RIFs?

[superalj]

Any scuttlebutt about the possibility of RIFs? I don’t know about you all, but I’m getting fewer and fewer hearings scheduled well under what the TPTB want scheduled.

[jimmy224]

Can’t see RIFs happening with Democrats in White House. Might just wind up sitting around with nothing to do and getting paid for it (not that I am complaining

[aa7]

You would hope first they offer some early out retirement

[nylawyer]

I think it will in part depend on whether the current shortage is viewed as a temporary anomaly or as the long term trend.

This is purely just a guess, but I would expect the agency would try to avoid a RIF. As I understand it, for a RIF it's last hired is first fired, and (again purely as a guess) I would think the agency would not want to lose the last couple of classes.

Unless it was with the goal of rehiring them as AAJ's.

[icemaster]

And this opinion is from me, a person who absolutely does not know WHAT the hell he is talking about and so I’m offering my completely uninformed WILD ASS GUESS.

I don’t think the Agency has established its NEW NORMAL yet.   With the vaccine coming into the pipeline, a mass amount of people unable to access ‘in person’ governmental resources, and no knowledge of whether the restoration of ‘in person’ services will result in an influx of new applications, I would think it would advantageous to wait, at least, until the end of 2021 to determine what the agency services will look like and how the public responds to a Post Vaccine environment.

But, again, I don’t know a thing so I will defer to my colleagues who are more connected.

[ssaogc]

I feel we will be getting an avalanche of cases post COVID. Hospitality and tourism industry will take years to rebound. Also, folks in skilled jobs may be having problems with POST Covid effects. 60 minutes had a segment on these folks Sunday.

My sister who is a computer programmer and had CoVID says she cannot keep up with her work due to brain fog issues.

[nylawyer]

I have now typed and then deleted two long paranoid rants.

I think it's beginning to get to me. I need to be allowed outside

[lurkerbelow]

Well, I'll take a stab at RIFing off of Roggenbier's style:

A man once watched government agencies, and noted that government agencies are slow, lazy creatures. They are very slow to change and quick to stop changing, much like a cat. However, they do not purr when rubbed, no matter how hard they are poked or stabbed. Surely, such a slow, lazy creature would not be in a hurry to make a major change when an opportunity to be lazy appears, such as a coming new master?

A man notices that perhaps this is smart of the creatures, who serve mercurial masters. Such laziness and invisibility is highly prized by the masters, as the many strange and slow creatures of the government are all but invisible to those the masters speak to in order to keep their power over the creatures.

A man doubted any RIFs will happen.  Was the man right?  All shall know by February.

[nylawyer]

Cats are slow to change?

[christina]

Dec 2, 2020 17:04:12 GMT -5 nylawyer said:

I have now typed and then deleted two long paranoid rants.

I think it's beginning to get to me. I need to be allowed outside

Yeah I feel bad for u being in ny. Got more ability to move around where I’m at

[barkley]

To continue stylized musings. . .

A woman sees a man with great disappointment, who desires to burn down the mansion as he is pushed out the door. The household staff sees an opportunity to redecorate after the ashes are cleared. The furniture in the attic is designated to be repurposed. The old furniture is repainted in Section F Blue, and taken out to the curb on January 19. With no furniture in the mansion, the attic furniture is brought in to take the place of the old.


Talk me off the ledge. And tell me retirement eligible employees still have rights if they are converted to "at will."

[carrickfergus]

Let's see if you can back away from the ledge a bit. I have no doubt SSA would love to get as many employees into schedule F as possible, ala OPM (88%!), but ALJs are still ALJs, whether exempt or competitive, and thus covered under the APA removal protections. It's an obvious defense to reclassifying to schedule F, and AALJ should probably seek a preliminary injunction. And it would appear to be an easy way fight a removal if ALJs were in fact reclassified (Act > EO). I know that the APA protections are threatened by Seila, but I don't see that resolving before 01/21, at which point the EO will be scuttled.

That leaves us with the issue of AJs conducting hearings. It would take a little more doing, but IIRC a few years back congress strongly dissuaded SSA from going forward with that scheme (and that was when it was under GOP control). If AALJ lobbyist(s?)can get the Congressional Review Act rolling, I bet that goes away as well.

