us know the position title so we can search for it? Thanks Sealaw:
It's a GS014 Attorney Advisor in Arlington, VA. Here's the Announcement number: NCHT186683207834R.
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Post by acttwo on Apr 7, 2018 22:46:51 GMT -5
A bit off thread, as the the thread seems to be going along fed jobs, but just cracked open a book I ordered about privacy law. I have thought about getting certified as a privacy professional for about 18, 20 months, just as Plan C or D, but now with the Facebook brouhaha, etc., I am really thinking it might be a good time to try. Just wondering if anyone else had had that thought? Joined IAPP a couple years back and they do seem welcoming, if anyone is interested. I am also looking at the certified fraud examiner credential. Thinking as cybercrime grows, hiring entities won't care so much about my age. Lots of reading ahead for me. But first, gotta get on the register!
Good luck to us all!
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Post by foghorn on Apr 8, 2018 15:05:46 GMT -5
A bit off thread, as the the thread seems to be going along fed jobs, but just cracked open a book I ordered about privacy law. I have thought about getting certified as a privacy professional for about 18, 20 months, just as Plan C or D, but now with the Facebook brouhaha, etc., I am really thinking it might be a good time to try. Just wondering if anyone else had had that thought? Joined IAPP a couple years back and they do seem welcoming, if anyone is interested. I am also looking at the certified fraud examiner credential. Thinking as cybercrime grows, hiring entities won't care so much about my age. Lots of reading ahead for me. But first, gotta get on the register! Good luck to us all! There are many jobs for those with FOIA & Privacy Act expertise--I know that's not what this was about but if you are looking to be marketable that's a niche that may be more accessible with a law degree. Privacy as to the internet is evolving, and it seems to me the best track would be to get some experience, perhaps by doing volunteer legal work with some group that handles those issues--which would also let you talk to those in the field about your thoughts. Certifications are as valid as the place that issues them. Note that for-profit-colleges had to set up their own certifying body, which has done about as good a job as you'd expect--which is to say pretty slipshod.
But that is the outside of the box thinking that is needed while in a seeming hamster wheel of an application process.
Keep us posted on what you find.
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Post by foghorn on Apr 8, 2018 15:06:29 GMT -5
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Post by acttwo on Apr 8, 2018 16:06:27 GMT -5
Whoa! Someone is thinking! If indeed it is becoming a seller's market with regard to highly skilled workers, yes, the Feds are going to have to move from the black hole model. I have been begging my brother (a lawyer) to make a federal resume for months, years. Just heard that after applying for a job where he would be a good fit, he's soured on trying again. Said it took months to hear his application had been received, then months to learn if he was referred and finally six months to learn he was out. Now, he is not on the board and so not used to the glacial pace as we are, but methinks he is an example of how public service drives away good candidates. And he is a boomer, can you imagine the "we expect instant gratification as Millennials" being patient with a not so transparent system? Bravo to OPM if they can nudge the hiring agencies a bit. It might make OPM's job easier, too!
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Post by acttwo on Apr 8, 2018 16:24:45 GMT -5
A bit off thread, as the the thread seems to be going along fed jobs, but just cracked open a book I ordered about privacy law. I have thought about getting certified as a privacy professional for about 18, 20 months, just as Plan C or D, but now with the Facebook brouhaha, etc., I am really thinking it might be a good time to try. Just wondering if anyone else had had that thought? Joined IAPP a couple years back and they do seem welcoming, if anyone is interested. I am also looking at the certified fraud examiner credential. Thinking as cybercrime grows, hiring entities won't care so much about my age. Lots of reading ahead for me. But first, gotta get on the register! Good luck to us all! There are many jobs for those with FOIA & Privacy Act expertise--I know that's not what this was about but if you are looking to be marketable that's a niche that may be more accessible with a law degree. Privacy as to the internet is evolving, and it seems to me the best track would be to get some experience, perhaps by doing volunteer legal work with some group that handles those issues--which would also let you talk to those in the field about your thoughts. Certifications are as valid as the place that issues them. Note that for-profit-colleges had to set up their own certifying body, which has done about as good a job as you'd expect--which is to say pretty slipshod.
