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Post by golden on Apr 7, 2022 11:34:12 GMT -5
Circling back to ALJ hiring… Just a reminder for those of you who plan to throw your hat in the ring as soon as the announcement is posted: now is the time to update your résumé. Now is the time to research the actual month, day and year you graduated from law school. Know the actual month, day and year you were admitted to practice in each jurisdiction in which you are licensed. Start making a list of your references with names, addresses, email addresses, and best contact phone numbers. I don’t know what the process will look like compared to the OPM process. But i seem to recall I had to have references from supervisors, from judges, from opposing counsel, and personal references. You don’t want to scramble for your reference contact information when time is of the essence. Once the job announcement is posted, remember to carefully compare the job announcement to your résumé. Try to mirror your qualities and experiences with the knowledge, skills, and abilities contained in the job announcement. For example if the job announcement says requires “analytical skills” and “communication abilities”, I would suggest you figure out a way to add “analytical skills” and “communication abilities” to your résumé. Will this new process for hiring ALJs require submission of a writing sample? I don’t know. But it would be nice to have an updated, reviewed and easy to access brief writing sample saved on the computer. And for heaven sake’s, I do not mean a Social Security decision draft! Print it and ask a friend or relative you trust to proofread it for you. I find grammatical, spacing, spelling, and typographical errors easier to find on the printed page. Just some off-the-cuff thoughts while we are waiting for that announcement to post. Good luck to all those who intend to apply. ☘️ Just out of curiosity, for SSA insiders, what do you suggest they should use as an updated writing sample? Excellent question. |
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mbd
Full Member
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Post by mbd on Apr 7, 2022 11:38:09 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, for SSA insiders, what do you suggest they should use as an updated writing sample? Excellent question. I would also love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this question. |
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Post by hopefalj on Apr 7, 2022 13:08:04 GMT -5
I would also love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this question. I would be surprised if a writing sample is required, but I wouldn’t worry as much about having an updated writing sample as much as just having a writing sample available. I would be far more surprised if any attorney doesn’t have any such samples, either. Just go back through what you’ve used in the past, review it, get feedback, clean it up, etc. and have it ready to go just in case. With the number of transfer inquiries I’ve received (both from the 30 and outside of it) and have been reported on this board in the last few months, it really feels like they’re gearing up for a new hire. |
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Post by ssa on Apr 7, 2022 15:17:28 GMT -5
I would also love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this question. I would be surprised if a writing sample is required, but I wouldn’t worry as much about having an updated writing sample as much as just having a writing sample available. I would be far more surprised if any attorney doesn’t have any such samples, either. Just go back through what you’ve used in the past, review it, get feedback, clean it up, etc. and have it ready to go just in case. With the number of transfer inquiries I’ve received (both from the 30 and outside of it) and have been reported on this board in the last few months, it really feels like they’re gearing up for a new hire. It’s a legit question if they do require a writing sample and the recommendation is that sample not be a redacted SSA decision. For those with mostly or entirely SSA experience, any writing samples used in the past would likely involve law school writing/work. It seems almost juvenile to use something like that at this point in one’s career. |
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Post by cookie on Apr 7, 2022 16:33:26 GMT -5
I would be surprised if a writing sample is required, but I wouldn’t worry as much about having an updated writing sample as much as just having a writing sample available. I would be far more surprised if any attorney doesn’t have any such samples, either. Just go back through what you’ve used in the past, review it, get feedback, clean it up, etc. and have it ready to go just in case. With the number of transfer inquiries I’ve received (both from the 30 and outside of it) and have been reported on this board in the last few months, it really feels like they’re gearing up for a new hire. It’s a legit question if they do require a writing sample and the recommendation is that sample not be a redacted SSA decision. For those with mostly or entirely SSA experience, any writing samples used in the past would likely involve law school writing/work. It seems almost juvenile to use something like that at this point in one’s career. All I can tell you is that as I apply for other positions, I never considered drafting my own decision and redacting it to use. I do not feel good using memos that are more than 5-6 years old, but would not use a decision for the following reasons: 1. They are confidential. I don’t know how it would be possible to redact all potential identifying information. 2. They are full of boilerplate language. Are you going to redact or rewrite it? 3. They are long. Too long for a sample IMO. |
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Post by pumpkin on Apr 7, 2022 17:05:50 GMT -5
Writing Sample: find an issue that interests you but isn’t controversial, polarizing, or political. IRAC it. 3 pages feels right, no more than 5 pages for sure.