[roymcavoy]

Dec 4, 2020 16:07:37 GMT -5 carrickfergus said:

Let's see if you can back away from the ledge a bit. I have no doubt SSA would love to get as many employees into schedule F as possible, ala OPM (88%!), but ALJs are still ALJs, whether exempt or competitive, and thus covered under the APA removal protections. It's an obvious defense to reclassifying to schedule F, and AALJ should probably seek a preliminary injunction. And it would appear to be an easy way fight a removal if ALJs were in fact reclassified (Act > EO). I know that the APA protections are threatened by Seila, but I don't see that resolving before 01/21, at which point the EO will be scuttled.

That leaves us with the issue of AJs conducting hearings. It would take a little more doing, but IIRC a few years back congress strongly dissuaded SSA from going forward with that scheme (and that was when it was under GOP control). If AALJ lobbyist(s?)can get the Congressional Review Act rolling, I bet that goes away as well.

regarding AAJs holding hearings, first, the caseload is so low right now, they don’t have to have AAJs hear cases. That is not likely to change before Jan 20.

Second, which piggy-backs onto my first point, I have a hard time believing SSA will put its weight behind AAJs holding hearings without a few test balloons that have gone to and returned from US DCs/CCs and been upheld. I personally can see a US DC judge being skeptical of the due process afforded a claimant when an AAJ holds a hearing and another AAJ at that same level thereafter handles the appeal.

And this assumes that the new admin even supports this plan. As I have stated before, it’s not clear that Gruber et al think this is a great idea—as we have all seen, it’s possible they supported it as a means to protect themselves from being terminated. With a new Admin, it’s possible (I’d say likely) that this plan is scrapped along with many EOs.

Now, don’t take this to mean I am not aware that something crazy can happen personnel-wise before Jan 20. Totally possible, maybe even likely. I just don’t think the AAJ situation with ALJ RIF is the likely one.

[hopefalj]

Dec 5, 2020 8:23:44 GMT -5 roymcavoy said:

Dec 4, 2020 16:07:37 GMT -5 carrickfergus said:

Let's see if you can back away from the ledge a bit. I have no doubt SSA would love to get as many employees into schedule F as possible, ala OPM (88%!), but ALJs are still ALJs, whether exempt or competitive, and thus covered under the APA removal protections. It's an obvious defense to reclassifying to schedule F, and AALJ should probably seek a preliminary injunction. And it would appear to be an easy way fight a removal if ALJs were in fact reclassified (Act > EO). I know that the APA protections are threatened by Seila, but I don't see that resolving before 01/21, at which point the EO will be scuttled.

That leaves us with the issue of AJs conducting hearings. It would take a little more doing, but IIRC a few years back congress strongly dissuaded SSA from going forward with that scheme (and that was when it was under GOP control). If AALJ lobbyist(s?)can get the Congressional Review Act rolling, I bet that goes away as well.

regarding AAJs holding hearings, first, the caseload is so low right now, they don’t have to have AAJs hear cases. That is not likely to change before Jan 20.

Second, which piggy-backs onto my first point, I have a hard time believing SSA will put its weight behind AAJs holding hearings without a few test balloons that have gone to and returned from US DCs/CCs and been upheld. I personally can see a US DC judge being skeptical of the due process afforded a claimant when an AAJ holds a hearing and another AAJ at that same level thereafter handles the appeal.

And this assumes that the new admin even supports this plan. As I have stated before, it’s not clear that Gruber et al think this is a great idea—as we have all seen, it’s possible they supported it as a means to protect themselves from being terminated. With a new Admin, it’s possible (I’d say likely) that this plan is scrapped along with many EOs.

Now, don’t take this to mean I am not aware that something crazy can happen personnel-wise before Jan 20. Totally possible, maybe even likely. I just don’t think the AAJ situation with ALJ RIF is the likely one.

Oh, it’s clear. She’s been pushing this agenda through the tenures of at least three different commissioners for two different presidents. She has zero understanding of the hearing process, and frankly, zero concern about it. She’s operations to the core and seems intent on removing as much of the adjudication portion of our process as she can.

[lurkerbelow]

Dec 5, 2020 16:12:10 GMT -5 hopefalj said:

Oh, it’s clear. She’s been pushing this agenda through the tenures of at least three different commissioners for two different presidents. She has zero understanding of the hearing process, and frankly, zero concern about it. She’s operations to the core and seems intent on removing as much of the adjudication portion of our process as she can.

I wish that distinctions like "operations" and "adjudication" didn't exist.  I know it's pretty much impossible in today's federal workforce, but wouldn't it be nice to be a part of an organization working together in sync and harmony to swiftly administer the programs directed by law for the benefit of the American people?  That'd be kinda cool, and, you know, better.