But that is the outside of the box thinking that is needed while in a seeming hamster wheel of an application process.
Keep us posted on what you find.
Foghorn, you read my mind. I have been attending seminars and conferences about data security and privacy for about four years now and I don't see it cooling down any time soon. There are several certifying groups out there b/c the need for help hit fast and hard and employers are afraid to let just anyone have the keys to the vault, as it were. No promise the certificates were meaningful, but they gave some HR managers plausible deniability if things went south. There are many different aspects to the field. Four years ago at my first conference, the IT guys laughed and wondered why a lady lawyer would be there. Now those same gents are telling me they are so glad to have me there, realizing now just how much a legal/regulatory professional can help. If you like puzzles, enjoy analyzing systems and/or creating solutions to complex issues, you will like this. If you are also a bit of a nerd, enjoy learning how the latest and greatest tech works, like I am, it is fun. And lastly, if you have a sense of national security, learning to keep the bad guys out is an added plus. No need for a STEM degree, just the ability to think logically and pull together the tech guys as needed. It isn't for everyone, but wanted to share. The need is great and as the world grows more interconnected, somebody has to come up with rules for the new Wild West.
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Post by JudgeKnot on Apr 8, 2018 19:47:28 GMT -5
acttwo have you watched the series, Person of Interest? It was a CBS series, now available on Netflix. My wife isn't into computers at all, but the story had her hooked enough for us to get through all five seasons in a couple of months. Not wanting to give away too much, here's how it's described in IMDB: An ex-assassin and a wealthy programmer save lives via a surveillance AI that sends them the identities of civilians involved in impending crimes. However, the details of the crimes--including the civilians' roles--are left a mystery.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 20:57:03 GMT -5
A bit off thread, as the the thread seems to be going along fed jobs, but just cracked open a book I ordered about privacy law. I have thought about getting certified as a privacy professional for about 18, 20 months, just as Plan C or D, but now with the Facebook brouhaha, etc., I am really thinking it might be a good time to try. There are many jobs for those with FOIA & Privacy Act expertise--I know that's not what this was about but if you are looking to be marketable that's a niche that may be more accessible with a law degree. P
Keep us posted on what you find.
You guys need to read this.... Journalist Once Called a ‘FOIA Terrorist’ Sees Uptick in Government Secrecywww.courthousenews.com/foia-journalist-sees-uptick-government-secrecy/
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Post by acttwo on Apr 9, 2018 0:05:31 GMT -5
acttwo have you watched the series, Person of Interest? It was a CBS series, now available on Netflix. My wife isn't into computers at all, but the story had her hooked enough for us to get through all five seasons in a couple of months. Not wanting to give away too much, here's how it's described in IMDB: An ex-assassin and a wealthy programmer save lives via a surveillance AI that sends them the identities of civilians involved in impending crimes. However, the details of the crimes--including the civilians' roles--are left a mystery. I LOVED that show! Need to go back and watch it all in order!
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Post by acttwo on Apr 9, 2018 0:12:05 GMT -5
There are many jobs for those with FOIA & Privacy Act expertise--I know that's not what this was about but if you are looking to be marketable that's a niche that may be more accessible with a law degree. P
Keep us posted on what you find.
You guys need to read this.... Journalist Once Called a ‘FOIA Terrorist’ Sees Uptick in Government Secrecywww.courthousenews.com/foia-journalist-sees-uptick-government-secrecy/ FOIA terrorist? Jeepers, 8 out of 10 of the emails I get are FOIA requests. Not much sexy or terrifying there. Guess I'm not working in a sexy area! That's fine by me.
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Post by foghorn on Apr 10, 2018 12:25:40 GMT -5
Sad that there's a sexual assault acronym--SASH --but here's a job that may allow you to shape policy if you have experience handling such complaints/issues; location is Long Island-- www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/496213300
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Post by foghorn on Apr 10, 2018 12:29:12 GMT -5
PS--above job is one of those with a timeline "first 200 received or close date, whichever comes first"
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