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Post by rightspeech on Aug 9, 2021 21:03:43 GMT -5
Both of you seem to have an unfounded fear of management or an admirable commitment to public service beyond that of what is required.
ALJs do not lose their jobs involuntarily. Ask around it doesn't happen. You both have probably been around longer than me and you know that
ALJs don't have production reqirements you have an expectation. You do not get performance ratings. If you're giving up leave that you are entitled to take, that's on you that's your admirable choice.
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Post by recoveringalj on Aug 9, 2021 21:09:40 GMT -5
Maybe we could measure each Member’s/Senator’s productivity? Even if we didn’t count for the 2/3 of the year they are not in session, I’m not sure they’d meet it.
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Post by okthen on Aug 9, 2021 21:12:58 GMT -5
The line ALJ makes more than the Senator that represents millions of people. Line ALJs adjudicate about $125,000,000 worth of benefits per year. I don’t want just anybody doing it. You absolutely do want people at the top of their profession. And to get talent, it costs money and a good salary. I have done your job. I can tell you think the Judges have it made, and it’s an easy gig. I probably shared those sentiments from time to time when I did what you do. And being a Judge is a good gig, but there is definitely more of a mental and emotional burden you bear as a Judge that you don’t comprehend as a writer. Having to put your name behind the denial (or trying to your best to get a decision correct) is not what you think it is, and it doesn’t just occur lightly. |
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Post by rightspeech on Aug 9, 2021 21:13:50 GMT -5
Half of them would say the lack of productivity is a feature not a bug.
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Post by nylawyer on Aug 9, 2021 21:19:04 GMT -5
Both of you seem to have an unfounded fear of management or an admirable commitment to public service beyond that of what is required. ALJs do not lose their jobs involuntarily. Ask around it doesn't happen. You both have probably been around longer than me and you know that ALJs don't have production reqirements you have an expectation. You do not get performance ratings. If you're giving up leave that you are entitled to take, that's on you that's your admirable choice. So, if ALJs are making this "admirable choice", then maybe their salary isn't so "outrageous"? |
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Post by rightspeech on Aug 9, 2021 21:28:34 GMT -5
The line ALJ makes more than the Senator that represents millions of people. Line ALJs adjudicate about $125,000,000 worth of benefits per year. I don’t want just anybody doing it. You absolutely do want people at the top of their profession. And to get talent, it costs money and a good salary. I have done your job. I can tell you think the Judges have it made, and it’s an easy gig. I probably shared those sentiments from time to time when I did what you do. And being a Judge is a good gig, but there is definitely more of a mental and emotional burden you bear as a Judge that you don’t comprehend as a writer. Having to put your name behind the denial (or trying to your best to get a decision correct) is not what you think it is, and it doesn’t just occur lightly. No question ALJ is a much more difficult job than writer. I can only imagine the mental toll it must take to have to actually make the decision of lifting this person out of poverty or homelessness and giving them access to healthcare or sending them back to a tent in the woods must take. However, lay juries sentence people to death everyday in this country. I'm not sure that it takes someone at the "top" of the legal profession to do it. Where is that top level legal experience needed? The black letter law is not all that complicated. All the interpretation of case law is handled by OGC and passed down via SSR. Witness credibility is not really at issue, so that experience you get from litigation is not particularly needed. |
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Post by rightspeech on Aug 9, 2021 21:30:02 GMT -5
Both of you seem to have an unfounded fear of management or an admirable commitment to public service beyond that of what is required. ALJs do not lose their jobs involuntarily. Ask around it doesn't happen. You both have probably been around longer than me and you know that ALJs don't have production reqirements you have an expectation. You do not get performance ratings. If you're giving up leave that you are entitled to take, that's on you that's your admirable choice. So, if ALJs are making this "admirable choice", then maybe their salary isn't so "outrageous"? But that's just one individual, perhaps that individual feels some guilt some need to go above and beyond to justify their compensation |
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Post by okthen on Aug 9, 2021 21:36:33 GMT -5
