|
Post by SPN Lifer on Jun 1, 2018 13:50:25 GMT -5
The judicial salary plan (JSP) grades and steps are identical to those of the General Schedule (GS), including locality pay and step increase time-points, except that the judiciary never adopted the Senior Executive Service (SES).
So they still have the super-grade counterparts to GS-16, etc., not something you would need to concern yourself with as an assistant federal public defender.
|
|
|
Post by miaeli on Jun 2, 2018 11:04:40 GMT -5
For those interested: Attorney Advisor www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/501081600Department: Department of Health And Human Services Agency: Office of the Secretary of Health and Human Services Number of Job Opportunities & Location(s): many vacancies - Arlington County, Virginia Salary: $56,233.00 to $106,012.00 / Per Year Series and Grade: GS-0905-9/12 Open Period: Friday, June 1, 2018 to Thursday, June 14, 2018 Position Information: Permanent - Full-Time Who May Apply: Open to the public
|
|
|
Post by foghorn on Jun 2, 2018 16:49:59 GMT -5
About 6 GAO jobs that look quite interesting, if you have a background in financial services industry regualation OR cybersecurity & related issues OR bids and bid protests check them out.
|
|
|
Post by mentor67 on Jun 2, 2018 16:58:10 GMT -5
Hi, Just wanted to say that everything that has been said here about how hard it is to negotiate an extra bump in pay coming from outside is accurate. I had to come in as a GS 9 with 10 years of legal experience. That being said I was bumped up to a GS 12 in 24 mos. which is in line with what was promised. So...I wouldn't let the initial pay cut scare you off. Just my two cents for what it's worth. I have been a Fed for about the last 10 years and when I came in it was from the private sector. The hours are much better in govt. land.
|
|
|
Post by aljwishhope on Jun 2, 2018 18:41:24 GMT -5
Hi, Just wanted to say that everything that has been said here about how hard it is to negotiate an extra bump in pay coming from outside is accurate. I had to come in as a GS 9 with 10 years of legal experience. That being said I was bumped up to a GS 12 in 24 mos. which is in line with what was promised. So...I wouldn't let the initial pay cut scare you off. Just my two cents for what it's worth. I have been a Fed for about the last 10 years and when I came in it was from the private sector. The hours are much better in govt. land. it is annoying to me that in order to work for the government you have to accept a salary less than you are worth. And even if you are a fed in order to get a job you may have to take a pay cut. I really want to work for HHS. Honestly I do not have the litigation or HHS experience, I think, to qualify as subject matter OGC Attorney. (Which are GS13/14) However I would be great at the decision writer type attorney jobs, given my more than 10 years experience writing. The highest salary I could get is gs12. I would take it because I have no power against the federal pay system. Take a $40k pay cut or no job. But the agency would get Gs14 quality work. But at least I was in an agency where I could rise to GS14. Hey maybe I was overpaid:) Such is life!
|
|
|
Post by Serious, J. on Jun 2, 2018 21:25:48 GMT -5
Hi, Just wanted to say that everything that has been said here about how hard it is to negotiate an extra bump in pay coming from outside is accurate. I had to come in as a GS 9 with 10 years of legal experience. That being said I was bumped up to a GS 12 in 24 mos. which is in line with what was promised. So...I wouldn't let the initial pay cut scare you off. Just my two cents for what it's worth. I have been a Fed for about the last 10 years and when I came in it was from the private sector. The hours are much better in govt. land. it is annoying to me that in order to work for the government you have to accept a salary less than you are worth. And even if you are a fed in order to get a job you may have to take a pay cut. I really want to work for HHS. Honestly I do not have the litigation or HHS experience, I think, to qualify as subject matter OGC Attorney. (Which are GS13/14) However I would be great at the decision writer type attorney jobs, given my more than 10 years experience writing. The highest salary I could get is gs12. I would take it because I have no power against the federal pay system. Take a $40k pay cut or no job. But the agency would get Gs14 quality work. But at least I was in an agency where I could rise to GS14. Hey maybe I was overpaid:) Such is life! And the next time some politician mentions that federal employees are overpaid compared to the private sector, you get to think about that. Because if a politician says it, it must be true.
