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Post by intothewild on Aug 15, 2020 14:39:03 GMT -5
So, for those of us mid-career, GS 12 or 13's who now look to be out of the ALJ/AAJ running, and have no general attorney skills since we've been doing disability for 7-10 years, what do we do? Many of us are too far down the road to change paths, but still 10-15 years or more to retirement. Do we jump ship? Go back to school and retrain for yet another career? There seems to be no good answer. But any advice is appreciated! Going back to school is a terrible choice right now. Gaining experience is more important than more education. In 10-15 years you can gain quite a few valuable skills in a part time position while working at SSA. Or you can just jump to another federal agency. |
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Post by nappyloxs on Aug 15, 2020 14:57:20 GMT -5
This thread sure has taken a 180 from "Maybe ALJs will be hired soon" to "We are all going to lose our jobs in the next 10 years" I am not one for optimism, but AI will not replace ALJs. AI can already do a better job of making "correct" decisions than ALJs. The most meaningful part of the ALJ job is not deciding cases, it is hearing cases. And ensuring that claimants feel that they are being heard. A computer will never do that. A computer cannot look someone in the eye and say "I hear you and understand your argument," and make the actual emotional/psychological connection that only humans (and maybe really cute animals?) can make. That is why ALJs exist, to have a neutral human actually interact with you so that you are ensured that it is not just a faceless beaurocracy making decisions, but an actual person who you know has heard you and understands your position. Theoretically AI could replace more of the writing, but if that happens it would be very gradual. And if you are a writer who is not perpetually looking for other jobs, well you are doing it wrong! Chances of getting past a 13 (or even getting a 13) have always been slim to none. However if you are cool with riding a 12 into retirement, I really would not worry about it. You are on point. AI will not eliminate due process. There will always be some type of adjudication level. It may be hearing officer, ALJ, AAJ, who knows. The agency wants to use AI at DDS level, not at appeal level. We live in OHO world. To put it nicely, OHO is a very small part of SSA. SSA is wants AI to filter records at initial/recon level, analyze buzzwords in the records and compare to listings, generate rfc, compare to PRW/DOT, and spit out initial determinations. They spend millions on the DDS and have been trying to do this for 10+ years. They are not thinking much about the next level (OHO) other than trying to keep options open. Proposed budgets have mentioned attorneys at DDS, now AAJs may hold hearings. Honestly, there are too many layers and things need to change. Initial, Recon, ALJ, AC, DC. It should not take 5 levels to correctly decide if someone is disabled or not. Btw, this made me wonder when and why the AC was created? I remember being told a little about history long ago, but forgot. If I recall correctly, initially the was a disability panel, the hearing officers, and hearing officers became ALJs. There was no AC until what 80-90s? What was even the purpose of the AC initially? Was it the same as it is now? Old age is catching up with me. |
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Post by Loopstok on Aug 15, 2020 17:37:51 GMT -5
Btw, this made me wonder when and why the AC was created? I remember being told a little about history long ago, but forgot. If I recall correctly, initially the was a disability panel, the hearing officers, and hearing officers became ALJs. There was no AC until what 80-90s? What was even the purpose of the AC initially? Was it the same as it is now? Old age is catching up with me. Not to wander too far down memory lane, but when I first got exposed to SSD practice twenty years ago, the Appeals Council was on the chopping block. There was a CFR provision for eliminating AC review, and a few pilot hearing offices where ALJ denials would be appealed directly to District Court. I heard someone who was three or four degrees removed from SSA (i.e. plenty of room for a game of Telephone to spoil whatever the original message was) speculate that the plan was to flood District Courts with SSA appeals and galvanize the creation of a U.S. Disability Court, similar to U.S. Bankruptcy Court.
Commisioner Barnhart started the DSI program, which turned the AC into the Decision Review Board - or, if you will, the Favorable Decision Review Board - in which you could pay to appeal an ALJ denial to District Court, but the DRB had to invite itself to get involved with what used to be free AC review. Along with the DRB was the creation of a "Federal Reviewing Official" - basically an Attorney Examiner, exactly what an AAJ is now, holding a rudimentary interview with a claimant and signing their own decision - in lieu of recon, and the ALJ was hearing an appeal of the FRO denial rather than the recon denial.
So DSI would have changed initial/recon/ALJ/AAJ/District Court to initial/FRO/ALJ/DRB for select FF decisions/District Court for everything else. DSI made the most logical sense to me of all SSA's various schemes over the past 20 years (I wasn't around for HPI), but I'm a dilettante, not an Agency manager.
All this is to say that there has never been any real continuity to SSA's plans for OHA/ODAR/OHO.
Only in the last few years has there been a big push to replace the ALJ level with AAJs. The dreadful language in the AAJ NPRM, which said that AAJs had the same experience and skills as ALJ (paraphrasing) was a warning that the current top levels of SSA management either didn't understand what ALJs do... or didn't care, and figured they could replace ALJs with staff attorneys. This is perhaps the scariest moment ALJs have faced in my 20 years in/out of the field.
So my absence-of-optimism is based on the mental gyrations SSA is going through to will into being the "fact" that ALJs are expendable. Which is very uncomfortable, when you happen to be one of the facts that needs expending. Then again, if there's a change in the Executive Branch next year, there could be a housecleaning or redirection at SSA, and ALJs might become in fashion again. So who knows... who knows.
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Post by carrickfergus on Aug 16, 2020 10:43:58 GMT -5
Didn't the recent budget offered by the house include language that no SSA funds can be used towards furthering the proposal for AAJ hearings?