Line ALJs adjudicate about $125,000,000 worth of benefits per year. I don’t want just anybody doing it. You absolutely do want people at the top of their profession. And to get talent, it costs money and a good salary. I have done your job. I can tell you think the Judges have it made, and it’s an easy gig. I probably shared those sentiments from time to time when I did what you do. And being a Judge is a good gig, but there is definitely more of a mental and emotional burden you bear as a Judge that you don’t comprehend as a writer. Having to put your name behind the denial (or trying to your best to get a decision correct) is not what you think it is, and it doesn’t just occur lightly. No question ALJ is a much more difficult job than writer. I can only imagine the mental toll it must take to have to actually make the decision of lifting this person out of poverty or homelessness and giving them access to healthcare or sending them back to a tent in the woods must take. However, lay juries sentence people to death everyday in this country. I'm not sure that it takes someone at the "top" of the legal profession to do it. Where is that top level legal experience needed? The black letter law is not all that complicated. All the interpretation of case law is handled by OGC and passed down via SSR. Witness credibility is not really at issue, so that experience you get from litigation is not particularly needed. I should have taken 10 seconds to read your prior posts. It would have saved me this non-sense. This is your MO on here. Have a good rest of the night. I am done feeding you. |
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Post by Topperlaw on Aug 10, 2021 6:35:42 GMT -5
320k in 22 years is extremely optimistic. At 2.0% average per year, it’s like 280k. And no guarantee you get 2.0% avg. last 14 years, the average is barely over$320,000 Actually the AVERAGE COLA for feds over the past 50 years is 3.7 percent per year. www.fedsmith.com/2021/01/10/50-years-federal-pay-democrats-v-republicans/That would turn our current $185000 a year job into a $411.000 a year job in 22 years. Thanks to this insane runaway spending, inflation is going to be ridiculous. Just like Carter, we'll eventually have to get 8-10% COLAs a year. |
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Post by okthen on Aug 10, 2021 10:01:49 GMT -5
Actually the AVERAGE COLA for feds over the past 50 years is 3.7 percent per year. www.fedsmith.com/2021/01/10/50-years-federal-pay-democrats-v-republicans/That would turn our current $185000 a year job into a $411.000 a year job in 22 years. Thanks to this insane runaway spending, inflation is going to be ridiculous. Just like Carter, we'll eventually have to get 8-10% COLAs a year. Your quote has kind of mangled up the prior texts and who wrote them. Appreciate the cite to last 50 years though. Last 14 years and the 1%+ avg seems more telling for current situation to me. Though I do concede that inflation may throw everything out of whack. Not sure what is really true in that realm. We have had some weird ebbs and flows (e.g. appliances, lumbar, houses, used cars, wages for certain industries, etc) during this pandemic. Will be interesting to see what it looks like once (if???) we are clear of it in a couple years. |
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Post by TigerLaw on Aug 11, 2021 0:36:01 GMT -5
I don't know why anyone would come back after retirement (other than financial reasons), but I haven't heard that plan. I don't think it will happen as we have HOCALJs and other ALJs with short dockets due to the unavailable cases, but in these times, who knows. But if I got bored in retirement, coming back to this job would be the next to last thing I would do with getting a root canal as the last thing I would do after retirement!  Believe it or not, there are a number of people who retire without plans or post-retirement goals. They find themselves suddenly faced with tons of empty time with nothing to do after spending their lives working and achieving things. They become restless, annoy their spouse, etc. It is unfortunate. I long ago resolved to be like my great uncle. He counted the days to his retirement at age 58 (had a sweet pension and low overhead) because he was going to play golf 4-5 days a week, keep a garden, travel to see family around the country with my great aunt, and drink beer while watching the local professional teams. And you know what he did the last 25 years of his life? Enjoyed every day playing golf, gardening, traveling, and drinking Corona. You’ve got plans, so you’ll leave and never look back. I have a few years longer than you do, but I also have no shortage of things I’d rather do than go to work every day. I can believe that a person holding an advance degree beyond a college education would simply not work through the post-retirement issues, but as a former First Sergeant in the United States Army, a former civil and criminal defense attorney, and now an ALJ, I firmly believe that those individuals are in the VERY slim minority, very slim! I would estimate less than 1%, but this is all a joke as the Agency will never rely on retired ALJs to do the job that a new ALJ will gladly do full time! |
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Post by superalj on Aug 11, 2021 12:11:15 GMT -5
Well said Top!
