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Post by acttwo on Oct 15, 2017 0:05:43 GMT -5
And no conniptions over which type of bar certification you got either! (wendy must have the good computer skills--my job search for Judge also pulls in all the cook positions that are $17.50 per hour--shows what my computer thinks of my search for judge type positions). OH Foghorn, we respect your search for a robe! So with the other spot, is it okay to say you work with a bunch of a**es? |
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wendy
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Post by wendy on Oct 21, 2017 15:01:26 GMT -5
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Post by foghorn on Oct 21, 2017 17:59:00 GMT -5
Seems to require an in depth knowledge of VA regs, decisions--
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Post by mercury on Oct 21, 2017 18:02:07 GMT -5
Seems to require an in depth knowledge of VA regs, decisions-- According to my SSA friends, a significant plurality of those hired recently were from SSA. Experience reviewing medical records and evaluating disability is desired. |
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Post by foghorn on Oct 23, 2017 12:32:11 GMT -5
here's a GS 15 if you know environmental regs, federal land acquisition law, etc.https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/482479000
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Post by seaprongs on Oct 23, 2017 12:36:26 GMT -5
Seems to require an in depth knowledge of VA regs, decisions-- According to my SSA friends, a significant plurality of those hired recently were from SSA. Experience reviewing medical records and evaluating disability is desired. Longtime lurker, first time poster. Does anyone have any insight on what it's like to work for the VA? Is promotion to GS-14 a matter of time in grade or is there more to it? A lot of the complaints I've seen/heard about this job are similar to the things I heard about SSA before joining (i.e. production crunch). I'd like a job with more promotion potential, but I don't think I'd want to leave for the VA if the promotion potential was hard to attain and/or the working environment was bad. |
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Post by foghorn on Oct 23, 2017 15:14:09 GMT -5
According to my SSA friends, a significant plurality of those hired recently were from SSA. Experience reviewing medical records and evaluating disability is desired. Longtime lurker, first time poster. Does anyone have any insight on what it's like to work for the VA? Is promotion to GS-14 a matter of time in grade or is there more to it? A lot of the complaints I've seen/heard about this job are similar to the things I heard about SSA before joining (i.e. production crunch). I'd like a job with more promotion potential, but I don't think I'd want to leave for the VA if the promotion potential was hard to attain and/or the working environment was bad. there are a number of positions but it may depend on if you are working for the judges or the Apopeals Board |
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Post by seaprongs on Oct 24, 2017 7:51:12 GMT -5
there are a number of positions but it may depend on if you are working for the judges or the Apopeals Board The Grade progression to gs-14 is pretty much automatic unlike SSA. I should mention that just like SSA the VA is all about numbers. I also think veteran law is a bit more complicated, but similar. Ok, thanks. I had heard that about the numbers. I've never had problems with meeting production expectations at SSA. I guess the numbers are reasonable to hit if you're used to that kind of grind? |
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Post by neufenland on Oct 27, 2017 8:41:54 GMT -5
The Grade progression to gs-14 is pretty much automatic unlike SSA. I should mention that just like SSA the VA is all about numbers. I also think veteran law is a bit more complicated, but similar. Ok, thanks. I had heard that about the numbers. I've never had problems with meeting production expectations at SSA. I guess the numbers are reasonable to hit if you're used to that kind of grind? You make 14 as a matter of course at the Board. One year as an 11, one as a 12, two as a 13, and then your "journeyman" grade is 14. You can compete for Senior Counsel (15) and/or VLJ...good luck. Law is more complex than SSA, but not unmanageable. The issue is, as others have stated, production. All about the numbers. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 6:08:11 GMT -5
Now this is an awesome position, if you don’t mind living near DC: Attorney Advisor (Appeals Officer), GS-12: $79,720.00 - $103,639.00; GS-13: $94,796.00 - $123,234.00; Promotion Potential GS 14 The mission of the National Appeals Division (NAD) is to conduct impartial administrative appeals hearings and reviews of adverse program decisions made by officers, employees or committees of designated agencies of USDA. As an Attorney Advisor at the National Office in Alexandria, Virginia, you will provide expert advice regarding legal aspects of second-level appeals under agency jurisdiction. You will examine case records and evidentiary hearings, conduct legal research and fact-finding, and recommend and prepare NAD Director Review determinations that are the final administrative decisions for USDA on these appeals. For more information visit the National Appeals Division Homepage at www.nad.usda.gov/ www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/482152300 |