Whether an employer may rescind an employment offer made contingent on a “negative” drug screen where the putative employee’s drug screen was positive for marijuana in a state where recreational marijuana is legal.
Whether operation of a camera-equipped drone over residential property occupied by a target of a criminal investigation for the purpose of recording images not visible from the street constitutes a warrantless search prohibited by the 4th Amendment.
Find something interesting and make it yours.
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Post by christina on Apr 7, 2022 17:18:37 GMT -5
I would be surprised if a writing sample is required, but I wouldn’t worry as much about having an updated writing sample as much as just having a writing sample available. I would be far more surprised if any attorney doesn’t have any such samples, either. Just go back through what you’ve used in the past, review it, get feedback, clean it up, etc. and have it ready to go just in case. With the number of transfer inquiries I’ve received (both from the 30 and outside of it) and have been reported on this board in the last few months, it really feels like they’re gearing up for a new hire. It’s a legit question if they do require a writing sample and the recommendation is that sample not be a redacted SSA decision. For those with mostly or entirely SSA experience, any writing samples used in the past would likely involve law school writing/work. It seems almost juvenile to use something like that at this point in one’s career. So maybe a redacted internal memo that focuses solely on analyzing legal issues? |
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Post by jagvet on Apr 7, 2022 17:57:13 GMT -5
Writing Sample: find an issue that interests you but isn’t controversial, polarizing, or political. IRAC it. 3 pages feels right, no more than 5 pages for sure. Whether an employer may rescind an employment offer made contingent on a “negative” drug screen where the putative employee’s drug screen was positive for marijuana in a state where recreational marijuana is legal. Whether operation of a camera-equipped drone over residential property occupied by a target of a criminal investigation for the purpose of recording images not visible from the street constitutes a warrantless search prohibited by the 4th Amendment. Find something interesting and make it yours. I'm thinking about "Coffee Talk" (pronounced "Cawfee Tawk") with Linda Richman. "I'll give you a topic: ' Dr. Pepper was neither a doctor, nor a pepper. Discuss.'" I'm a little verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. Kudos to Mike Myers! |
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Post by joeybear on Apr 7, 2022 20:45:32 GMT -5
Writing Sample: find an issue that interests you but isn’t controversial, polarizing, or political. IRAC it. 3 pages feels right, no more than 5 pages for sure. Whether an employer may rescind an employment offer made contingent on a “negative” drug screen where the putative employee’s drug screen was positive for marijuana in a state where recreational marijuana is legal. Whether operation of a camera-equipped drone over residential property occupied by a target of a criminal investigation for the purpose of recording images not visible from the street constitutes a warrantless search prohibited by the 4th Amendment. Find something interesting and make it yours. I'm thinking about "Coffee Talk" (pronounced "Cawfee Tawk") with Linda Richman. "I'll give you a topic: ' Dr. Pepper was neither a doctor, nor a pepper. Discuss.'" I'm a little verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. Kudos to Mike Myers! My favorite was the holy Roman empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire... Discuss! |
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Post by superalj on Apr 7, 2022 21:15:20 GMT -5
I would go further than the bar number and have a letter of good standing ready to upload. I would get an updated letter of good standing every couple of months. For SSA insiders and a writing sample, take your best draft and redact all PII and FIT boilerplate leaving only the RFC, opinion evidence and any novel VE discussions. Lastly, apply immediately when the announcement comes out since they may close it if they receive too many applications. Those of us on the board that are ALJs are cheering for you!
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 8, 2022 9:25:28 GMT -5
I still believe in a small hire this year.
I think they may open and close the application pool in 1 day. I know that was done at least one time in the past. If I'm right you will have 24 hours to prepare and submit you stuff so if you don't have it ready you will miss the opening. This is probably not like shooting womp rats in beggars canyon.
The thing is vet preference is law and the inconvenience of not getting the job after multiple trips to DC is just life. I hope they figure out how to navigate the vet preference hurdle without causing litigation.