|
|
|
Post by Pixie on Jun 2, 2018 21:50:20 GMT -5
it is annoying to me that in order to work for the government you have to accept a salary less than you are worth. And even if you are a fed in order to get a job you may have to take a pay cut. I really want to work for HHS. Honestly I do not have the litigation or HHS experience, I think, to qualify as subject matter OGC Attorney. (Which are GS13/14) However I would be great at the decision writer type attorney jobs, given my more than 10 years experience writing. The highest salary I could get is gs12. I would take it because I have no power against the federal pay system. Take a $40k pay cut or no job. But the agency would get Gs14 quality work. But at least I was in an agency where I could rise to GS14. Hey maybe I was overpaid:) Such is life! And the next time some politician mentions that federal employees are overpaid compared to the private sector, you get to think about that. Because if a politician says it, it must be true. It may not be true, but if repeated enough, many will believe it is true. Hard times are ahead. Pixie
|
|
|
Post by foghorn on Jun 3, 2018 13:15:31 GMT -5
And the next time some politician mentions that federal employees are overpaid compared to the private sector, you get to think about that. Because if a politician says it, it must be true. It may not be true, but if repeated enough, many will believe it is true. Hard times are ahead. Pixie It occurs to me that as with even law firms, certainly corporations, they'd rather hire those with less experience, pay them less, even if the product suffers, than pay them more and get a better product due to the experience and skills of the older attorney candidate. There's also the fact that many jobs are clearly for those within the agency as they ask for someone with x years handling certain regulations or a body of agency law. Realistically, only those in house will apply as those outside the agency have, in all likelihood, used their experience to obtain as much if not more income than they would if they went with uncle. Or their notices are excercises in wishful thinking -- but in the end the effect will be to hire someone from within unless there's an individual who left due to a personal or family event and now is on the market. The market is unfortunate in its demands for those who meet most but not all of the demands. You takes your money and makes your choice (however circumscribed). As in life, many limitations will apply.
|
|
|
Post by aljwishhope on Jun 3, 2018 17:54:43 GMT -5
I get it Foghorn but government hires 10 new attorneys at GS9. Half of them suck but will continue to advance to GS12 in 3 years. Instead government could hire 5 experienced especially federal attorneys for whom you can speak to supervisors and see PAPs so you know what you are getting.
In writing thisI see the rub. You have to be an extremely poor employee to get a bad PAP. Further I do not know how candidate supervisors are when called.
So I guess with AA job Just as with ALJ I just will hope for the best.
|
|
|
Post by desert2beach on Jun 3, 2018 19:43:04 GMT -5
Hi, Just wanted to say that everything that has been said here about how hard it is to negotiate an extra bump in pay coming from outside is accurate. I had to come in as a GS 9 with 10 years of legal experience. That being said I was bumped up to a GS 12 in 24 mos. which is in line with what was promised. So...I wouldn't let the initial pay cut scare you off. Just my two cents for what it's worth. I have been a Fed for about the last 10 years and when I came in it was from the private sector. The hours are much better in govt. land. it is annoying to me that in order to work for the government you have to accept a salary less than you are worth. And even if you are a fed in order to get a job you may have to take a pay cut. I really want to work for HHS. Honestly I do not have the litigation or HHS experience, I think, to qualify as subject matter OGC Attorney. (Which are GS13/14) However I would be great at the decision writer type attorney jobs, given my more than 10 years experience writing. The highest salary I could get is gs12. I would take it because I have no power against the federal pay system. Take a $40k pay cut or no job. But the agency would get Gs14 quality work. But at least I was in an agency where I could rise to GS14. Hey maybe I was overpaid:) Such is life! The unfortunate reality is that lawyers have become a commodity. Story time. About 4 years ago, I organized hiring a new attorney for our office. We advertised on usajobs and did not limit who could apply. We received 702 resumes for one opening. The reality for most agencies is that if you don’t accept their position, they have 10 others who will. Agency leaders talk about caring about employees, but we’re all fungible to them. Those statements of support fall flat. Millenials (sp?) have it right - there’s no loyalty to you, so get the best deal you can for yourself wherever you can get it.
|
|
|
Post by grassgreener on Jun 4, 2018 6:55:42 GMT -5
[/quote] The unfortunate reality is that lawyers have become a commodity. Story time. About 4 years ago, I organized hiring a new attorney for our office. We advertised on usajobs and did not limit who could apply. We received 702 resumes for one opening.
The reality for most agencies is that if you don’t accept their position, they have 10 others who will. Agency leaders talk about caring about employees, but we’re all fungible to them. Those statements of support fall flat.
Millenials (sp?) have it right - there’s no loyalty to you, so get the best deal you can for yourself wherever you can get it. [/quote]
Despite the pay cut, federal govt jobs are highly coveted by some. We had accomplished attorneys apply for paralegal jobs, just to get in the door. The decision writing staff at my OHO consists of several former claimant’s rep. While they took a pay cut, none of them seem to regret leaving the practice. It all depends on what you value.