Bring on the baby (or butter bar) ALJs!
We have so many well qualified and motivated folks on this board who are more than ready to get their chance.
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Post by nylawyer on Aug 13, 2021 17:56:04 GMT -5
For those who don't get to see the union emails, an interesting tidbit today- since the last hire, over 500 ALJs have left the agency.
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Post by intothewild on Aug 13, 2021 19:19:00 GMT -5
For those who don't get to see the union emails, an interesting tidbit today- since the last hire, over 500 ALJs have left the agency. So is that good news? Would love a spot. |
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Post by hamster on Aug 13, 2021 20:22:08 GMT -5
I find that hard to believe. Google says US Senator makes $174k salary. Most ALJs in my 'rest of US' locality pay office made 181.5k in 2020 according to fedsdatacenter.com It is hard to believe. About 1000 of 1300 entries made 181.5k And don’t forget—Senators have the “franking” privilege. Send a lot of mail? Senators make out like bandits! And there are junkets. I never got to go on a junket, or a fact-finding mission in some place like Tahiti or the Bahamas, as an ALJ. So I’m not sure the perquisites and financial benefits accruing from one’s arduous service as a U.S. Senator pale in comparison to an ALJ’s salary. Senators can also retire at an earlier age than we can, and contribute more to the TSP, reportedly. Me, I only “just” retired. No complaints yet…although the “franking” privilege does sound pretty good, you know? Respectfully, Tony |
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Post by hamster on Aug 13, 2021 20:48:02 GMT -5
Both of you seem to have an unfounded fear of management or an admirable commitment to public service beyond that of what is required. ALJs do not lose their jobs involuntarily. Ask around it doesn't happen. You both have probably been around longer than me and you know that ALJs don't have production reqirements you have an expectation. You do not get performance ratings. If you're giving up leave that you are entitled to take, that's on you that's your admirable choice. Stanley Petraschuk was an ALJ at the Dover Hearing Office until 2017. He lost his job involuntarily, deservedly though, IMHO. Of course, for his last year he held zero hearings, and then went on admin leave for about another year and a half. So when you state, “ALJs do not lose their jobs involuntarily,” you are wrong. I’m sure there are other examples, as well. Respectfully, Tony |
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Post by Topperlaw on Aug 13, 2021 21:42:00 GMT -5
Teela Gatewood was involuntarily forced out. But she did continue on for several years as a senior attorney.
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Post by pumpkin on Sept 2, 2021 19:28:10 GMT -5
The topic of this thread made me curious.
Do retired ALJ is ever come back as claimants’ representatives? Some sort of professional reincarnation? Is there a non-compete or ethics clause that bans it?
I’ve never seen it personally in my little slice of the OHO world. Just wondering if it anyone has observed it in your neck of the woods.
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Post by jagvet on Sept 2, 2021 20:41:50 GMT -5
The topic of this thread made me curious. Do retired ALJ is ever come back as claimants’ representatives? Some sort of professional reincarnation? Is there a non-compete or ethics clause that bans it? I’ve never seen it personally in my little slice of the OHO world. Just wondering if it anyone has observed it in your neck of the woods. Off the top of my head, I am aware of two limitations that I have seen (there may be others). 1. An ALJ may not discuss future employment with a rep firm while serving as an ALJ. Any inquiries or discussions may not begin before the ALJ resigns or retires. 2. A former ALJ may not appear in the judge's old hearing office for a year after leaving. Some food for thought: It's probably unethical for a former ALJ to represent a claimant for whom he made a determination as ALJ (or maybe it's okay). Anyone know? |
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Post by natethegreat on Sept 3, 2021 8:43:24 GMT -5
The topic of this thread made me curious. Do retired ALJ is ever come back as claimants’ representatives? Some sort of professional reincarnation? Is there a non-compete or ethics clause that bans it? I’ve never seen it personally in my little slice of the OHO world. Just wondering if it anyone has observed it in your neck of the woods. While not terribly common, I have known of an ALJ or two who had done this. However, I don't believe in either case the ALJ had stuck around until retirement age and then took up rep work. They had left earlier on for one reason or another... |
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