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Post by hopefalj on Apr 8, 2022 11:21:02 GMT -5
I would be surprised if a writing sample is required, but I wouldn’t worry as much about having an updated writing sample as much as just having a writing sample available. I would be far more surprised if any attorney doesn’t have any such samples, either. Just go back through what you’ve used in the past, review it, get feedback, clean it up, etc. and have it ready to go just in case. With the number of transfer inquiries I’ve received (both from the 30 and outside of it) and have been reported on this board in the last few months, it really feels like they’re gearing up for a new hire. It’s a legit question if they do require a writing sample and the recommendation is that sample not be a redacted SSA decision. For those with mostly or entirely SSA experience, any writing samples used in the past would likely involve law school writing/work. It seems almost juvenile to use something like that at this point in one’s career. A few things. One, I sincerely doubt a writing sample will be required. If OPM were to run things to create some sort of list in lieu of a register (less likely), they would simply have you pay your own way to go to DC to do a standardized writing test or administer an online version as they did with previous iterations of testing. It would be too hard to score hundreds or thousands of unrelated and non-standardized writing samples in a fair or efficient manner. Two, if SSA is solely in charge of hiring, they almost certainly won’t require a writing sample because they don’t want us writing to begin with and don’t really care whether we can write at all so long we are capable of electronically signing decisions. In the event they do require a writing sample, I would guess they’d also do a more standardized and word-limited version like they’ve done for internal promotions in the past for similar reasons as mentioned above. In the event I’m wrong about all of this and SSA does want some sort of independently drafted writing sample and you’re an insider with limited non-SSA writing experience, then there probably isn’t anything wrong with using a redacted decision or using writing from law school (provided you review/edit/redraft it). It isn’t going to matter, juvenile or not. All that’s going to matter for your chances of getting the job as an insider are your productivity as a writer and whether anyone in management (hearing office or region) has anything negative to say about you. |
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Post by nylawyer on Apr 8, 2022 12:12:51 GMT -5
I would think they would require a writing sample. Even if ALJs don't write decisions, they do have to edit them- in fact, they have to edit them at the speed of light if you do the math.
Besides, the optics of not requiring a writing sample are just awful. At that point you might as well put up a sign that says non-insiders need not apply.
And it's just great ammunition for those seeking to push hiring authority back to OPM- see, SSA didn't even bother getting writing samples!
(I'd have to double check, but my recollection is when I applied for one of the NHCs I was required to submit a writing sample. Big grain of salt on that, it was years ago, I may be confusing it with applying for an ALJ position in another agency).
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Post by jagvet on Apr 8, 2022 12:13:51 GMT -5
I have no special insight here on current procedures, but I tend to agree with @gaidin that there will be a short application period and you should be ready for it.
Do a writing sample now. If they don't ask for one, you have only wasted time, but you won't be scrambling and make mistakes. Get a cert of good standing now. Some states will do it instantly and others make you wait for a snail mail copy. I called one of my states that used snail mail, and the nice person mailed it that day with a forever stamp and I got it two days later.
Don't be cynical. Just comply. You really do want to be an ALJ, or you would not have stuck it out over these lean years. If it means finding coins in the couch and going to Washington, do it. Go a day or two early for the pay-your-own-way trips, but make time for a calm day before. I did a museum visit and a fancy dinner the night before the interview. I was very relaxed.
Good luck!