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Post by foghorn on Oct 30, 2017 13:59:38 GMT -5
Now this is an awesome position, if you don’t mind living near DC: Attorney Advisor (Appeals Officer), GS-12: $79,720.00 - $103,639.00; GS-13: $94,796.00 - $123,234.00; Promotion Potential GS 14 The mission of the National Appeals Division (NAD) is to conduct impartial administrative appeals hearings and reviews of adverse program decisions made by officers, employees or committees of designated agencies of USDA. As an Attorney Advisor at the National Office in Alexandria, Virginia, you will provide expert advice regarding legal aspects of second-level appeals under agency jurisdiction. You will examine case records and evidentiary hearings, conduct legal research and fact-finding, and recommend and prepare NAD Director Review determinations that are the final administrative decisions for USDA on these appeals. For more information visit the National Appeals Division Homepage at www.nad.usda.gov/ www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/482152300 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 15:15:30 GMT -5
If I understand correctly, this position would be the equivalent of one at the Appeals Council for SSA (except it is at USDA). You can search and review their Administrative Judge decisions here: usda-nad-local1.entellitrak.com/etk-usda-nad-prod-temp/page.request.do?page=page.searchDeterminations.styled (just do a date search and it will bring up a list). In my humble opinion, SSA ALJ decisions are much more thorough and professional than those that come out of NAD. If you have never seen one from NAD, should definitely take a minute to view one. It makes one wonder how easy it would be to be a NAD judge. When I looked at possibly applying for one of their judge positions about a year ago the announcement said the position did not require a law degree (which I thought was very odd). |
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Post by beenlurking on Oct 30, 2017 17:10:35 GMT -5
Please don't throw me in that briar patch!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 17:49:22 GMT -5
Oh, don’t get me wrong... I wouldn’t turn down an NAD Admin Judge gig even if it doesn’t require a law degree. Just wish the pay was like an ALJ’s...
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Post by neufenland on Oct 31, 2017 7:43:30 GMT -5
If I understand correctly, this position would be the equivalent of one at the Appeals Council for SSA (except it is at USDA). You can search and review their Administrative Judge decisions here: usda-nad-local1.entellitrak.com/etk-usda-nad-prod-temp/page.request.do?page=page.searchDeterminations.styled (just do a date search and it will bring up a list). In my humble opinion, SSA ALJ decisions are much more thorough and professional than those that come out of NAD. If you have never seen one from NAD, should definitely take a minute to view one. It makes one wonder how easy it would be to be a NAD judge. When I looked at possibly applying for one of their judge positions about a year ago the announcement said the position did not require a law degree (which I thought was very odd). Sort of like AC AAJs, except these USDA AO jobs top out at GS-14 and don't have the same pay scale as ALJs like AAJs do. Looks like they are more akin to the AC AO job. Does USDA also have AAJs, then, at the NAD since I think only Article III judges and AAJs can review ALJ decisions...
I don't think so. They review decisions of USDA Administrative Judges, who are not ALJs. The Admin Judges top-out at 14 and, as someone else noted, that position doesn't technically require a law degree (although most, I assume, do have one, and it would likely be a preferred qualification). The Appeals Officer job is for attorneys only, I think, but you write decisions for the Director of the NAD to sign. I would think that means a fair amount of autonomy, but no, no AAJ to sit between the Appeals Officer and the Director. I think the USDA Admin Judge job looks interesting, though. The position used to be called "Hearing Officer" or something along those lines, so you can see why it's not a 0905 position (in other words, it doesn't have to be an attorney). Attorney or not, 14 seems low for that job (I think it should promote to 15), but if given the choice, I'd rather be in the field as an Admin. Judge than an Appeals Officer. I've worked a job very similar to the USDA AO job for many years in a different agency (different set of laws, obviously) and already am a 14. I applied to USDA the last time the opening came around and was referred but not interviewed. My application for Admin. Judge disappeared into the ether; I never heard back from that. Anyway, I suppose there's no loss as regards pay, but it looked interesting. |
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Post by denise on Oct 31, 2017 9:06:54 GMT -5
Would working as a Hearing Officer have a negative effect on ALJ aspirations? I know some experience isn't qualifying in terms of the ALJ application. I imagine if you have the requisite 7 years of qualifying experience it doesn't really matter.