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Post by ssaogc on Aug 16, 2020 10:46:03 GMT -5
Didn't the recent budget offered by the house include language that no SSA funds can be used towards furthering the proposal for AAJ hearings? I believe it was non binding recommendation |
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Post by marathon on Aug 16, 2020 12:04:57 GMT -5
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Post by ba on Aug 16, 2020 17:22:29 GMT -5
I’ve had cases where the claimant died in a car accident while their claim was pending or other nonimpairment related deaths. I imagine that wasn’t taken out of this statistic. I’m not saying the statistic isn’t unfortunate, but I am guessing it isn’t entirely accurate. |
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Post by aljhopefully on Aug 19, 2020 21:57:00 GMT -5
Oh, you should see veterans appeals. "Dead upon arrival" cases were common when I was there. Tragic. |
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Post by nylawyer on Aug 20, 2020 19:18:36 GMT -5
I’ve had cases where the claimant died in a car accident while their claim was pending or other nonimpairment related deaths. I imagine that wasn’t taken out of this statistic. I’m not saying the statistic isn’t unfortunate, but I am guessing it isn’t entirely accurate. So, let me do some math here. 110,000 deaths over 11 years. That's easy- 10k per year. Roughly 1% of the US population dies each year. There are over 2 million applications per year. When I put it that way, 110k seems low. Of course, that's not a fair statistical analysis. Obviously, the US death rate includes a large number of people over 65, whereas SSI applicants will (generally) be younger than that. Still, I'd have to say that of my cases where the claimant died prior to the hearing, if you exclude the overdose cases, the majority were not found to have died from something related to their disability application. |
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Post by windycitygirl on Aug 20, 2020 20:18:53 GMT -5
Does anyone know whether being a judge for an Indian tribal court will count as good experience to become an SSA ALJ? I would think the experience would be valuable, but I’m not sure how SSA would view tribal court experience.
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Post by carrickfergus on Aug 21, 2020 8:33:53 GMT -5
I think it would be viewed quite favorably. Back in the day, as long as the minimum qualifications existed, a diverse background was a plus. But who knows what's going on w/TPTB now.
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Post by soon2balj on Oct 7, 2020 0:28:08 GMT -5
Seriously, when will SSA post to fill positions?
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Post by fowlfinder on Oct 7, 2020 10:08:31 GMT -5
Seriously, when will SSA post to fill positions? No idea. They are still under their freeze issued in August 2019. That would have to be lifted before they go ahead with any hiring or posting beyond the very limited positions identified in the freeze. |
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Post by roymcavoy on Oct 7, 2020 11:34:36 GMT -5
Seriously, when will SSA post to fill positions? No idea. They are still under their freeze issued in August 2019. That would have to be lifted before they go ahead with any hiring or posting beyond the very limited positions identified in the freeze. in its FY 2020 budget request, SSA indicated that it expected to have 1320 ALJs in service at the end of FY2020. One of the ALJs on here can probably inform us how many their metrics indicate are working at the present time, but I think they are above that number and have a decreased caseload, both seemingly results of COVID. |
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Post by fowlfinder on Oct 7, 2020 12:59:59 GMT -5
No idea. They are still under their freeze issued in August 2019. That would have to be lifted before they go ahead with any hiring or posting beyond the very limited positions identified in the freeze. in its FY 2020 budget request, SSA indicated that it expected to have 1320 ALJs in service at the end of FY2020. One of the ALJs on here can probably inform us how many their metrics indicate are working at the present time, but I think they are above that number and have a decreased caseload, both seemingly results of COVID. The last numbers I saw showed 1375 "on duty" and 1288 "available" as of July 2020. |
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Post by johnthornton on Oct 7, 2020 13:59:44 GMT -5
Don't hold your breath for SSA ALJ hiring.
In our office, they reduced our scheduled hearings for December and January due to lack of work. Judges who requested fifty cases were reduced to thirty cases.
We were told that this was a national problem.
I don't see much hiring for the near future.
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Post by Thomas fka Lance on Oct 8, 2020 7:53:15 GMT -5
Don't hold your breath for SSA ALJ hiring. In our office, they reduced our scheduled hearings for December and January due to lack of work. Judges who requested fifty cases were reduced to thirty cases. We were told that this was a national problem.I don't see much hiring for the near future. While the problem may be widespread, it is not national. I have throughout the pandemic requested and received 50 (or more if I dare take a vacation, lol) hearings per month. Those slots were filled. For various reasons not all went to hearing, but it was not for lack of cases. |
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Post by SPN Lifer on Oct 8, 2020 10:51:05 GMT -5
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Post by nylawyer on Oct 8, 2020 12:43:55 GMT -5
Don't hold your breath for SSA ALJ hiring. In our office, they reduced our scheduled hearings for December and January due to lack of work. Judges who requested fifty cases were reduced to thirty cases. We were told that this was a national problem.I don't see much hiring for the near future. While the problem may be widespread, it is not national. I have throughout the pandemic requested and received 50 (or more if I dare take a vacation, lol) hearings per month. Those slots were filled. For various reasons not all went to hearing, but it was not for lack of cases. I have all but one of my hearing slots filled in November and December, but some of those appear to be the same cases I've had calendared multiple times before where we don't have a working phone number for the claimant. But, that's with a transfer of cases in from another office. We heard from RCALJ that the agency is in fact running out of cases nationwide. So, I would not expect a hiring anytime soon. |
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Post by Pixie on Oct 8, 2020 17:13:52 GMT -5
Done. Thanks. We have never been to good at staying on topic. and I am one of the worst offenders. Pixie |
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