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Post by hopefalj on Apr 8, 2022 12:41:26 GMT -5
I would think they would require a writing sample. Even if ALJs don't write decisions, they do have to edit them- in fact, they have to edit them at the speed of light if you do the math. Besides, the optics of not requiring a writing sample are just awful. At that point you might as well put up a sign that says non-insiders need not apply. And it's just great ammunition for those seeking to push hiring authority back to OPM- see, SSA didn't even bother getting writing samples! (I'd have to double check, but my recollection is when I applied for one of the NHCs I was required to submit a writing sample. Big grain of salt on that, it was years ago, I may be confusing it with applying for an ALJ position in another agency). It was probably a statement about your experience in holding video hearings for the NHC. HOCALJ applicants have always had to submit a statement of interest as well. I don’t believe anything internally has required a true writing sample. DHHS didn’t require writing samples for their ALJ and AAJ positions open to the public in the recent past, so it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary (the DOL did require one for their openings). For anyone that wants to get a sense of what sorts of writing samples have been required in the past, the links to most of the open ALJ positions posted in the past still work to review the types of information they asked for (including the types of writing samples, which varied by agency). Just use the board search feature to find them and write away to your heart’s content if that’s what you’d like to do. |
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Post by christina on Apr 8, 2022 12:53:24 GMT -5
I have no special insight here on current procedures, but I tend to agree with @gaidin that there will be a short application period and you should be ready for it. Do a writing sample now. If they don't ask for one, you have only wasted time, but you won't be scrambling and make mistakes. Get a cert of good standing now. Some states will do it instantly and others make you wait for a snail mail copy. I called one of my states that used snail mail, and the nice person mailed it that day with a forever stamp and I got it two days later. Don't be cynical. Just comply. You really do want to be an ALJ, or you would not have stuck it out over these lean years. If it means finding coins in the couch and going to Washington, do it. Go a day or two early for the pay-your-own-way trips, but make time for a calm day before. I did a museum visit and a fancy dinner the night before the interview. I was very relaxed. Good luck! I have printed something off my state bar website showing I have active license on day I submit applications. That has gotten me past the first bureaucratic hurdle for fed jobs. Also include exact date u were licensed. It’s possible I was bumped once for ALJ app cause I had month and year but not exact date I became licensed. Of course it’s also possible my application sucked but in case it is the former, include the exact date. I agree it’s better to have writing sample on hand in case u need it And good luck 🍀 to all!!! |
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 9, 2022 0:09:17 GMT -5
I don't think they have required a writing sample in the years I have been paying attention to this process. I can't imagine wanting to read a few hundred writing samples and score them. I agree with others they don't really care how well we can write.
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Post by WallyGator on Apr 9, 2022 2:04:21 GMT -5
I have no idea if a writing sample would be required, but for insiders wanting to avoid using a redacted decision draft there are other options. One would be to write something similar to the old OHA Journal (?OHA Law Journal?) articles. We have had plenty of updates to regulations (medical evidence rules), rulings (SSR 18-3p, SSR 19-2p, SSR 19-4p, SSR 17-4p), and listings (12.00, 1.00) in the last five or ten years that would make great topics. You could write about vocational topics like limitations of the DOT, job number estimates, or even a specific jobs like surveillance system monitor. I also remember years ago and in a different region periodically receiving some type of newsletter from the region and/or OGC regarding court of appeals decisions in the relevant circuits. I have not seen this in a very long time, but writing on a recent court of appeals decision or relevant AR in your circuit could be another angle. I think a previous post might have suggested this would be a waste of time, but if there is a topic of particular interest to you, I would think with caseloads being more limited for many right now it could be a good time to ask about preparing a training on the topic for your office. That way the time spent researching might also be something for your PACS or 45.
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Post by rp on Apr 9, 2022 19:14:49 GMT -5
The class of 2017 didn’t have to submit a writing sample but we did have to write during testing. It was a judicial decision and it was graded for a score that was included in your overall score. I don’t know whether the testing will be brought back, but I can’t imagine that the Agency doesn’t care if someone can write. During our first 9 months we had to write decisions as part of our training. Also - I often write non-dib decisions myself. I think an SSA judge should be capable of writing judicial opinions and if there is no testing - then samples should be required. But that is just one person’s opinion. You may have another opinion and that is ok. 😀
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 9, 2022 23:26:21 GMT -5
The class of 2017 didn’t have to submit a writing sample but we did have to write during testing. It was a judicial decision and it was graded for a score that was included in your overall score. I don’t know whether the testing will be brought back, but I can’t imagine that the Agency doesn’t care if someone can write. During our first 9 months we had to write decisions as part of our training. Also - I often write non-dib decisions myself. I think an SSA judge should be capable of writing judicial opinions and if there is no testing - then samples should be required. But that is just one person’s opinion. You may have another opinion and that is ok. 😀 I think we need to know how to write and should be able to do it well. I just don't know that TPTB care. You are correct that we had to write a decision in DC. |
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