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Post by neufenland on Oct 31, 2017 11:15:13 GMT -5
Would working as a Hearing Officer have a negative effect on ALJ aspirations? I know some experience isn't qualifying in terms of the ALJ application. I imagine if you have the requisite 7 years of qualifying experience it doesn't really matter. Probably wouldn't count as admin law experience to make the 7, as I think "Hearing Examiner" or something like that is specifically excluded. Someone who has the job announcement handy can post the exact language, but they do list examples of what doesn't count, and I would think the USDA AJ job would fit there based on how it is described. I think if the Admin. Judge job was coded as an Attorney-Examiner position, it would definitely count, but as it isn't (and as you don't technically need a JD to do that job), it likely falls outside of the experience requirement necessary to clear the first hurdle if one is attempting to eventually make the ALJ Register. |
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Post by foghorn on Oct 31, 2017 11:58:26 GMT -5
Would working as a Hearing Officer have a negative effect on ALJ aspirations? I know some experience isn't qualifying in terms of the ALJ application. I imagine if you have the requisite 7 years of qualifying experience it doesn't really matter. Probably wouldn't count as admin law experience to make the 7, as I think "Hearing Examiner" or something like that is specifically excluded. Someone who has the job announcement handy can post the exact language, but they do list examples of what doesn't count, and I would think the USDA AJ job would fit there based on how it is described. I think if the Admin. Judge job was coded as an Attorney-Examiner position, it would definitely count, but as it isn't (and as you don't technically need a JD to do that job), it likely falls outside of the experience requirement necessary to clear the first hurdle if one is attempting to eventually make the ALJ Register. I believe if the hearings are on the record it would qualify: "o be considered as qualifying experience, the types of cases handled under this requirement must have been conducted on the record under procedures at least as formal as those prescribed by sections 553 through 559 of title 5 of the United States Code." and "preparing opinions; hearing cases; participating in or conducting arbitration, mediation, or other alternative dispute resolution process approved by the administrative body; or participating in appeals related to the types of cases above." |
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Post by ssa on Oct 31, 2017 13:04:14 GMT -5
Probably wouldn't count as admin law experience to make the 7, as I think "Hearing Examiner" or something like that is specifically excluded. Someone who has the job announcement handy can post the exact language, but they do list examples of what doesn't count, and I would think the USDA AJ job would fit there based on how it is described. I think if the Admin. Judge job was coded as an Attorney-Examiner position, it would definitely count, but as it isn't (and as you don't technically need a JD to do that job), it likely falls outside of the experience requirement necessary to clear the first hurdle if one is attempting to eventually make the ALJ Register. I believe if the hearings are on the record it would qualify: "o be considered as qualifying experience, the types of cases handled under this requirement must have been conducted on the record under procedures at least as formal as those prescribed by sections 553 through 559 of title 5 of the United States Code." and "preparing opinions; hearing cases; participating in or conducting arbitration, mediation, or other alternative dispute resolution process approved by the administrative body; or participating in appeals related to the types of cases above." Yes - and although the OHO atty advisor job is coded 0905, you don’t need a JD to do that decision writer job, either (if you’re hired as a paralegal instead of atty), yet it definitely counts as qualifying experience. |
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Post by neufenland on Nov 1, 2017 8:33:50 GMT -5
Probably wouldn't count as admin law experience to make the 7, as I think "Hearing Examiner" or something like that is specifically excluded. Someone who has the job announcement handy can post the exact language, but they do list examples of what doesn't count, and I would think the USDA AJ job would fit there based on how it is described. I think if the Admin. Judge job was coded as an Attorney-Examiner position, it would definitely count, but as it isn't (and as you don't technically need a JD to do that job), it likely falls outside of the experience requirement necessary to clear the first hurdle if one is attempting to eventually make the ALJ Register. Yes quite a few people in the 0930 (hearing officer/appeals) series with law degrees have transitioned into the ALJ job. In fact quite a few from this particular job. Hearing examiner is not excluded, but someone in the claims examining position is. The claims examine position is completely different, and mostly involves positions such as patent examiner or adjudicators at DOL. Most of the claims examiner jobs are in the 0996 series. "Claims Examiner" was what I was remembering from the announcement. I stand corrected. |
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