|
|
Milliron
Full Member
Part of the problem
Posts: 84
|
Post by Milliron on Jun 4, 2018 9:17:44 GMT -5
The unfortunate reality is that lawyers have become a commodity. Story time. About 4 years ago, I organized hiring a new attorney for our office. We advertised on usajobs and did not limit who could apply. We received 702 resumes for one opening. The reality for most agencies is that if you don’t accept their position, they have 10 others who will. Agency leaders talk about caring about employees, but we’re all fungible to them. Those statements of support fall flat. Millenials (sp?) have it right - there’s no loyalty to you, so get the best deal you can for yourself wherever you can get it. [/quote] Despite the pay cut, federal govt jobs are highly coveted by some. We had accomplished attorneys apply for paralegal jobs, just to get in the door. The decision writing staff at my OHO consists of several former claimant’s rep. While they took a pay cut, none of them seem to regret leaving the practice. It all depends on what you value.[/quote] A good friend of mine took a paralegal job when he had 15 years litigation experience just to get in the door. He’s a GS-14 for ICE now.
|
|
|
Post by foghorn on Jun 4, 2018 12:59:45 GMT -5
aljwishhope--the other factor I left out is that unlike law firms, most screening is done by HR types, on whom the distinctions you or I make are lost.
I've been willing to take a pay cut of sorts in order to get a"steady" job with Uncle but so far no go. Way more experience than most, but for nought so far.
|
|
|
Post by stevil on Jun 4, 2018 14:01:39 GMT -5
Hi, Just wanted to say that everything that has been said here about how hard it is to negotiate an extra bump in pay coming from outside is accurate. I had to come in as a GS 9 with 10 years of legal experience. That being said I was bumped up to a GS 12 in 24 mos. which is in line with what was promised. So...I wouldn't let the initial pay cut scare you off. Just my two cents for what it's worth. I have been a Fed for about the last 10 years and when I came in it was from the private sector. The hours are much better in govt. land. it is annoying to me that in order to work for the government you have to accept a salary less than you are worth. And even if you are a fed in order to get a job you may have to take a pay cut. I really want to work for HHS. Honestly I do not have the litigation or HHS experience, I think, to qualify as subject matter OGC Attorney. (Which are GS13/14) However I would be great at the decision writer type attorney jobs, given my more than 10 years experience writing. The highest salary I could get is gs12. I would take it because I have no power against the federal pay system. Take a $40k pay cut or no job. But the agency would get Gs14 quality work. But at least I was in an agency where I could rise to GS14. Hey maybe I was overpaid:) Such is life! I was in solo private practice for three years, and worked for a medium sized firm, and I can tell you that I never worked less than 50-60 hour weeks. The biggest benefit one gets as a fed is a 40-hour work week, which makes work/life balance possible. Time is the one commodity that is truly limited. Taking a pay cut to save time may not be a bad trade-off. You will never be wealthy working for the government, but you can have a life and still be an attorney.
|
|
|
Post by chicagoirish on Jun 4, 2018 20:35:23 GMT -5
"I was in solo private practice for three years, and worked for a medium sized firm, and I can tell you that I never worked less than 50-60 hour weeks. The biggest benefit one gets as a fed is a 40-hour work week, which makes work/life balance possible. Time is the one commodity that is truly limited. Taking a pay cut to save time may not be a bad trade-off. You will never be wealthy working for the government, but you can have a life and still be an attorney."
Yep, this sums it up for me. It's similar advice that I give to my fellow military officers when they leave the service and contemplate law firm life. It's why I have not gone back to the private sector. For me, the extra free time and retirement benefits are worth forgoing the $200K plus income.
|
|
|
Post by foghorn on Jun 5, 2018 15:00:25 GMT -5
"forgoing the $200K plus income." *
* which due to the market, firm overhead in relation to billables, company shut downs, insurer disputes, may vary, and the size may appear larger than it actually is. Sic transit gloria somniorum
|
|
|
Post by A.L. Cool J on Jun 5, 2018 21:45:45 GMT -5
Does proof of an active law license matter?
I applied for one of the jobs discussed in this thread. The posting included proof of an active law license among the required documents. Though I scanned my bar card and made a screen-shot of the state’s licensure verification page, I neglected to upload this proof to USA Jobs, much less attach it to my application.
Today I was surprised to receive notification that I was qualified for the job and referred to the hiring agency.
Question(s): Do the application-screeners care about proof of licensure? Is it likely that the hiring agency kick me out the running? Or, did lightning strike twice, and the person who reviewed this application was the same person who let me test for the ALJ exam even though my application omitted the day of my bar admission?
|
|
|
Post by aljwishhope on Jun 5, 2018 23:26:45 GMT -5
ALCool J. I think you just lucked out.
|
|
|
Post by foghorn on Jun 6, 2018 11:10:12 GMT -5
ALCoolJ you are obviously a chosen person. Walk in the light, go forth and be ye selected.
|
|
|
Post by aljwishhope on Jun 6, 2018 11:34:13 GMT -5
Government hiring oh boy. Long ago I got a rejection for a VA job. Today I got a tentative offer by email. I have until tomorrow to decide!
Good to know that I have not aged out of getting offers.
Will sleep on decision.
I welcome any thoughts from VA attorneys.Salary even negotiated is low. Is there overtime?
|
|