[roggenbier]

A man has worn many faces, he has yet to understand all these strange words. Is a man to understand a RIF to be like the Great RIF Valley in Africa? A man has learned there are APT to be EFT, which leaves this man in SCHED status when he would rather move on. A man thinks a RIF is rather like RIP, all rather dead letters. So thinks a muddled morning man.

[hapi2balj]

Although there are some risks to employment stability which occur to me as possible results, I'll beat the old horse of an independent ALJ Corps - or an ALJ Corps under OPM - with assignment out to agencies. We should not be "employees" of Labor, SSA, etc. The appearance of impartiality, at least to the average individual (remember the "reasonable person" concept?), suffers.

As for the disastrous EOs issued by the current regime, may they be invalidated in toto January 21. And may our friends in Congress & elsewhere get that confounded Lucia problem out of the way. The SCOTUS members who aren't fans of the administrative state have cracked the door on a management nightmare for the courts & it needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.

As for agency leadership which provides administration to ALJs - the ones I'm familiar with need to be reassigned (I'm being charitable). Besides, they won't be needed if all ALJs are consolidated into one Corps as we should be. AND, any administrative reviewers above ALJs should themselves be qualified ALJs who've run our gauntlet (which, fingers crossed, will shortly be reinstated).

I think RIFs are unlikely. I also don't expect any early outs to be offered.

Stepping down from soapbox now.

PS To our SSA colleagues who have opined there will be a COVID spike in benefits applications, how could there not be?

[neufenland]

Dec 7, 2020 11:10:24 GMT -5 hapi2balj said:

Although there are some risks to employment stability which occur to me as possible results, I'll beat the old horse of an independent ALJ Corps - or an ALJ Corps under OPM - with assignment out to agencies. We should not be "employees" of Labor, SSA, etc. The appearance of impartiality, at least to the average individual (remember the "reasonable person" concept?), suffers.

As for the disastrous EOs issued by the current regime, may they be invalidated in toto January 21. And may our friends in Congress & elsewhere get that confounded Lucia problem out of the way. The SCOTUS members who aren't fans of the administrative state have cracked the door on a management nightmare for the courts & it needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.

As for agency leadership which provides administration to ALJs - the ones I'm familiar with need to be reassigned (I'm being charitable). Besides, they won't be needed if all ALJs are consolidated into one Corps as we should be. AND, any administrative reviewers above ALJs should themselves be qualified ALJs who've run our gauntlet (which, fingers crossed, will shortly be reinstated).

I think RIFs are unlikely. I also don't expect any early outs to be offered.

Stepping down from soapbox now.

PS To our SSA colleagues who have opined there will be a COVID spike in benefits applications, how could there not be?

United States Administrative Law Adjudication Agency.  "Use-Ah-La."

Maybe a Board would be better? "USALAB." "Use-Ah-Lab" does kind of roll off the tongue.    

I'll vote for that.  

[roymcavoy]

Dec 8, 2020 23:12:45 GMT -5 Top Tier said:

Maybe Saul is going to get riffed...

"Social Security Works recently released its “transition report,” dated November 2020, for the incoming Biden administration. Chief among the group’s recommendations is that the next president should “clean house,” forcing Commissioner Andrew Saul to resign or be fired and replacing all political appointees at the agency."

www.govexec.com/management/2020/12/advocacy-group-urges-biden-clean-house-social-security-lessen-impact-payroll-tax-deferral/170597/

make fun all you want, he got me this shiny-a$$ new laptop that randomly restarts during the day without warning or apology

[jagvet]

Are we all on Planet Earth? Let's say Saul is fired and he doesn't get a court to block it, at least for a while. The old career people who ran the show between Astrue and Saul take over. Remember them? I do. I can't see them doing any of the stuff in the article. Then Biden nominates someone like Elizabeth Warren to run SSA and make these administrative changes to make it harder to fire employees and make ALJs happier. What chance does that person have of getting confirmed in a GOP-led Senate (assuming arguendo)? For four years, the careerists run SSA and change nothing.

Does anyone remember Biden ever promising to make those changes to DIB and SSI? He is not going to do it. If Saul resigns, fine. If not, I'll bet that on January 19, 2025, Commissioner Saul has a farewell party and dreamers on this blog will be predicting that his successor will finally make all these changes.

Here's my prediction (again): Nothing changes.